AV2/DVD5 and DTS - so good

Hi Roy

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I think it's simply of matter of greater information. DTS has more bits or mhz or whatever you see...

I've consistently found than same, DTS over DD every time.

Jay

Jay,

I believe you're correct. DTS is a less lossy algorithm.

BUT.....in blind listening tests I've read about when asked to pick a prefence DD has more than held it's own. When asked the same question in an open test DTS is the one normally picked.

Like Roy, esp. on music DVDs, I find the DTS almost always the preference......unless there's an LPCM track; in which case I listen to that via DVD5 -> Benchmark DAC1 -> Modded 42.5 => and have CD quality with pictures!

I think the s/pdif out with the DVD5 is really unsung feature of a great product. The one Naim disk spinner that can be used as just a transport.

Martin

Yep,

AC3 (DD)codec has a bitrate of around 380kbps (max 640kbps)

DTS has a bitrate of 1.54Mbps (max 4.096Mbps)

Its a personal choice, but DTS is my fav

All

I think your missing the point Roy is making. I have owned other Av kit and there is little difference between DTS and DD. However with the DVD5 AV2 the difference is huge.

So the question should be are the rest better with dd or poorer with DTS or something like that.

Oh i don't know much about bit rate mhz etc but I can remember reading years ago that DTS uses more information to the front three channels and has a poorer rear effects system were DD tries to balance the whole package. The example and test was the bruce wills film last man standing.

Neill

Neill,

speaking of my personal experience at home, I'll never forget the first time I put the AV2 into my system. It replaced a huge Harmon Kardon AV amp and the thing that really blew me away was how much better the Dolby Digital tracks sounded on the AV2 - Truly musical! Sure, DTS was better, but I no longer felt that DD was the diappointement it had always been before.

Richard

Richard,

I was listening to a concert DVD on Saturday, while doing odds and ends around the house. The AV2 kept on distirbing what I was doing as it was sounding so good that I had to consistently keep going in to the living room to sit down and watch the concert.

There was a big difference between the DD and DTS tracks on the same disc.

Roy.

Richard

I used a tag before and i don't think I have explained this right. But with the Tag there was not a big difference with dd and dts. However with the Naim fed with a DTS disc it just comes alive, its miles better with DTS and I think thats what Roy is getting at. Why Richard is it so much better with DTS compard with other brands were there is little difference with Naim Av2 DVD5 the sound is amazing.

Also going back to an old thread here I really feel that Naim has done made two excellent products in the AV2 and DVD5 and N-sub as mentioned on another post and with the 555 out the way whats next for us home cinema guys from Naim??. Are we going to see an AV3 I for one would buy it and I know at least another four who would upgrade right away.

So could you let us know Richard whats next with AV from Naim and any tech reason why Naim just sounds so dam good with DTS.

Neill

Neill,

I wish I could answer your question, I really do!

I'm not at liberty to give anything away on the AV product plans for the future. The AV2 and DVD5 have settled into production and doing very well. Any early bugs have been ironed out and dealers and customers alike seem to be enjoying our take on AV - i.e that it is designed like our 2 channel equipment, to excel at replaying music (after all, if it can do music well, then movies are a doddle...).

I think that the answer to your second question lies here too. By designing the products to excel with music we allowed the benefits of higher bit-rate formats such as DTS to really shine...

Richard

Richard

And shine it does, the only DVD player that has sounded better by a good bit is the Krell as mentioned on another post ( it costs almost double the price though).

I understand that you don't want to give away whats next lot of thiings to think about future sales DVD5 AV2 and I do think at the price point and even costing products a good bit more they offer very good value for money.

It would be nice however to know what Naims plans are it almost two years since the last news letter. I had a flash and it was only through posting here it came to light that the upgrade to the flash was finished call to dealer and £50 later its now updated.

I for one am at a stage where later this year I want to add to my system and if I knew a little of what Naim had planned I would stay with the brand my av2 is almost four years old now. Just like the two channel guys who find music important to them I love my films then my music I just don't have the room for two system so I need one that does it all well.

I read some of the posts on the 555 and how polar bear went all out to get a 555 back to the north pole. Its the same here a new sub and speaker could wait if an AV3 hit the shops. It would be nice to get a little out of Naim here I think you owe to your customers, as like I said there has been no news letter for so long.

So a little give would be nice Richard and it would get us guys on AV talking just like the buzz created on the two channel site at the thought of a new cdp or amp or new speakers does.

Neill

Ps A little bird has let slip that there will be no further software updates to the AV2 as its a little old now there words not mine

Neill,

I do agree that it would be nice to get an idea from Naim from an AV point of view what is out and round that corner for us.

Unfortunately, working for a manufacturer myself, I know how this stuff works. Richard, Adam et al know exactly what's being worked on and is under development, but there's no way it'll be discussed in an open forum such as this. As rightly or wrongly, plans change for whatever reason and end customers then feel that they have been misled by the manufacturer, when all they were trying to do was give them an idea of what was coming next.

