Sonus Fabers?

Richard..
Yeah well, good point. But that was then and this is now if you know what I mean.
Thanks for the reply tho' and FWIW I think its a real bitch Holland aren't at the World Cup

Just trying to find a speaker that floats my boat.
SF have been suggested to me by a friend who usually has impeccable ears.
My old & battered Royds are overdue for replacement but I'm not having a lot of luck finding anything in the shops. The usual advice of "buy some Naims" doesn't sit well with me as I've heard Intros, Credos & SBLs a few times over the years and I've always walked away thinking 'so what'.
For the record the rest is CDX/72/HC/180/Naca 5 & Tripod.

I've got Royd (7 years old) and I reckon I would need to spend towards £1k+ to find much better. I once auditioned Neat Mystiques at 2 1/2 times the price of Minstrels and thought they were about equal, each having differing "strengths".

cheers

Nigel

Ideally...(ha ha ha )

They'll need to work within cooee of the back wall (sides are miles away)no more than say 500mm out.
They need to time (natch) and make a reasonable stab at bass weight. Speed and lack of over-hang in the bass is all well and good but really we all like bass don't we? Even if we say weren't not bothered
No shreikers or screamers need apply...

Concertos need not apply where your criteria are concerned.

James comments are interesting - truely the statement of a man in love with his (former) speakers, where one will overlook all of the "features", and work on fixing the stuff that's broken. Which he did! I still remained to be convinced of their musicality.

ES11's whip them in all the areas that are important. Music, integration, fun. Probably not in some of those hifi areas. Not so sure James ever got that . Oh, and then there's the synergy thing - 11's having been designed on the end of a Naim amp (250 to be exact) - luvverly.

On a limited budget, be sure not to get yourself into those areas that will find hifi shining... the flat-earth re-balance bandaid would see you up to CDSII level faster than you can take a d**p!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Hmmmm
Seem to recall someone, somwhere having a pair of ES11's for sale recently...
Wonder who that was ??

Seriously tho'..you wanna send 'em I'll give 'em a fair hearing. If they work....



ps..what the F**k is Mullet Audio??

they're down at real music - you need to find a cheap airfare and spend a saturday in Chris's listening room, then you could just take them back with you.

Redeye

True, I have a pair for sale. Truer (perhaps) you need them in your system! My pair aside, and their abandoned status, the word on Concertos and my comments about 11's is the musical truth.

Would you prefer to explore all the possibilities, decide they are for you - only to wait 12 more months before finding a pair for sale down here???

Mullet Audio is a group of audio enthusiasts witha particular (perculiar) flat earth focus. Perhaps a search on Mullet might help.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Buying Rico's Eposes could be fun; keep them in the family so to speak.

You can also publicly depants him if they suck.

It's a win/win.

[This message was edited by Mike Sae on THURSDAY 13 June 2002 at 05:42.]

Fair enuff Rico.
But.
I sure as hell have no intention of ever buying another pair of speakers without doing the my room/my music thing.
You may remember the PMC fiasco


??

I some times wonder what it is I am doing wrong....

Poor Chris.

just remember the Water and Horses thingy.

There's always a cold beer in the fridge for after office hours

Redeye - If you must focus on what you can hear in your room, and "the real deal" don't work - its setup, mains etc.

The main thing is to ensure your speaker upgrade does what you want (moves up from the constraints of the Minstrels, good as they are) without seriously diverting source and pre funds from future upgrades. I challenge you to do better for the money!

I'll shut up now. [queue Crowd_applause.wav]

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Murphy:
I some times wonder what it is I am doing wrong....

---

Nowt, nada, zip.
Curiousity not necessarily the work of the Devil y'know

quote:

---

You can also publicly depants him if they suck.

---

Yeah right! Without rudely rearranging the words...

If someone hated them, not my issue - just a different set of audio priorities. Anyone looking for music - unlikely to be disappointed within the priceband. The ES11 deserves its reputation.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Redeye,
If your wall is only going to be 50cm away from the rear of the speaker, I think Sonus Fabers may not be for you. I own a pair of first run Concertinos (not the home model) and in a room 4.5m by 5m thay are about 80cms out. Any closer to the wall and their sumptuous midrange just dies. These babies just thrive on free placement. I chose the Concertinos over the Concertos because they were much faster, yes you lost a little bass, but the gains for transients were worth it - a better sounding Epos E11!. When I bought my 72/hc/250 the marriage was perfect, prat, control, musicality, everything.

I suspect the placement issue will probably be the same for all the Sonuses, irrespective of front or rear porting. None the less if you're looking at Sonus give the Signums a run. Sonuses are seriously good value here in Australia. The Elector Amators (for which I am saving) are AUD7000, in the UK about 2600pound or AUD6700, English speakers costing 2600pound would retail here for about AUD10400.

I find that Sonus owners tend to be like Naim owners, when they look at replacment they look further up the range rather than for outsiders. Look good, sound brilliant what else do you want?

Giles?

Redeye:

I'm voting with Rico on this one. I had a set of Concerto's for about a year. They have a great sound, especially at the store when you first hear them. The luxurious sound is very compelling. You can listen to them for extended periods of time without fatigue as well. They are well built and sound the same at home as they do in the store.

They are however, not faithful to the music.

After owning them for a year I ended up knowing that the sound was too colored and the PRaT factor was really not there.

