M-magnet into M-coil pre-amp ??
Posted by: JamH on 01 February 2004
I am buying a new [actually second-hand] pre-amp and it only has moving coil phono inputs. [My record deck is Linn-Axis + Rega-Bias which is moving magnet]. I have decided to upgrade my deck to moving coil [the other option is replace the boards in the pre-amp]...
But, out of curiosity, I am wonderring 'can i just put in attenuators and feed the moving magnet into the moving coil input'.
Has anyone tried it ??
James
But, out of curiosity, I am wonderring 'can i just put in attenuators and feed the moving magnet into the moving coil input'.
Has anyone tried it ??
James
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by NaimDropper
James-
I suppose you could design a network that would give you the proper cartridge loading and adequate attenuation.
This is not a trivial "add an attenuator" approach, you need to match the cartridge, the input to the board and get the attenuation right at the same time.
On the other hand, it is (nearly) always a bad idea to "throw away" perfectly good signal with attenuators, especially when it comes to cartridge output. The little motor (generator, actually) has to work damn hard to get that signal out there, so why toss it out with the bath water?
It won't hurt a thing to try it (provided you can meet all three requirements) but it's more an exercise in passive networks and less a good approach for HiFi IMhO.
What pre are you buying? Naim MC and MM boards are available in the 3- and 5- series and they're not that expensive.
Or, just go with an appropriate MC cart and enjoy the music.
Let us know how you get on.
David
I suppose you could design a network that would give you the proper cartridge loading and adequate attenuation.
This is not a trivial "add an attenuator" approach, you need to match the cartridge, the input to the board and get the attenuation right at the same time.
On the other hand, it is (nearly) always a bad idea to "throw away" perfectly good signal with attenuators, especially when it comes to cartridge output. The little motor (generator, actually) has to work damn hard to get that signal out there, so why toss it out with the bath water?
It won't hurt a thing to try it (provided you can meet all three requirements) but it's more an exercise in passive networks and less a good approach for HiFi IMhO.
What pre are you buying? Naim MC and MM boards are available in the 3- and 5- series and they're not that expensive.
Or, just go with an appropriate MC cart and enjoy the music.
Let us know how you get on.
David
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Phil Barry
Just want to add this very unexpected experience: when my 82 came, it had 523/K boards, and I had a Grado very high output MM on the turntable.
The 523K took everything the Grado put out without audible complaint.
I quickly got some 522s, but I don't think it was necessary.
Regards.
Phil
The 523K took everything the Grado put out without audible complaint.
I quickly got some 522s, but I don't think it was necessary.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 03 February 2004 by NaimDropper
Phil-
No doubt it was LOUD that way! Maybe your phono volume settings finally matched your CD volume settings...
The phono boards have plenty of headroom and that helps them behave when there are loud transients or especially pops on a record. That's probably what kept it from clipping or excessive distortion. A tribute to the board's design margins.
However, you cartridge was not properly compensated by the input network of the K board so it wasn't performing at it's best.
I know that I tried S boards with a Karma and it drove me out of the room!
The cart loading keeps it's frequency and phase response flat (after RIAA compensation). Otherwise it will have a predictable but uneven and far from flat frequency response.
AFAIK MM carts are probably less sensitive to loading in comparison to MC carts, so this effect would be lessened to some degree.
David
No doubt it was LOUD that way! Maybe your phono volume settings finally matched your CD volume settings...
The phono boards have plenty of headroom and that helps them behave when there are loud transients or especially pops on a record. That's probably what kept it from clipping or excessive distortion. A tribute to the board's design margins.
However, you cartridge was not properly compensated by the input network of the K board so it wasn't performing at it's best.
I know that I tried S boards with a Karma and it drove me out of the room!
The cart loading keeps it's frequency and phase response flat (after RIAA compensation). Otherwise it will have a predictable but uneven and far from flat frequency response.
AFAIK MM carts are probably less sensitive to loading in comparison to MC carts, so this effect would be lessened to some degree.
David
Posted on: 03 February 2004 by Phil Barry
Yeah, as I said, I got the 522s ASAP. Still, I expected overload from the get go. And some music was better than no music.
I couldn't describe the differences between the sound produced by the 522 vs. the 523, but my sense is that I wouldn't have liked the Grado into the 523K for long.
Phil
I couldn't describe the differences between the sound produced by the 522 vs. the 523, but my sense is that I wouldn't have liked the Grado into the 523K for long.
Phil
Posted on: 03 February 2004 by JamH
Thanks for all the advice ....
I am getting a nac-82/one-HiCap and I had a look at it's specs on the naim website and they are as follows ...
Specifications nac 82
Line input sensitivities 75 mV, 100 kOhm
Phono input options
Moving Magnet N 2 mV, 47 kOhm
Moving Coil S 100 uV, 470 Ohm
Moving Coil K 100 uV, 560 Ohm
Moving Coil E 400 uV, 560 Ohm
Overload margin (all inputs, all audio freq) 40dB
Main output level 0.775 V, <50 Ohm
Tape output level 75 mV, 600 Ohm
I have no experience of moving coil -- I knew the output was a lot lower than moving magnet but -- untill I checked -- I did not know the impenance was so different. [I can't remember which moving coil version of the cards I am getting].
My options are either (a) get MM cards and eventually upgrade to MC but after a bit of thought or (b) get a cheap MC cartridge now. I will probably do (b) but the advantage of (a) is that I would be able to hear how much of an improvment the new pre-amp is compared with the 32.5/SNAPS.
James
I am getting a nac-82/one-HiCap and I had a look at it's specs on the naim website and they are as follows ...
Specifications nac 82
Line input sensitivities 75 mV, 100 kOhm
Phono input options
Moving Magnet N 2 mV, 47 kOhm
Moving Coil S 100 uV, 470 Ohm
Moving Coil K 100 uV, 560 Ohm
Moving Coil E 400 uV, 560 Ohm
Overload margin (all inputs, all audio freq) 40dB
Main output level 0.775 V, <50 Ohm
Tape output level 75 mV, 600 Ohm
I have no experience of moving coil -- I knew the output was a lot lower than moving magnet but -- untill I checked -- I did not know the impenance was so different. [I can't remember which moving coil version of the cards I am getting].
My options are either (a) get MM cards and eventually upgrade to MC but after a bit of thought or (b) get a cheap MC cartridge now. I will probably do (b) but the advantage of (a) is that I would be able to hear how much of an improvment the new pre-amp is compared with the 32.5/SNAPS.
James
Posted on: 17 February 2004 by JamH
THanks for all the advice -- bought 82 with MC boards and entry level Orthophon cartridge. Just have the pre-amp and have not tried it yet [I need more plugs !!]
James
James