"On its own, number 1" - Brighton school places by bingo...

All schools should be 'local' schools, they are an important part of the fabric of the local community. If initial selection was done geographically it would also help to minimise the 'school run', and in theory it should encourge the community to take an interest in it's schools.

It's all very sad. I was there in the rain in the protest.
My daughter in a couple of years will want to go to the school two minutes walk away, but under this new system, she could be sent anywhere in the city. It makes no difference that my son goes to the primary school that is part of, and on the grounds of, this main school. My youngest daughter will be at primary school and my son at juniors when my eldest tries to get into the senior school. They make no allowance for keeping the children together and I currently have a neighbour who has to send one child to junior school with us in the morning, while she takes her son to a school two miles in the opposite direction.
Brighton also has a policy to restrict traffic, so it's odd that they are causing children to go to school by car instead of walking to their local school. The thinking (Ha!!) is that the children in the rough estates get to go to schools in the better areas, and the children in the better areas get to go to the crap schools. It is divided here and the crap schools are really, really crap, and undersubscribed. Of course, the council would rather find a way to fill the crap school places rather than bother making the crap schools better.
Two weeks ago, an hour before the council vote, the Labour council sacked a councillor who was to vote against the new scheme and quickly replaced her with someone who was to vote Yes. The vote was won by a single bvote, but because of the "fix" it was challenged and made to be carried out again. Yesterday, the Green councillor who was to vote against was sacked an hour befoire the vote and replaced with a Yes voter. It was won again by a single vote.
My blood pressure has been rising steadily today and we are now considering leaving Brighton, even though we are moving house to be nearer our chosen school in mid-March.
I'm livid.

It's all here

There should be no "crap" schools. But, as Labour politicians from Blair down practice anything but what they preach, if you can afford private education (nothing wrong with that) or can afford to live in, or move to, an affluent area then why worry about the plebs - the people roundly castigated on this and other fora for their unworthy lifestyle?

Social engineering of the worst kind.

We still have selective education over here at the secondary level. Works quite well in terms of the results. The system is based on two transfer tests covering maths/english/science. Students are awarded grades A(25%), B1(5%), B2(5%), C1(5%), C2(5%) and D (55%). All schools publish their selection criteria in advance, some use the grades as the first filter some don't. Other criteria are listed in order such as siblings at the school, a parent attended teh school, distance to school. Most end with a lsit of the alphabet in scrambled order and pick using the first letter of the surname as the final filter.
The downside to this system is that it's possible to coach children for the test, unlike in the days of the verbal reasoning tests, so it favours those who can pay for coaching or assist their children themselves.

Regards,

Willy.

quote:

unlike in the days of the verbal reasoning tests

You don't really believe that you couldn't be coached in these do you?

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:

quote:

unlike in the days of the verbal reasoning tests

You don't really believe that you couldn't be coached in these do you?

Not to anywhere near the same extent as with the current transfer test. The science section in particular is pretty much regurgitation of a standard "sylabus". The maths test's a limited set of concepts. English will always remain a mystery to me!

My understanding of the verbal reasoning test was that it was a measure of IQ, the pass mark being 125. As I said I don't believe it's possible to coach to the same extent. I can't imagine coaching a 25% improvement in a IQ test score. Of course I could just be biased as I was rather good at them.

Currently there is talk of abolishing the transfer test (two more years to run). In typical "couldn't organise a reform in a House of Lords manner" they haven't yet decided what to do in it's absence which sort of guarantee's out and out corruption. MP/MLA/councillor/party offspring at the best schools no doubt. Tough luck to the bright kids in the sink estates.

Regards,


Willy.

Rasher - the only real world solution for you - apart from moving house to another LEA or going private is to get involved with the schools your kids are allocated to, join the PTA become a School Governor, support the staff to give them encouragement to aspire to greater things or get them sacked or moved on if they do not become motivated.

Motivate other motivateable parents to become active in the running of the school.

