Could I put two sets on nSATS on the surround output of the nVi?

No. Don't do it. Hooking two speakers to an output designed for one won't work well, and could damage your amp as it will present an unusual and possibly unstable load.

Have you got a n-Sub Jon ?

James

PS - the n-Vi has a suprising amount of poke. When i demoed mine in a large room with 5 large audiovector speakers i had to check the dealer hadn't wired in a bigger amp.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
No dont do it like that.
Just use the rear speaker sockets on the back of the n/VI, thats what they are there for.

Jon is already using those. What he was proposing was to hook up two pairs of nSats to them. That is, two speakers per rear output using bi-wire speaker cable. If he did it as he proposed he would be placing two loads in parallel thus severely lowering the impedance and thus causing all sorts of problems.

quote:

thus severely lowering the impedance and thus causing all sorts of problems.

Driving into 3 ohms - not really a problem.

Better off running a second Nsub for the rears if you are using one at all. I would think one would be fine, unless you have a huge room.
Nat

quote:

Originally posted by james n:

quote:

thus severely lowering the impedance and thus causing all sorts of problems.

Driving into 3 ohms - not really a problem.

"potentially causing all sorts of problems"? might be more accurate. I can't see that they would necessarily sound all that great, though. But hey, it's Jon's money. Go on mate, give it a whirl.

Thanks for your replies and I did glean some useful tips. I am using the full n-System so have the nSUB, but the nSATs as front speakers appear so disjointed with the rest.

I mean, the system is great for movies but I know there is more potential to be had from the front with an additional poweramp. I was informed by someone that the 250.2 would be overkill (is it??), so a NAP200 might fit the bill. But, linked to this and its increased power I could then put in larger front speakers, thus leaving a spare set of nSATS.

As I am only using half the cables to the rear surrounds and based on the nSATs being a small load, I thought that I could make the rears double the size by connecting two pairs of nSATS to the rear. Looks like I'm advised to have a redundant pair of nSATS instead.

Here is something more appropriate then: could I get the NAP200, connect it to the nVi for the front speakers and change my front nSATS for Naim Allaes??

That may be my direction considering what you guys have advised!

Jon

Trade the 2nd set of Nsats in - no point in using both pairs for rear duties. Have you played around with the sub to integrate it properly with the fronts. I'd also try running the sub from the high level inputs which is better for music than using the .1 out from the n-Vi. Have you got a picture of your new setup ?

James

You could try trading in your spare n-Sats for some Allaes driven by the nVi. It would be the cheapest option, so long as James has mentioned, you've already integrated the speakers and sub properly.

If you can't get a dealer round, it could well be worth you inviting someone from here similar kit to come round and give you some advice.

I think the best option is to get the nSats properly integrated with the nSub. I use these in a stereo system and can get a huge sound. Allaes will not necessarily be better. The simplest approach may be to optimise the system for 2.1 to get perfect sat/sub integration, then add the centre and surrounds.

Nigel

That is good advice, thanks guys.

I find there a complete imbalance when I listen to standard stereo and intend on putting the nSUB behind the sweetspot on the sofa so any bass is coming equi-distant from the front stereo speakers.

I'll see how that settles in first, but suspected that the Allaes (being floor standing) would be the equivalent sub at the front of the listening room?? I then suspected that getting another poweramp for them would raise their sound output quality??

Regards,

Jon

PS Am I correct thinking that the sound should all appear to come from the front nSATs (ncluding the deep sound of the bass)???

quote:

PS Am I correct thinking that the sound should all appear to come from the front nSATs (ncluding the deep sound of the bass)???

My response would be that you should not be able to hear any sound coming directly from the nSub - ie it should be as if you have only the two front speakers. In my room, the sofa is on the opposite wall to the sats, and the sub is against the wall to the left of the sofa. Even with the sub three feet from my ear, I cannot hear any sound fron it. And if you get the sats positioned properly, they will disappear into the wall of sound in a way that I have not been able to get larger speakers to do. I have the gain at 55 and crossover at 60Hz.

I know I have a CD5x and a 122/150, which is a bit better than the nVi, but with the sats and sub you should still be able to get a great sound - and one which satisfies - without the need to resort to Allaes and another amp. Get the best from what you have first - are you able to get the dealer round to asist in the setup?

Nigel

I agree with Nigel. The sub positioning should not matter much if you have the gain and x-over set-up right.

Having said that, I always liked to have my sub closer to speakers and idelally in-between them. I think this was largely psychological.

