Let them eat cake! Or at least let them move to Texas!

"You get the politicians you deserve"?

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
"You get the politicians you deserve"?

That would be an outright troll there wouldn't it, Nime old boy?

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quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
"You get the politicians you deserve"?

50% of the voting population of the USA doesn't deserve it.

More to the point, surely the thousands of dead, and the hundreds of thousands of dispossessed, on the gulf coast don't deserve it.

Fred

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50% of the voting population of the UK doesn't deserve it (Blair) either.

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelC:
50% of the voting population of the UK doesn't deserve it (Blair) either.

If you don't like Democracy, theres allways communism, but that didn't work either

Perhaps the good citizens of the USA get the politicians that the NRA, the agricultural sector and all the other staggeringly well-resourced lobby groups think they deserve?

Nahhh - that sounds too much like a conspiracy theory - GWB probably just woke up one day and thought it was a good idea...

GWB never had a good idea in his life. He prefers others to have them for him so he can read them off a card.(badly)

The U.S. has the best government money can buy.

Best Regards
Mark Dunn
(British expat living in Dallas)

quote:

If you don't like Democracy, theres allways communism, but that didn't work either

Ah, the false dichotomy or fallacy of the excluded middle. May I suggest that other governing options exist, such as better functioning or more representative democracy.

But, hey, you're either with us or with the terrists.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Petrik:

quote:

If you don't like Democracy, theres allways communism, but that didn't work either

Ah, the false dichotomy or fallacy of the excluded middle. May I suggest that other governing options exist, such as better functioning or more representative democracy.

But, hey, you're either with us or with the terrists.

Joe

yeah, but how would we vote for the other forms of democracy, majority decision, or proportional representation, or should we vote for one of these first, could go round in circles

In the case of the UK it's about 65%.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dunn:

The U.S. has the best government money can buy.

Yes, but that's just the problem ... we've paid enough for an FDR but all we got was this lousy GWB.

Fred

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quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

Yes, but that's just the problem ... we've paid enough for an FDR but all we got was this lousy GWB.

Inflation?

Inflation is negligible in the US, according to the Bureau of Laboor Statistics.

Interesting how that has been computed - although prices in general are up significantly, residential rent have been down. 'Owner's equivalent rent' is the applicable component of the CPI, and since rents are 'down', they offset much of the rise in other prices, so the GDP deflator is low. And so the official inflation rate is low.

In reality, for those of us who have not refinanced, cost of living is up significantly.

Of course, for those of us who have succumbed to the bubble and upgraded our housing, housing costs have gone up, but that's not recognized by the BLS or the Fed.

Regards.

Phil

quote:

Expanding on former Texas governor Ann Richards' famous line, I guess it's not just the father who was born with a silver foot in his mouth.

Fred,

I watch agog at the sheer incompetence of this man (and his family) and it saddens me deeply that such a wonderful country is run by such a buffoon.

Dave

It would be difficult to design an electoral system more likely to guarantee a buffoon (like scum) always rises to the top automatically. The system sought to buy a corruptable, ignorant & pliable puppet regardless of cost. It got one. So the US presidential electoral system works well. If it ain't broke, don't mend it! The world will go on marginalising the US ever more until it becomes merely a dirty stain in the history books.

But think what the US might have achieved with a real leader. One determined to stamp out corruption. Share its vast wealth more equably and guide the world responsibly and fairly towards real and sustainable progress. So why didn't it happen? That'll be the US electoral system.

"Self-praise is no recommendation." (particularly in politics)

I don't really do this forum thingumy anymore, but having a browse here I can't resist replying to this one.
Bush is an embarassment to the USA and it disappoints me that the people voted Bush into office in the first place, let alone for a second term; but there are good reasons why that happened and it is important to remember that there is a huge population of rural citizens who do not take an interest in everyday politics ordinarily, and may have voted on one issue; National Security. They may in my opinion be mistaken in their reasoning, but it is the responsibility of the other Party to make their own case known and understood. However, whatever their view, they have as much right to it as anyone else, and that is the strength by which the USA stands (Ok, OK I know - in principle!). I have a huge respect for the American people for their patriotism, which we in the UK don't have. Americans have a pride in their country because they made it themselves - something some of us in the UK envy. However, any path through history is a result of action and reaction, and this administration is a backlash, for which there will probably be an opposite backlash. In the UK Muslims were getting abuse on the streets and in their homes due to the current situation, but the London bombings shocked all decent people and united Londoners against the bombers/extremists to redefine the differences, which then created a new "Londoner" identity irrespective of race. This Bush period will pass and balance will push the scales in the opposite direction again - too far probably, and off it goes again.
Think of it like this:
You are standing in the river and all you can see is water; you can't make out where you are. You wade to the side of the river and climb out, and climb up to higher ground and look down at the river. You can now see the river - where it is coming from, where it's going, and the path in between with all it's twists and turns. You can also see the other people in the river who can't tell where they are, fighting each other over which way to go. Sometimes you have to take in the whole picture. How can you possibly plan a path forward otherwise? The river of course already exists, its path determined - it's just those in the water that don't know that.
Good album Fred - I was playing it only last night.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dave J:

quote:

Expanding on former Texas governor Ann Richards' famous line, I guess it's not just the father who was born with a silver foot in his mouth.