Epos on the other hand can sound truly dreadful (harsh, brittle, in yer face)at the store and then again at home. They require a lot of set up as well. They offer more truth, PRaT, and music. It took me a good while for this to sink in, but in the end I could not deny it.

Just my 2 bits, YMMV

Arthur Bye

[shrugs shoulders]

Music is my reference.

"the hills are alive with the sound of music".

Rico will now be taking a break for a while.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arthur Bye:

After owning them for a year I ended up knowing that the sound was too colored and the PRaT factor was really not there.

Arthur Bye

---

I have had the Concertos and Signums as well. The Concerto is indeed pleasant but colored, although PRAT is still there, IMHO.

However, after listening to the JM-Reynaud Twin MK-II, at a similar price to the Concertino, for their price, they are a killer pair of speakers with Naim. I'll take them over the Electa Amator II anytime ... Makes you really wonder about the higher range of the Reynauds. But the proof is in the listening, so try to look for one and listen for yourself ... JMR did use a Naim NAP250, among others, as one of the amps in voicing the speakers at the factory ...

Julian saying to me..... what use is a crystal clear telephone line if you can't tell what your wife is feeling......

Chris.

Hmmm........

I seem to be taking a few hits here.

I kept the Concertos for a year cause I liked them! I found it difficult to get rid of them because of the compelling sound. They are VERY forgiving of poor recordings or mediocre front ends. Yes, they even did PRaT, just not as good as other speakers.

The bass coloration was their downfall though. Bass doubling was also constant problem.

Thier replacements, a set of Epos ES22's weren't perfect by any stretch. They did a lot more things right though. Setup was a royal pain too. These were very unforgiving speakers, but when they were on you knew it.

I agree with the prior post about the Concertino's actually being a bit better(much as the ES22's are better than the ES30's). I still have a set (hooked to my computer). They do all of the same things as the Concertos but without the overly colored bass thing (they couldn't go as low). Better a sin of ommission than commission.

Every speaker has it's flaws. It really is a personal taste thing.

Arthur Bye

Hi Richard,

Congratulations on your impending EA II purchase. I concur with your 'Opinions' post and agree with your observations regarding those writers that discount views even though they have not listened to the equipment they are criticizing: they are unnecessarily cynical and lack objectivity.

I auditioned Electras and found them difficult to drive with the 250. Base went lower but was not as well articulated as the Sonus Faber Guarneri. However the Electra's grooved nicely to my mainly Naim system (at that time CDX/XPS/102/Hicap/Naps/250) not withstanding power shortcomings. I suspect 135s would have been better suited but did not listened to this combination. From your comments the new EA II is well matched for the 250.

Although you are obviously happy with the EA II, you may want to listen to Guarneri if you consider buying second-hand (mine are keepers). In my opinion the Guarneri work well with Naim gear (currently CDSII/52/250/Red Dawn). Most of my listening is at moderate to low volumes and the Guarneri/Naim system delivers a superbly realistic presentation with most types of music including orchestral. Even at high volumes the 250 drives them well without top end harshness - a shortcoming of my former CDX/102 combination.

In my room (4.5x6m) the speakers distort base only at excessively high volume, mainly from the rear-facing port. However they do perform impressively loud, yet remain beautifully dynamic down to very low volume - an important consideration in my home. They are involving without inducing fatigue on long sessions, life-like and transparent (close to good electrostatics).

My music taste is eclectic ranging from jazz, opera, string/wind ensembles, folk and 'world'. Music sounds beautifully alive and involving especially strings, piano, wind and vocals, which are breathtakingly beautiful and almost as good as I have heard from any system. Even electronic music like Nils Peter Molvaer and Kruder Dorfmeister sounds surprisingly coherent, large and involving.

My guess is that the Guarneri benefits from Naim's crisp, firmly controlled amplification and agile source components. They also sound better with Nordost Red Dawn than Naim's speaker cable and thrive on free space.

Best regards,

Ron

Redeye,

Naim speakers don’t do it for me either, perhaps it’s my preference for freestanding transducers. With some Sonus Faber you may just get away with 50cm from the back wall depending on your room dimensions, furniture, floor coverings, windows, etc. – worth trying IMO.

If SF don’t ‘rock your boat’ as you say, it may be worth considering Shahinian Arc. I have heard them in Naim-amplified system (180 or 250?) to great effect: stunningly transparent, dynamic, loads of good base, wide sweet spot and not too fussy about placing (they roll on castors!) although they require at lest 30cm from the back wall. Hard to beat sound for pound. How much do you want to spend?

Giles,

Australian SF pricing is certainly competitive WRT to UK speakers; the Guarneri set me back close to 10k AUD four years ago (about 4000 UKP). Good luck with the EAII although I recommend you listen to Guarneri in your system and end the speaker upgrade merry-go-round. An immaculate second-hand pair was selling privately in Brisbane last year for about what you plan to spend on the EAIIs. Besides, Guarneri owners are unlikely to have thrashed their speakers and packaging is excellent (plywood box, inserts, etc.) so there should be little concern with transportation.

Richard,

I have not heard the Amati although would expect them to surpass the Guarneri sonically. However, in terms of appearance the Guarneri are peerless IMO – beautifully proportioned and exquisitely finished. They would certainly struggle to fill your large room though.

Ron

[This message was edited by Ron on THURSDAY 20 June 2002 at 07:10.]