Upgrade advice required

sometimes, if you are happy with your system, best to leave it well alone. i should know -- recent upgrade changes to my system have not been smooth -- bad luck i guess.

...following a service of my Hi-Cap/NAP250 which has transformed the sound.

yap, a naim service is a very good idea for old kit (i gather the "half-life" is 10 years?).

as for your upgrade options, i would strongly advice that you change only one component at a time. this is from bitter experience. if you are now playing lots of CDs, then CD5 or better still CDX is a good start. i lived with CD2 for a long time and loved it. i gather the CDX is better than the CD2, so...

if you can get cdx second hand, and then get it serviced by naim, you may have enough change to upgrade your preamp to 72 or 102.

in general, your upgrade strategy is to work from the source towards the sinks.

let us know how you get on...

enjoy

ken

enjoy

ken

From my Flat Earth days I thought the response would be source first. My only reservation was an audition I had in the days of (from memory) CD3 vs Linn ? (mimik I think) v Meridian 206.

I was really disappointed - the CD3 was the best overall - the Meridian second and the Linn to my amazement sounded much worse then my Philips CD850.

I'm sure I'll be shot down here but I came to the conclusion that whilst both the CD3 & 206 were better than my current source the margin of improvement was suprisingly small (certainly compared to the difference you got spending the same money upgrading vinyl sources). I came to the conclusion that the CD format needed to mature a bit.

In the mean time I had fond memories of how good the active NAIM offerings sounded through a combination of Isobariks/SBLS/IBL. I did no more with that at the time finding that due to circumstances I spent more time listening to the autochanger in my car than my system at home.

Time moves on & I gather from the comments in this forum that a passive NAP500 easily beats the old reference of a six pack so maybe my hankering to put in place the stepping stones to go active is perhaps misplaced (hence the appeal of SBL's or newer equivalent - I know it's the wrong way round).

So based on the replies is the conclusion the best start is a CDX (I do prefer the look of the CD5 unfortunately)? Leading to what a XPS or an 82 later down the line?

Jeff

1. CDX
2. 82
3. XPS
4. CDS2
5. Super-Cap
6. 52
7. Active

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

i wouldnt give a damn about what this forum thinks. this forum is YOU. if you think CD doesnt sound good to you, then it doesnt, period. however, i would advice that you revisit and audition at CDX or even CDSII to give you an idea of where CD replay is compared to the last you remember.

Time moves on & I gather from the comments in this forum that a passive NAP500 easily beats the old reference of a six pack

yes, there have been comments to that effect. again, if you get a change to do the comparison yourself, i am sure we would be very interested to hear what you think. certainly, this is on my "hifi to do" list.

the roadmap mike h has laid out for you is a very good one. however, i giot very good results going active with a mere CD2 before i got the cdsii, and therefore you should assess, through appropriate dems, when you think its worthwile to go active. whatever route you take, you will obtain very good musical value out of the gear, so you really cannot lose...

enjoy

ken

ps: is you immediate budget still limited to about 2000 quid?

I don't know the Gale 302's, but your suggestion number 2 natrually has merit, especially in light of your vinyl front end (and my bias). Plump for an 82 and jump over the 102 idea. At the same time, if you could find a better cartridge than the K9 (a particularly attractive and simple task IMHO), you will be in good stead.

I know the Philips 850 well, and understand what you like about it. A CDX would be a large upgrade from this fine old (but somewhat polite) Philips player (I loved the way Jazz was portaryed on it, at the time) - you'll get (comparitively) musical fireworks. If you can't do it all, and are happy with the Gales for some time longer, an 82 and/or CDX (and ditch the K9) should keep you happy for a good while to come. What do you mean I just blew your budget? OK - if you still listen to loads of vinyl - 82 and a CD3 (as secondary source) despite your comments before, or 82 and CD2. And ditch the K9! (do you get the idea I'm not a fan?)

The latest SBL's are certainly an improvement over the first and second series of cabinets IMHO. Still, a good used pair of "MK II's" should be yours for approx £800-£950. You would need to hear for yourself to decide if it was worth the extra for the most recent SBL. I predict a fine match with your system - it's a matter of audition to establish if they'll suit your ears.

Let us know how you get on!

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

PS - Welcome!

The options presented to me based on my scenario were;

1) CDX
2) Linn Ikemi
3) CD5 (after badgering)

No other scenarios entetained.

Set eyes on the current 5 series - looks nice. Also (I guess) classic extruded casework (NAP/NAC/various Power Supplies - again looked great.

Somehow the CDX looked really ugly - It better sound good.

Whilst I go into it with a fair degree of NAIM & source is paramount bias is this really the only choices available these days (no other maker of competative equipment???) I'm thinking in terms of my last upgrade of NAC62/NAP90 (bought new)to NAC62/HICAP/NAP250 (s/h) gave me such a leap in performance for a modest sum - is it really down to choice of just 3 CD players & no other options?