I've just come out of a customer meeting myself where I've gone through a set of slides that are internal and from our product management. I however have know the guy for 6 years and trust him with that information. In a public forum however, I don't even let people know that I have information in the first place.

I'm sure if we got Richard or Adam in a pub and it was only us we could get some ideas out of them of what's coming and I'm sure they would also appreciate our opinions as customers of their's of what we'd like to see in upcoming products, but Salisbury's a bit of a trek.

What would I like to see ? Perhaps an AV3 with a better pre stage, or room eq. HDMI switching, maybe ?

Roy.

quote:

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
I used a tag before and i don't think I have explained this right. But with the Tag there was not a big difference with dd and dts.

Could just be the TAG Neill. I went through a succession of Sony and Pioneer DVD/recievers before the AV2 and DTS has always been clearly preferable to DD.

All the best.
Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Donaldson:
Unfortunately, working for a manufacturer myself, I know how this stuff works. Richard, Adam et al know exactly what's being worked on and is under development, but there's no way it'll be discussed in an open forum such as this.
Roy.

A couple of years ago I rang in and asked about DTS 9624. I was told that it was being worked on and would probably be a part of the AV2 flash upgrade. As we know it wasn't, but it was made clear that there were no guarantees.

I would prefer more openness. What is being currently looked at? Why have certain options been adopted and others discarded? Emphasising that just because algorithm A is being investigated does not mean it will find it's way into a product.

I suppose that Naim must also manage their relationships with the technology licence holders. If Naim decided that dts 9624, for instance, adds nothing to sound quality would/could they actually say so openly?

On the hardware front personally I don't want an AV3, I would like an upgrade path for the AV2.

Martin

Martin

The AV2 is now five years old and thats a long life for an AV product. I would like to see a way to upgrade your AV2 as well but sadly its been on the market for 5 years and would have been designed at least 12 months before that. So looks like we would have to look at an AV3 to get the upgrades we would like, is this on hold due to Blu-ray or Hd dvd, not sure I know there is take of a new DD format sound wise to go with these new products. so your guess is as good as mine as two where this leaves loyal Naim av customers.

All has went quite from naim on this subject eh

Neill

Neill,

I think we are stuck in the unfortunate position of a technical migration. Blu-ray and HD DVD haven't hit the market as of yet. We haven't fully got pinned down what sound formats are going to be on the discs, so more than likely there aren't off the shelf DSP processors for these either.

But, we all know our AV2's are 5 years odd old and can see other features in other products, such as automatic room-eq, HDMI switching, coming out.

For a company such as Naim, which we all forget in not a huge organisation such as the Sony, Pioneers etc., to bring out a new product which would be customer built would be brave of them.

And unless they can see a huge market for it, I suspect we will wait till the Bluray/HD thing settles down before getting the next AV processor from them out.

It is a shame, but hey well, I watched Stealth last night on my DVD5/AV2 and it truely rocked the house

Roy.

Roy

I agree the two products do sound and work well together very well however the AV2 now sounds a little slow and laboured in the movement of effects compard with others out there.

On the blu-ray hd dvd thing I don't think either will gain a foot hold so it would be nice to see Naim do something in the meantime.

The dsp chips used in the Av2 have surely now been replaced by faster better chipsets perhaps an upgrade to the chips to AV2 owners to keep us with the brand and as a stop gap until a full new av/preamp is developed would be a move on Naims part. Tag did something similar with the AV32r and developed different versions as have Meridian. Could be good.

Neill

quote:

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
I have owned other Av kit and there is little difference between DTS and DD.

I disagree; even on my (cheapskate) Pioneer 656/Yamaha E800(with Rega Mira as front L/R power amp) the difference between DTS and DD on a normal film is HUGE.

Better effects soundfield/panning, smoother decay, less gritty top end.

I can't even begin to think what an AV2 would sound like in DTS

Domfjbrown

On Dts it sounds amazing trust me on that, but if you have not heard the set up it sounds far far better might even be from far far away land.

Example my friend had a Denon amp and DVD player and was sick of me going on about how much better DTS was yet on his set up he could not hear it. Switch to AV2 DVD5 and he now knows exactly what I mean.

Get a demo or beg steel and borrow to get the pair and you will notice how open,faster, deeper the bass is how the effects seem to move more smothly and best of all how deep the sound stage is and how it draws you right into the heart of the movie.

Neill

Ps and its not to bad at spinning a cd either

Should DD become better, ie DD Plus or whatever it gets called with higher bitrates, in simplistic terms the AV2 will produce a better sound as if it had been upgraded.

Ok, it won't be at the new audio standard whatever that will be, but I bet it'll sound better than buying any other new proc. for some time to come.