Christ, I think I like Classical!

Well, I must say that your beginning wish list is quite a good one. I could add many titles, but will refrain from doing so until you have a chance to absorb some of the titles. I will offer a few alternatives and comments, though:

Your Schubert selections are splendid and should be bought post-haste.

For Bartok, the Takacs really are the way to go for the string quartets, but I would suggest considering Ivan Fischer’s recording of the Concerto. It is in better sound and is full of myriad orchestral details that I have not heard so boldly played in any other performance. The Reiner is great, but the Fischer is the better place to start. Of course, if you want the Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, you get that with the Reiner.

For The Rite of Spring, Boulez’s version may not be the best way to start. While there are many fine things in the recording, it is not quite wild enough. Antal Dorati’s Mercury recording is fiercer, and may be better. Boulez’s Sony recording is also a little wilder. For sheer sonic splendor, you could try Daniel Barenboim’s Teldec recording. (The best recording is, of course, Stravinsky’s 1940 version, but the sound is not so hot.)

You may want to take a look at Berkshire Record outlet (www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com) in the next few days. They received a huge number of DG, Philips, and Decca recordings the past few weeks, and they are all at bargain prices. (Wait until at least 6:00 PM Pacific time to make sure you hit the Thursday update.)

Classical music can indeed be an all-consuming diversion. There’s so much to consider, and so many interpretations possible. Your list is a good start



"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

quote:

---

I intend to scrub the list a bit more to make 5-10 recordings a priority

---

Ludwig,

The Emerson String Quartet have an inexpensive(but good quality) series that includes the very fine Debussy and Ravel Quartets that Nick mentioned plus some others (Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Brahms, Schumann). It's called "The Great Romantic Quartets" and it's an excellent chamber music starter.

The Bartok Q.'s are some of my all-time favorites, but be advised that some of them (3,4,5) take time to get into.

IMVHO, Mozart's symphonies are far from his finest work -- keep in mind that he was churning these things out for money. Try them, but don't dismiss Mozart if you feel underwhelmed by them. His concerti are generally of much higher quality.

The great 20th C. east european composers are largely absent from your list (only Bartok and, by a thin thread, Stravinsky count). That's fine for now, but I personally have found (FWIW)
some of the best classical music satisfaction to come from the likes of Shostakovich, Schnittke, Penderecki, and other 20th. C. composers.

Todd,
Thanks for that link.

Eric

Thanks for the input so far.

Eric- Can you recommend a good way to get a sampling of the Eastern European composers you mentiond?

I hope people have an appreciation for how intimidating it is starting out in classical music. It seems to me the best way is to buy a variety of budget music, take your time getting to know it, choose favorites, and go from there.

I'm leaning towards Bartok string quartets, Rite of Spring, Bolero, Beethoven piano sonatas, Debussy and Ravel string quartets combo CD, Messiah, Mozart violin concertos, and Schubert to begin.

Keep the comments coming...

welcome to the club

Your list looks pretty good, and that double cd of Mozart symphonies is just fine; add a sprinkling of piano concertos, the string quintets (Philips doubles) and the violin ctos and you'll do fine.

Russian music:

Prokofiev's two violin concertos, often coupled with Stravinsky's lovely concerto (Chung / Solti)

Prokofiev piano concert no 2 and 3 (Ashkenazy / Solti)

Shostakovich symphonies 5, 6, 7 , 8 (Haitink)

Shostakovich; string quartets

Stravinsky: Petrushka, Apollo, Orpheus

Tchaikovksy: violin cto; symphony nr 4

Other places and times:

Sibelius: violin concerto

Nielsen: symphony nr 4 and 5

Ravel piano concertos, orchestral works (Haitink philips double)

Herman

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ludwig:
I was looking for somewhat broad coverage of the genre (but no opera).

---

I started to get into classical music with the help of an excellent series of videos from my town's library. click here

To my amazement, I started to enjoy opera too. My first reaction to this was, "OK, I can see that Mozart is pretty cool, but I'm not going anywhere near Wagner." You've guessed, of course, that this story ends with me enjoying Wagner. No one was more surprised than I was.

So happy trails - and keep an open mind.

Davie

Maybe I should have started a new thread, but thought it approapriate because of knowing how others decide where to start or what to listen to (buy) next.

The problem I've found (and still do) is that there are so many choices, not just composer and their works, but all the intrepetations too. I mean, look how prolific Bach and Haydn were - I find this daunting enough!