Jeff

1. CD5
2. CD5 + HiCAP
3. CDX
4. Linn Ikemi

Without doubt the CDX was best - a fair bit better than CD5 + HiCAP. The Linn was strangely uninvolving - very detailed, very smooth but very boring. Whilst veiled in comparison my preference was for a CD5 over an Ikemi. Interestingly (to my suprise) my current CD source was far from humbled.

Adding a HiCAP to the CD5 really relaxed it & opened up the music but did not really come close to the CDX.

What should I do? Logic says I buy a CDX (which I'm prepared to do). However it does look ugly compared to the new 5 look. How likely do you thing it is that a new 'son of CDX' in the 5 look appears in the next 6 months or so? If there was a chance I would wait & improve my pre-amp/speakers in preparation.

Any views appreciated.

Jeff

Predicting the aesthetic situation is difficult. At the moment, all the clues point to a clear distinction between two lines of products (with the exception of the NAP 500).

The new boxes are better built - but to me they're bland and characterless. Similar to when MG released the MG F, a car that looked more like the Mazda and offered no clues to its heritage.

Maybe in the next 10 years, fashions will change for the better. Either that or the trend will be towards blank silver boxes

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I don't have any problem with the look of my cdx, but I think my 82 is, shall we say, the least attractive box - with its double bank of less than aesthetically pleasing switches.

Jeff you clearly disliked the look of the cdx before the dem and yet you clearly preferred it. Now you are worried it might be superceded by a 5 series style player.....are you trying to persuade yourself not to get one?

Actually I admire the rega cd players but I don't think I could not live with the looks.....although of course I don't have to as they don't compete with my current player.

Assume for a moment the cdx will be re-vamped, you say you listen mainly to cd so I won't comment on the numerous ways you might enhance your lp replay, so what do you improve instead?

You mention pre-amp and speakers based on what you've said previously you are looking at s/h 82 and sbls - great option, but you've still got to get your sources right.

Why not compromise and get a s/h cdx, then a s/h 82 - if the re-vamp happens you can purchase new and not lose out too much.

My view is that Mike Hanson nearly got it right in his second post in this thread when he gave an upgrade plan. I'd probably reverse 4 and 5 (but it's marginal) and I'd postpone 7 a bit.

Chris

Also, with a hicap, a 72 would be a major upgrade for very little relative cost. You could probably buy a CDS and 72 for the cost of a CDX.

Phil

Life takes funny turns when my lovely wife said to me tonight why settle for second best & get a CDSII/XPS (she is brilliant). I've never even heard an XPS - let alone a CDSII. This is a hard one for me after spending very little on my system in the last 8-10 years.

I spent some time listening to music this weekend whilst paying pool and to my mind it sounded great following the recent re-capping of my NAP250/Hi-CAP. The were areas I can improve on but it still sounded very musical & enjoyable.

Thanks Simon ref: using an 82 with a modest fron end - I will try & demo the difference & let you know.

Jeff

Suggestions.

1. Get a CDX second-hand for around £1500 or less. Then if you want to change for a CDS2 or new player you don't have to worrying about the CDX as you can resell, you might lose £100 on the transaction and a bit of time.

2. Alternatively, go listen to the CDS2, fall in love and buy, the rest of the system is good enough to appreciate (if not fully) the improvement over the CDX.

Matthew

I'm toying with the idea of getting a CD5 as a stopgap - any views on what a CD5 will go for s/h in a year or so's time?

In light of this how daft a thought is it that instead I get a FRAIM (my current stand is a soundstyle tripod)? Is anybody in a position to gauge where an upgrade to a FRAIM lies relative to equipment upgrades in my system?

My other thought is to get a pair of SBL's (new or s/h) accepting that my system will be fairly unbalanced for a while.

The last time I heard SBL's were in the 80's. I gather the current ones are better than those of old. If I go the s/h route what are the model revisions to look out for?

Jeff

enjoy

ken

Jeff

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

However I now find myself the proud owner of a s/h CDX care of this forums congenial Mick Parry. I know I said I would not buy it on the grounds of it's looks but I have to admit it is a fair cut above a CD5+Hi-Cap in sound quality.

Somehow buying it s/h allowed me to justify it to myself despite my reservations over the aesthetics (I think it improves it's looks by switching the display off).

I was only able to listen to it in my system today & I am delighted with how it sounds so far. I fear this may spark more purchases.......

Thanks for all the advice on this one.

Jeff

quote:

---

I fear this may spark more purchases.......

---

It doesn't have to. The key thing is to pay attention to setup. I visited a friend yesterday. His system is CDX/32.5/Hi/160/EposM15. The CDX is sitting on a Neauance board on Mana, the rest of the electronics are on regular Mana, and the speakers are on custom built platforms. He also has a dedicated spur for power.

Despite the "lowly" electronics, this system had one of the most pleasurable sounds I've heard in a very long time!

He has had terrible time with room effects (he has a bay window and hardwood floor), power problems, RFI, etc. Yet he's continued tweaking his setup, and now he's finally happy. He doubts that he'll every feel the desire to fiddle with it again. I have to admit, it's probably a system I could be satisfied with myself.

Therefore, pay attention to setup. It really makes a difference.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-