It transpires that the four schools targeted by parents are as fed up with the system as the rest of us, and are now all seriously considering Foundation status. This will remove control of placements from the Local Authority and Brighton & Hove will end up having to address the real issue; that of there not being enough schools in the centre of the city.
What amazes me is that parents complain about the schools available to their children in the centre of the city, but don't accept that it goes with the territory. Do they want to live among glass and steel skyrise offices, Sushi bars & clubs or in a family friendly area? Brighton 20 years ago was a very young place, but those young people haven't left and they've become middle-aged trendy designer fodder. They now have children but like to kid themselves that they still live the student life. so refuse to accept that they need to live in a more residential part of the city. Of course, no young people could ever afford to live here now anyway, so we have a real problem in Brighton. Surely any responsible parent should consider where they live regarding available schools. I know it's been the main issue with us.

Yep, it's complete yuppie hell. The North Laine in the 80's was chock full of second hand record shops and other, interesting, quirky little places. Now it's Covent Garden, with more Starbuck's than you could shake a big stick at.
I used to LOVE Brighton. There was nowhere else in the country like it. Now I wouldn't think twice about moving elsewhere.

If you get a winning ticket then what's the trade-in value? There must be an opportunity for entrepreneurial black marketeers.

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced about the value of the modern education system in England and Wales - it's shame, but with standards so variable from one school to another, I think it has become something of a lottery.

Perhaps being educated at home would be better - well at least for those that can.

Rasher, just do all you can to get your daughter in to the best school you can - I'm sure you will. Derek's ideas seem a good way to me, even though I agree it should not be necessary in a better world.

It's been tried already I'm afraid. In one case the school receptionist's daughter didn't get in, even though they were in the catchment area. This was in the junior school.

Rasher and Malky, is Brighton really so bad? I intend to move out of London soon and had always thought of Brighton as a good place to move to.

Bath would be another possibility.

G

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Rasher and Malky, is Brighton really so bad? I intend to move out of London soon and had always thought of Brighton as a good place to move to.

Bath would be another possibility.

G

I'd be very cautious about Bath - it is always crowded and just getting around the place is hard work in the tourist season. Nice place though.

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Rasher and Malky, is Brighton really so bad?

Depends what you are looking for. Brighton used to be have a genuine alternative, even quite bohemian atmosphere.
Now the property developers and big chains have moved in and destroyed much of what made it a unique town. There used to be loads of independent shops, great pubs and good live music venues. Now it's all Starbucks and chain pubs. By all means move here if you don't mind pretension and have a hundred grand spare for a glorified bedsit.

Brighton's far too busy - Worthing is much nicer, and only 20 mins from Brighton on the train.

Emsworth, where we live now, is better still - too far for London commuters to live!!

Again, the trouble with schools here is that a lot of the middle class send their childern private, thus reducing the pressure on LEA schools to raise standards. Personally, I'd remove all parental choice and make the local school the default. I'd also legislate to close all private schools, level the playing field and let Darwinian selection rule, but that's another matter!!

Nigel

Graham, I wouldn't put you off Brighton. It really is a great place with lots to do for everyone, and I'd still have trouble finding somewhere better. We have an old theatre (Hippodrome) that for 30 years has been a bingo hall. It has a history and has staged Charlie Chaplin, Judy Garland through to the Beatles (twice) and the Stones in the early 60's. Among all the music venues in Brighton, the Hippodrome is now being turned back into a major music venue in the vein of the Brixton Academy. We have the Brighton Festival each year which is music and arts. It is the drug capital of the UK here on the downside, so be aware if bringing in teenagers, but on the whole, there are few places better.
I'm sure Malky would eventually agree that although it pisses us off sometimes, it isn't a bad place. Probably our age.

Re Nigel (HH)'s comment.

If the private schools were closed the extra pupils hitting the state sector would not be too comfortable, they would not bring with them any more money, because the parents have already paid for the state education that has not been taken up.