So, rather than follow any "essential" starter library, what I decided to do was -
a) go to more live concerts (average of 10 a year)
b) listen to a classical station in the morning as I wake-up

For me, I've found this to be easily the best way in deciding what to buy next. I hear pieces that wouldn't necessarily make the list of "essential" classical works but still appeal to me. For example, last year I heard Beethoven's C-sharp Minor Quartet, Op. 131, arranged for string orchestra live and thought it wonderful. You see, I hadn't as yet even heard the string quartet in it's original form.

So, my questions -
How do others decide what to hear next - continue to go down the list of some suggested library of essentials, recommendations from friends, radio or what?

When do you decide to listen to another interpretation of a work rather than something else from same or other composer (I only have a handful of recordings of the same work, more by accident than design?)


tim

quote:

---

Eric- Can you recommend a good way to get a sampling of the Eastern European composers you mentiond?

---

Ludwig,

Herm's Russian composer suggestions are all good starters. The Schos. quartets (any) and symphonies (after #4) are all excellent and fairly accessible.

I personally tend to find Prokofiev a bit harder to get into, and so would suggest Shos. first, although this might just be me.

Eric

Fredrik,
I agree with most of you write, but disagree about the short chunks. If it's a means to an end, where's the harm? I mean, I listen to a chunk (movement) to determine that, yes this requires further exploration. I'll then go out, buy it and see what the entire piece is like.

Cheers
tim

Chunks,

I have a K-Tel '100 best classical tunes' on a double LP.

At least it stops you getting bored of each piece, and who has the time to listen to a whole Symphony?

DS

It just so happens I don't have a clue, but posts like the above make me kind of curious. Does this happen on pop / rock threads too, guys just posting to let us know they don't give a shit? I wonder why. Classical doesn't seem to pose a real threat.

BTW In russian music I forgot Rachmaninov - his solo Preludes, his symphonies 2 and 3; piano ctos 2-4.

Herman

There's a lot to digest here.

Eric brought an important issue to mind. Which titles in my original post are best-suited for a beginner (i.e., accessible)?

Thanks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Slater:
...who has the time to listen to a whole Symphony?

---

An ironic question, from someone who buys hundreds of albums per week.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ludwig:
Which titles in my original post are best-suited for a beginner (i.e., accessible)?

---

As another beginner, I'd recommend a vaguely chronological approach - Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert (and some Mendelssohn, Berlioz and Tchaikovsky). The classical/romantic composers wrote good tunes; what could be more accessible than that?

Davie

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ludwig:
Which titles in my original post are best-suited for a beginner (i.e., accessible)?

---

Well, that would depends on what floats any particular beginner's boat. Too often it is thought beginners best start with, say, Dvorak's New World Symphony, Tchaikovksy's Suites, some tinkly Chopinesque piano music &c. However you mentioned Bartok and Ives string quartets in your opening portfolio, so perhaps your taste is for something a little meatier, so as not to get bored. That's why listening to your local college classic FM is not a bad idea as a way to find out what tickles you.

Herman

Ludwig - alongside your first few purchases, whatever they may be, I would suggest buying a couple of books.

Firstly, some sort of 'Companion To Classical Music' - don't know what's around at the moment, esp. in the States, but Faber used to do a pretty good one. Leafing through a few should give you an idea of what would suit you best, although I would aim for the comprehensive rather than anything aimed at 'a beginner', and an alphabetical arrangement might not be as helpful as a broad historical sweep. Everything becomes much more interesting if you can put it into context, and knowing something about a composer and their ideas makes it easier to 'listen around' a particular work, like you would with favourite authors.

Secondly, I'd invest in the Penguin Guide To Compact Discs. There used to be a seperate Guide to Bargain Compact Discs which would have been perfect, but this seems to have now been incorporated into the main work [bad idea, as a book can only be so thick before becoming unusable, so lots of interesting stuff has dropped out and it's less comprehensive than before]. I'm sure many forum contributors would disagree with some of the recommendations, but on the whole the writers are basically sensible if sometimes a bit sonically quaint. e.g. they used to champion pre-recorded cassettes over vinyl [hatred of clicks], and currently have a rather odd view of DVD's - think eccentric but knowledgeable batchelor uncles with seed cake and sherry permeated prose.

The glory of this tome is that it enables you to grasp the fact that it will be a long time before you ever need to pay full price for the best recording of a work, while also giving instant access to most of the entire range of a composer's recorded output.

