I Like Memory Playback? (J River)
Posted by: pcstockton on 13 September 2010
I have been reluctant to create this thread as I have never experienced a difference regarding sound quality between ANY media players. I have tried almost every widely used player that works with Windows.
- WMP
- iTunes
- Foobar
- Winamp
- J River
- Media Monkey
- Cplay
- XBMC
- XMPlay
- VLC
- Songbird
- VUPlayer (i think it was called)
etc....
None ever sounded any different to me, assuming bit perfection and everything else standardized. So I have always used Foobar as it allows for the ultimate in customization, the fastest performance with huge libraries, and the best UI imaginable.
For the last few weeks I have been trying J River Media Center after I read they now have "play from memory" as an option.
I have only ever tried this with Cplay, but its interface and reliance on cue files disqualified itself regardless of SQ. Honestly though even when I did use this for a few days I did not notice any improvements. If anything there was something I didn't like about it. Maybe it is the resampling you are forced to use... who knows?
In any event, after a full day with JRMC 15, I was noticing a bit more cohesiveness or tightness to the presentation. Also, the spaces in the music seemed quieter. Lastly, the "attack" on snares and other extremely dynamic sounds are quicker on the front end.
Please keep in mind that these differences are VERY subtle, but noticeable. The only thing I can chalk up the differences to would be the memory playback, which I did not de-select for a comparison. I will give that a shot this week.
At this point I am thinking of using JRMC as my reference player, i.e. when no one else is around.
I will continue to use Foobar when I have friends over (often daily). They can use the Remote app to select music on their own iPhones, it has lyrics which everyone loves, an easier ability to setup an ad hoc playlist (add to playback queue), and on screen bio etc... Plus it is simply lightning quick, much faster than JRMC.
The downsides to JRMC:
- Weak iPhone app
- While customizable, not as easily or as deeply as is offered by Foobar
- Slower than I would like, especially in "Theater View", which is the only way I will use it. (although it is faster than iTunes)
- No lyrics
- No on-screen wiki bio/artist picture
- Costs $50
- There are some idiosyncrasies I just cannot get past in "Regular View"
- Doesn't offer "Directory Structure" as a sorting method. This is fairly crucial to me as I search by "Artist View", and want to see the library sorted as I have them stored on my hard drive. For example, I have Funkadelic and Parliament in the same folder and therefore show up together in Foobar. Or people like Miles Davis, who might be tagged as Quintet, Quartet, with Gil Evans, with Coltrane etc..... I want all of my Miles albums shown together rather than 7 different artist entries.
The Upside to JRMC:
- It simply might sound a little better. ( i cannot believe I just wrote that)
- I haven't tried WAVs yet, but I have read it handles them well.
Give it a shot if you haven't tried it before.
I don't think anything is going to fully usurp Foobar for me in the near future, but I do hope someone develops a "play from memory" component for Foobar. That is, if that is reason I am enjoying the SQ of J River.
-Patrick
- WMP
- iTunes
- Foobar
- Winamp
- J River
- Media Monkey
- Cplay
- XBMC
- XMPlay
- VLC
- Songbird
- VUPlayer (i think it was called)
etc....
None ever sounded any different to me, assuming bit perfection and everything else standardized. So I have always used Foobar as it allows for the ultimate in customization, the fastest performance with huge libraries, and the best UI imaginable.
For the last few weeks I have been trying J River Media Center after I read they now have "play from memory" as an option.
I have only ever tried this with Cplay, but its interface and reliance on cue files disqualified itself regardless of SQ. Honestly though even when I did use this for a few days I did not notice any improvements. If anything there was something I didn't like about it. Maybe it is the resampling you are forced to use... who knows?
In any event, after a full day with JRMC 15, I was noticing a bit more cohesiveness or tightness to the presentation. Also, the spaces in the music seemed quieter. Lastly, the "attack" on snares and other extremely dynamic sounds are quicker on the front end.
Please keep in mind that these differences are VERY subtle, but noticeable. The only thing I can chalk up the differences to would be the memory playback, which I did not de-select for a comparison. I will give that a shot this week.
At this point I am thinking of using JRMC as my reference player, i.e. when no one else is around.
I will continue to use Foobar when I have friends over (often daily). They can use the Remote app to select music on their own iPhones, it has lyrics which everyone loves, an easier ability to setup an ad hoc playlist (add to playback queue), and on screen bio etc... Plus it is simply lightning quick, much faster than JRMC.