My wife - who was a teacher for many years in the state sector always recommended to friends that had bred who were considering private education that they send their offspring to the state school and then support their kids by ensuring that the kids had attention, support to go on school trips, parental support for the school and staff. So in fact spending what they would have done on school fees on adding value to the experience the kids had in the state education system.

It's all very well suggesting that we close the private schools and send everyone to the state schools. Problem is that the state is failing to provide an adequate standard of schooling for those already in the sector. There will always be those who send their kids to private schools but I believe a significant number have been driven into private schooling by the failure of the state sector.

Just a couple of weeks ago my partner told me of a colleague in work who had to move her daughter to a private school. The child has some learning difficulties and was being mercilessly bullied. When her mother phoned to ask to meet the head she was told it would be at least two weeks. She explained the circumstances and was told it would still be two weeks. State school 0 Private school 1.

Closing the private schools is treating the symptom not the problem.

Regards,

Willy.

quote:

Problem is that the state is failing to provide an adequate standard of schooling for those already in the sector

What utter bollocks.
I have 2 sons at university. One got 2 As and a B at A level and is at Leeds. The second got 2 As and a B and is at Durham. All from a Comprehensive school.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:

quote:

Problem is that the state is failing to provide an adequate standard of schooling for those already in the sector

What utter bollocks.
I have 2 sons at university. One got 2 As and a B at A level and is at Leeds. The second got 2 As and a B and is at Durham. All from a Comprehensive school.

Bob,
It's great that this worked out ok for you and your children - and I hope it will be for mine.

Isn't the general thrust of what people on this thread are saying is that this is what we're all hoping?

The problem is that, far from being "utter bollocks", the reality is that many people are very poorly served by the current provision.

I think that now, parents take a much greater interest in the education system and are better informed. I went to the worst imaginable council estate school where we were not allowed to do O-Levels. 4 pupils per year were "chosen" to attempt O-levels. I had to go to the local college oFEd to get 8 O-levels the following year, which I passed. My school had written me off.
I did ask my mother once why she sent me to such a crap school and she said she was completely unaware of what the schools were like, but it probably wouldn't have made any difference anyway as it was a rough place generally.
I think Bob may be right that state schools now are fantastic in comparison, and all this fuss wouldn't be happening if we weren't after state schools that are particularly outstanding.

Educational research has shown that it actually makes very little difference to their achievement (purely in terms of exam success - which is clearly not the be all and end all)which school children attend. What does make the difference is parental involvement.

I always console myself with this as my eldest son does to a secondary with a rather dubious reputation. Lots of people we know have moved house and pretended to be churchgoers (attending for long enough to get a vicar's reference) in order to get into the local C of E secondary which is of course non-selective. Non-selective, my arse!

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
Brighton's far too busy - Worthing is much nicer, and only 20 mins from Brighton on the train.
Nigel

I used to live in Worthing (Broadwater) - very nice place except for the seaweed, which may have been sorted by now. Very low rates (it was pre-Poll Tax when I was there) and it made me feel much younger for some reason.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:

quote:

Problem is that the state is failing to provide an adequate standard of schooling for those already in the sector

What utter bollocks.
I have 2 sons at university. One got 2 As and a B at A level and is at Leeds. The second got 2 As and a B and is at Durham. All from a Comprehensive school.

I meant to say "that the state is failing to provide an adequate standard of schooling for ALL those already in the sector"

There are some very good schools in the state sector, including the two that my children are currently at, but equally well there are some very bad ones. Where parents have no choice but to send their children to one of the failing schools I can understand their motivation for sending their children to private schools.

For my first two years of secondary education I was in a dreadful school. Discipline was optional, teaching standards were poor and my grades were in a steady decline. In 3rd year I moved, along with all my class, to a newly built Grammar school. The rot was arrested and I finished top of my year. It's clear to me that the school can, and in my case clearly did, have an effect on the outcome.

Regards,

Willy.

PS The failing school I attended for 2 years recently made the news over here, happy slapping video's filmed in the playground. If that were the only choice for my children I'd be ebaying my Naim and checking out the private options.