Jon - how are you feeding the sub - the .1 output from the n-Vi or high level.

The .1 output can use the n-Vi to set the crossover point and you leave the n-sub to set the low pass at 250Hz. In my system i found sub integration better using the high level outputs. Also make sure the speakers are set to Large in the setup.

James

Thanks for that advice, James as I connect my nSUB via the 0.1 output of the nVI.

I also have the speakers set to small, which I guessed they were due to their size.

Therefore I have the low pass automatically at 250Hz and the gain is usually around 80.

I'm just not sure what I'm looking for as I don't want the bass sound divorced from the nSAT sound.... but on the other hand the nSATs need some grunt to them.

I'll soon have a new listening room to set everything up in.

Thanks,
Jon

Jon - set the nSats to large otherwise the n-Vi will apply bass mix and divert a lot of the bass info to the .1 channel. I'd start with the n-Sub muted and the Speakers set to large. Position the n-sats and then bring the sub into play - with what you have at the moment with the speakers set to small and the n-sub gain quite high it will draw attention to itself and sound detatched. As you have 6 presets on the sub, set one for music, one for DVD. You can then use the filter / gain settings (say 60/60) to start with to get the levels correct for music and then save the setting. Select another for DVD with say a bit more gain for the LFE effects on Movies. When its integrated properly, the n-Sats just sound a lot bigger. There a quite a few threads on n-Sub setup so its worth a read.

James

Hi James,

I followed your advice and the nSats do sound so much bigger now with stereo music.

This is an amazing turn-a-round so thanks!!

I'm going to post another nVI question on this forum, but I'll make it a fresh thread.

Thanks again!

Jon

quote:

I followed your advice and the nSats do sound so much bigger now with stereo music.

This is an amazing turn-a-round so thanks!!

Great news Jon. You see - the sats and sub are really very good. Who needs Allaes??

Nigel

interesting advice about setting speakers for "large" on N-vi. My n-sats are set for small I think, fed from High level outputs (following James' advice a while back) and sound v good. But it took ages to achieve a good balance between sats and Sub. Augmented the system with a 250.2 and again took a while to balance but now sounds good - and now awaiting a 282 and hi-cap - here in a couple of days so can't wait to see the effect. But I'll certainly check if N-vi is set to large or small. Always something to tweak after checking the forum ...

I think some of the traditional AV settings can be confusing. 'Small' speakers in AV terms are very small satellites where there is not much output below 100Hz. The n-Sats are full range speakers and as such work best at this setting. I always find that getting the n-Sats positioned right is first priority - once these are in place then the sub can be adjusted (both in settings and position) to integrate with the n-Sats.

CP - once you have the 282, you can turn off the n-Vi front amp (a setting in the menu) which is worthwhile doing. The other 3 channels remain on to power the rears and centre.

James

Quite right James. If using speakers such as n-Sats, if you set these to "Small" in your processor/DVD/BluRay player the processor will then divert all LF material below the set cutoff frequency (usually 80 Hz) to the Sub, meaning additional processing.

With the surround speakers set to "Large" only the subsonic material encoded on the disc for the .1 channel goes to the sub, giving a more accurate and coherent sound.

True to an extent....Send all the signal to the n-SATS you like, but one thing is for sure, they certainly won't be reproducing the 30/40/50 even 60Hz stuff !

You can knock down the cutoff on the n-Vi to lower than 80Hz though, no ?

Thanks James for your constructive advice - I'll do that. And thanks Munch - I hope some of your other 19000 posts are more constructive. of course I read the book but as James suggests sometimes these things are not so clear. I find some of Naim's manuals less than crystal clear on some issues.

I also vaguely remember someone from Naim suggested the cut-off between sats and sub was recommended to be 66 Hz

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
True to an extent....Send all the signal to the n-SATS you like, but one thing is for sure, they certainly won't be reproducing the 30/40/50 even 60Hz stuff !

You can knock down the cutoff on the n-Vi to lower than 80Hz though, no ?

A while ago I threatened to start a topic on bass management in multichannel A/V systems Steve. I'm not going to do that yet!

Thing to bear in mind here is the way the disc itself has been mixed and encoded. To complicate things this of course varies from disc to disc...

Most of them seem to send anything under about 60-70Hz to the .1 channel & OK you might miss some LF content by setting the sats to Large, but IMO very, very little. Certainly, in my setup, after much messing about, I've found it definitely sounds better with sats at large.

It's another case of trying it in your own setup of course.