The downsides to JRMC:
- Weak iPhone app
- While customizable, not as easily or as deeply as is offered by Foobar
- Slower than I would like, especially in "Theater View", which is the only way I will use it. (although it is faster than iTunes)
- No lyrics
- No on-screen wiki bio/artist picture
- Costs $50
- There are some idiosyncrasies I just cannot get past in "Regular View"
- Doesn't offer "Directory Structure" as a sorting method. This is fairly crucial to me as I search by "Artist View", and want to see the library sorted as I have them stored on my hard drive. For example, I have Funkadelic and Parliament in the same folder and therefore show up together in Foobar. Or people like Miles Davis, who might be tagged as Quintet, Quartet, with Gil Evans, with Coltrane etc..... I want all of my Miles albums shown together rather than 7 different artist entries.
The Upside to JRMC:
- It simply might sound a little better. ( i cannot believe I just wrote that)
- I haven't tried WAVs yet, but I have read it handles them well.
Give it a shot if you haven't tried it before.
I don't think anything is going to fully usurp Foobar for me in the near future, but I do hope someone develops a "play from memory" component for Foobar. That is, if that is reason I am enjoying the SQ of J River.
-Patrick
quote:Assuming both sources are bit-correct, does this experience imply that there is a strength in JRMC, or a weakness somewhere else in the replay chain?
Like where for example? And yes obviously....
The weakness, as implied in my message, might be the lack of memory replay with Foobar.
Just as a note. Buffer at 8 on MM can be better if you need it a bit more etched and I'm not sure I wouldn't still prefer Foobar to MC. Maybe your inboard card interaction or OS has something to do with our differences of opinion. I've always foung MC a bit too glassy for me in every setup I've tried it in.
PC, I'm not saying that you're wrong and this stuff is opinion. Many use MC happily. Are you using tos or the break out cable (which always bugs me
)? Have you tried setting the Juli@ buffer to 512? ASIO?
PC, I'm not saying that you're wrong and this stuff is opinion. Many use MC happily. Are you using tos or the break out cable (which always bugs me
)? Have you tried setting the Juli@ buffer to 512? ASIO?Patrick,
I've been experimenting with memory playback and i'm not sure if i like it? (not that it matters to you of course)
I'll tell you why..
It certainly cleans everything up, the sound-stage seems a lot more controlled and detailed however i think (on my system anyway) that it loses the excitement? almost like it's turning it into something beautifully presented but very removed safe and clinical?
From Naim to Electrocompaniet?
loss of PRAT? or maybe i'm being a prat
I've been experimenting with memory playback and i'm not sure if i like it? (not that it matters to you of course
)I'll tell you why..
It certainly cleans everything up, the sound-stage seems a lot more controlled and detailed however i think (on my system anyway) that it loses the excitement? almost like it's turning it into something beautifully presented but very removed safe and clinical?
From Naim to Electrocompaniet?
loss of PRAT? or maybe i'm being a prat
In the Juli@ panel to see if you happen to prefer another buffer setting and yes, I defeated everything just to make sure I wasn't listening to features and any extra buffers that may come along.quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:PC, I'm not saying that you're wrong and this stuff is opinion. Many use MC happily. Are you using tos or the break out cable (which always bugs me Winker)? Have you tried setting the Juli@ buffer to 512? ASIO?
I am using toslink out to the nDAC. And yes using ASIO2.0
I dont know what buffer the Juli@ is set to, I will check later. I can say I have never had even one drop-out, click or pop with the Juli@.
Regarding buffer... do I set that in Foobar or in Juli@ settings?
Lastly, you mention above that you defeated gapless. Did you mean you defeated fade and whatnot, and set everything to gapless?
Thanks.
Patrick
This is going to sound crazy but we had a customer come in today with a Halide bridge/W7/MC arrangement for a DAC audition and I did some setup for him with the wasapi, memory play and feature settings. We tried adding fadeout settings back in to see if would eliminate a very minor tic at stop which he has with every DAC. It didn't but fast fade was the preferred sound of all the options.
We didn't try it for sonic reasons but it was noticable. Of course this was via a 500 series setup 
but still baffling. I'll listen again with my own xp laptop again, not assume everything out of the loop is best and see what I come up with.