Vinyl vs Digital???

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Regarding the whole album art argument... When you rip the vinyl, you can easily scan all of the art. You can look at it all you want on your HDTV/Lappy/Monitor etc...

Never in a million years on my estate. Album art, holding it, appreciating it, thumbing it...is equally as important as the sonic fidelity. It's very much part of my love of vinyl.

I like both sources (LP and CD), but I will never settle for some ethereal download with virtual artwork...it just misses out on the joy of collecting music (imo)...some won't give a monkeys and will be happy with stuff of the interweb, nowt wrong with that either.

Jethro Tull - Stand Up, 'pop up' LP, Deutsche Grammophon stunning covers and Orb's Orbvs Terrarvm see thru sleeve. How can you replace stuff like that with a jpeg?

[/QUOTE]
...it just misses out on the joy of collecting music (imo)...[/QUOTE]

I agree 100000000% with this!, exactly my feeling.

Plus, downloading and file sharing makes music not a "collectors" item, it looses value... its like over printing any currency... its valueless (and thats happening right now)

Vinyl devotees appreciate MUSIC.

Digital devotees appreciate SOUND.

quote:

Originally posted by fatcat:
Vinyl devotees appreciate MUSIC.

Digital devotees appreciate SOUND.

Actually, it's the other way around. The majority of the world's population listens to digitized music today. Only a comparative few spin vinyl. Why...because of the sound.

The majority can't hear properly, is another way of looking at it.

quote:

Originally posted by dave simpson:

quote:

Originally posted by fatcat:
Vinyl devotees appreciate MUSIC.

Digital devotees appreciate SOUND.

Actually, it's the other way around. The majority of the world's population listens to digitized music today. Only a comparative few spin vinyl. Why...because of the sound.

I think is VERY well put.. so one vote for:
Vinyl devotees appreciate MUSIC.
Digital devotees appreciate SOUND

Music is much more than sound.

Take a listen to a Well Tempered Amadeus with any of the Dynavector MC's, then go home and cry all over your CD players, CDS3 & 555CD's included. Such a shame lots of modern music is only available on the much much less good media, a bit like my top of the range digital Canon camera, horrible next to a piece of 6x7cm film from my Mamiya 7.

I do miss the ritual of The Hunt For Records. CD hunting just isn't quite the same.

I think much of it was the experience though. Shopping with my wife and friends in musty old record shops and flea market stalls combined with incredible album cover artwork which jumped from the bins was an experience I'll always treasure. I believe it represented a simpler time in my life as well.

With all that said, I still prefer my cd player with the greater availability, condition and variety of recorded music on CDs. Personally, I find nothing wanting in the sound. In fact, I prefer it over my LP-12s.

regards,

dave

I think these debates often become too polarised - vinyl's best vs Digital's more convenient etc etc etc...

Each medium has its pro's and con's, but it's far more complex a debate than Vinyl=Music, Digital=Sound; just listen to a 24bit 96Khz FLAC and let your ears decide. I agree that a well mastered analogue all the way vinyl recording will capture more of the finer details and subtlety of the music, but digital has a lower noise floor and greater dynamic range which is also an important factor in the overall fidelity and therefore degree of engagement in the music.

I agree there is a risk in uncontrolled low quality downloads diminishing the value, but I would happly continue to buy spinning silver disks if someone would stick hi-def recordings on them.

I do miss the album art though...

quote:

Originally posted by Gonzalikus:
it looses value... its like over printing any currency... its valueless...

Id be more than happy to give you 95 cents on the dollar for all your "valueless" extra money.

It's a bit like debating the merits of religions...to each his/her own.

In my system and others I've heard, I prefer to listen to vinyl, it just sounds better, more enjoyable. All that talk of surface noise, pitch etc is lost on me (within reason). Question is 'am I enjoying it'? I do own a considerable amount of cd's and continue to buy them to get a)bargains and b)new music. I've got a Rega cd player which I chose (in preference to a Naim) because I enjoyed it more.

If the time comes when cd or LPs are no longer available, I might consider downloads, but I doubt it. My cd's and LPs tell a story of my life, how my tastes have matured, immatured etc etc, tales of good times, bad times. I can never imagine my MacBook fulfilling that role.

I do of course own an iPod so I've got no problem with the quality of the media, it's just not really the point in my world.

It is being missed in the above examples that "Digital File" does not always entail "Downloaded", and therefore shit bitrate.

It seems as though the blue hairs are comparing their fully spec'd LP12 with some 192s from iTunes playing from their iPod. Should I compare my Technics 1200 to a CD555 and come to the opposite conclusion?

Both formats are incredible at their best and dreadful when at their worst. To completely eschew either out of principle seems rather myopic.

I understand having a preference, but the "X vs Y" argument is so very boring.

Agreed Munch.

It is interesting (OK, not really), that a lot of vinyl lovers seem to have a complete disdain for digi.

Whereas, most digi lovers dont have a problem with, and actually enjoy, a little anal.

-patrick

I too find the polarising aspect of the debate both juvenile and tedious. I also find aspects of it revisionist in the extreme and adopted by vinyl acolytes as a badge of convenience.

I stayed with vinyl until 1990 and never in around 17 years before that did I come across a single person who explained that intrinsic to the appeal of vinyl was the rest of the experience. My recall was that it was simply what there was. The arguments around the other stuff first arose when vinyl was first threatened and have been adopted as a flag of convenience ever since. Indeed in the 70s and 80s my only conversations with hi fi buffs revolved around how there just had to be something better. When something came along that was forced into the mass marketplace and, initially at least, patently wasnit better the defensiveness began.

Don't get me wrong. I loved cardboard covers. I have poor eyesight and despise CDs for their size alone in many ways but to argue that the feel, the smell etc were always intrinsic to the experience I think is fallacious. More that they are valued more as their rarity has increased.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Agreed Munch.

It is interesting (OK, not really), that a lot of vinyl lovers seem to have a complete disdain for digi.

Whereas, most digi lovers dont have a problem with, and actually enjoy, a little anal.

-patrick

Patrick

You might want to get a new abreviation for analogue, even though some of the opinions do seem anal.

I don't understand the one is great and the other sucks mentality either. I can understand a preference, but both formats can be musically satisfying as you pointed out. Also the point about hi or low resolution is good. It is interesting that new vinyl releases still have a lot of the analogue magic even though the performance was recorded in digital format (hi rez not cd quality)

Cheers

Bob

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by BobF:
You might want to get a new abreviation for analogue, even though some of the opinions do seem anal.
Bob

quote:

the smell etc were always intrinsic to the experience

uhhhhh yum.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Hughes:
but to argue that the feel, the smell etc were always intrinsic to the experience I think is fallacious.

It's certainly part of it for me Mike, but with all this talk of anal and fallacio...I'm in danger of getting into hot water with the domestic police.

Just remind me again . . . why does it have to be one of the other ? Can't you just appreciate both ?

Definitely not Nigel. You can stop that kind of talk right now...that leads us right back down the road to Haight-Astbury and 196whatever. What do you think this is, some kind of hifidelity love-in on spikes/ballnutters?

An opinion must be formed, a line drawn and a stance taken. How'd you think we got rid of 8track?

Funny that you mention Haight Ashbury, Mat. I'm just listening to Janis Joplin (on vinyl) at the moment, and might put on the Doors in a minute (on CD). Wild or what ? ! ? !

"Life is analogue, digital is just a sample thereof." - anonymous

"Somebody was trying to tell me that CDs are better than vinyl because they don't have any surface noise. I said, 'Listen, mate, LIFE has surface noise.'" (John Peel)