Happiness for me is sitting with a large gin & tonic listening to, say, a bit of early Verdi with this and the Viking Guide to Opera reading about all the other exciting things I might see and buy. Opera, BTW, is the dark deviant S&M underbelly of classical music, which everyone says is not for them .... it will get you in the end though, make no mistake about it - just look at Todd. Currently, he's holding out against Italian opera with a will, but dangerously he's admitted a slight admiration for Bellini, so I'm afraid now all it will take is a duet from Andrea Chernier at an emotionally vulnerable moment, and sadly, all will be lost and the spectral collective bosom of a thousand divas will crush him like an insect. It's a dangerous world this classical music, so do be careful.

Oh, my top tip for approaching any new stuff it to keep it in the car for a bit - it will gradually seep into your consciousness, then you can appreciate it properly at home.

throb

But I suspect every beginners' / dummies guide would tell Ludwig to stay away from Bartok string quartets - and apparently he's interested in them.

It's the same thing as telling folks who enquire here about getting some serious equipment to get a copy of HiFiChoice.

Herman

(Throb you may have a PT)

A note of clarification- my initial list was (mostly) derived from first referring to a post by Todd A from long ago, and then sampling from Amazon. Keep in mind samples are typically < 1 minute per track, so possibly not at all representative. It wasn't derived by extensive listening on the radio or elsewhere. Perhaps a dumb way to start, but there's so much out there I had to start somehow. So, for example, Bartok's string quartets are on the list because I like strings, not because I can claim to know a damn thing about Bartok.

Again, I'd like to start off with 10 or so well-chosen CD's and spend some time (likely to be months before I get around to repeated listens!) getting to know them, and then make future choices based on that.

(Those on my list I know I like are Bolero, Rite of Spring, Schubert (my "favorite", in my limited experience), Beethoven pianos, Messiah, and well, I think I've just realized the first few I should buy. )

[This message was edited by Ludwig on SATURDAY 27 September 2003 at 18:40.]

Well, Ludwig, I say start with what you know you like and branch out from there. Schubert is an excellent early favorite, to be sure. Indeed, you may very well never find a composer you like more.

The reason I recommend Bartok so highly is because he was the clincher that got me into classical music. First his two Rhapsodies for violin and orchestra, then his Concerto for Orchestra, and then his string quartets: I was hooked. If you like rock music, I cannot imagine not liking the fourth string quartet.

As to books, consider Jan Swafford's The Vintage Guide to Classical Music. It is very well written, opinionated, and exceptionally informative. Of course some of his opinions are wrong, but it's a good read. Also consider a Gramophone guide to CDs. Try to get an old 1998 or 1999 copy, when they still offered gobs of alternatives to the primary receommendations. The newer format is less compelling.

quote:

---

Originally posted by throbnorth:
[J]ust look at Todd. Currently, he's holding out against Italian opera with a will, but dangerously he's admitted a slight admiration for Bellini, so I'm afraid now all it will take is a duet from Andrea Chernier at an emotionally vulnerable moment, and sadly, all will be lost and the spectral collective bosom of a thousand divas will crush him like an insect. It's a dangerous world this classical music, so do be careful.

---

Never. I will never succumb to Italian opera! Never, I tell you. Well, maybe some Verdi and Bellini, but that's it!



"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

quote:

---

Originally posted by Todd Arola:
I will never succumb to Italian opera! Never, I tell you.

---

You're right, Throb. It's bound to happen. You can tell by the way Todd is shouting to keep those mambo operatic bosoms away.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Alves:
go http://www.activesbl.plus.com/RecordIndex.htm if you want to see my entire record collection.

---

Gee, Tom, it must have taken you forever to make that catalogue, but it is kind of neat to look at all those pictures, and see some old stuff, like the original Colin Davis Sibelius.

Herman

Wow, Tom... That is truly a labour of love. Thanks for letting us in on it.

Davie

'The New Guide to Classical Music' by Jan Swafford is a useful place to start and an entertaining read to boot.

STOP PRESS! Have just searched Amazon and they say 'limited availability' re. the above, but they have 'The Vintage Guide to Classical Music' by same chap. Looks like a different edition of the same book.

Dan

First point. My Classical music collection numbers approximately 15 so bear that in mind when reading below.


Ludwig. Have you seen the film Amadeus, If not I would highly recomend it, it is an excellent film and is filled with marvelous Music by Mozart (forget about how historically accurate it is or isn't). The soundtrack to this film is also a fine introduction to Mozart and allowed me to buy several Mozart Works including Symphonies, Piano Concertos and Opera's.

I've got to admit I'm finding other composers somewhat more difficult.

I've not seen Amadeus. I've not seen anything since Matrix II. It was that bad.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I'll consider my options, and go for 5-10 CD's to take my time with over the Winter.

Please report your findings. I'm curious.