Fred,

I watch agog at the sheer incompetence of this man (and his family) and it saddens me deeply that such a wonderful country is run by such a buffoon.

Dave

Hey, you think you're sad?

This is not what I signed up for. This is not what I marched in the streets for in the 1960s. In the words of the David Bowie/Pat Metheny song, This Is Not America.

Fred

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Activists are just as capable of effecting change as lobbyists. So march in the streets again.

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quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
Bush is an embarrassment to the USA and it disappoints me that the people voted Bush into office in the first place, let alone for a second term

But he wasn't voted into office in the first place ... he lost the popular vote, and if not for the illegal and partisan intervention of the Supreme Court, would have been shown to have lost the electoral vote as well.

quote:

... it is important to remember that there is a huge population of rural citizens who do not take an interest in everyday politics ordinarily, and may have voted on one issue; National Security.

Once upon a time, that huge population of rural citizens voted progressive Democrat, until Nixon/Agnew, Reagan, Bush the Elder, and President Junior/Karl Rove snowed and cowed them into consistently voting against their own best interests. For more on this I recommend the excellent What's the Matter With Kansas? by Thomas Frank.

In 2004 the Rove Smear Machine was successful in selling fear of gay marriage and fear of terrorism, despite the fact that US policies have made the country, and the world, much less safe.

But then, the US has actually supported terrorism through the decades of modern history when it's served its own short-sighted interests. The Brotherhood of Islam, the precursor to Al Qaeda, was supported financially and politically by the Eisenhower administration in order to keep Egypt/Nasser from going communist, just as it supported the Taliban of Afghanistan in order to stick it to the USSR. Hell, they even wined and dined the Taliban in Texas hoping to make a deal to run oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan. And during the Reagan era, Saddam Hussein was our boy, even when he was a bad boy and gassed the Kurds (with chemicals purchased from the US) while we looked the other way.

The fact is that in the four years since 9/11, the US government has done almost nothing to ensure "homeland security." Just one of many examples: there are hundreds of chemical plants near major populations that if attacked could injure and/or kill thousands; there are dozens of larger plants that if compromised could actually kill millions in one fell swoop. Security at some of these plants is pretty much as lax as it was on 9/10/01, and a big reason is that the chemical/petroleum industry, of which BushCo is a subsidiary, doesn't want to be bothered with the expense and trouble of fixing the problems, just as no one could be troubled to maintain and strengthen the levees in Louisiana, which could have prevented the worst effects of Hurricane Katrina.

Given the shamefully inept response to a disaster that could been seen coming for not just days before, but years and years before (devastation of New Orleans by hurricane flooding was one of three "worst disaster" scenarios projected by FEMA, the other two being a major terrorist attack on New York, and a major earthquake in Los Angeles), can you imagine the sheer horror of a successful terrorist attack on one of the large chemical plants? Or a nuclear attack?

I truly feel as though my country has been overtaken by a cabal of evil men ... it's happened many times before in many countries, there's no reason at all it can't happen here.

Fred

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quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

Think of it like this:
You are standing in the river and all you can see is water; you can't make out where you are. You wade to the side of the river and climb out, and climb up to higher ground and look down at the river. You can now see the river - where it is coming from, where it's going, and the path in between with all it's twists and turns. You can also see the other people in the river who can't tell where they are, fighting each other over which way to go. Sometimes you have to take in the whole picture. How can you possibly plan a path forward otherwise? The river of course already exists, its path determined - it's just those in the water that don't know that.

Good album Fred - I was playing it only last night.

Thanks for the kind words, Rasher, and for your clever way of plugging Remember the River.

Fred

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Couldn't help it...
David

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My wife, the drummer, came up with this caption:

• Latest cut in levee maintenance: $72 million
  
• War in Iraq: $200 billion and counting
  
• Big new fishing hole on fresh Gulf property: priceless

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This is not fair! Those might be looters in the background and the president might be in great danger! What a farce! Heads should roll!

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We like this one even better:




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