Supernait + Airport Express = 1/2 second dropout at 5 seconds into audio stream

Posted by: MattP on 14 November 2008

Hello,
I've got a problem with streaming audio via an airport express (via itunes) to a supernait via an optical cable.
Consistently, at the 5-6 second mark into a stream (song) the audio drops for about a half second then recovers. The rest of the stream plays without interruption until a new stream is created for the next song then it repeats at the same point.
My suspicion at this point is that it is something that the supernait is doing, due to:

1. Occurs when either of my two Airport Express devices when plugged into the supernait via an optical cable (removing AE issue).

2. Occurs when AE is cabled directly to the mac with wireless turned off (removing wireless issues).

3. Occurs on multiple source Macs, both desktop and laptop (removing some issue with the individual source computer.)

4. Streaming via AE to a Yamaha AV amp via same optical config does not have any dropouts. (again, attempting to remove AE issue)

5. When playing to both internal computer, and SN via AE, the internal speaker continues to play the stream whilst the SN/AE drops out and recovers at the same 5-6 second mark.

6. There are no dropouts when directly connecting the mac to the SN via an optical cable – in fact this is how I’ve had it configured for the past year. Its just now I’ve moved the SN further from the computer than the optical cable can reach.

Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Matt

Posted on: 19 November 2008 by garyi

Yes, the music in the music folder remains untouched so keep that but delete everything else out the itunes folder. Now open itunes and drag the music folder onto the open itunes screen.
It will now reimport your music.

Please note you will lose your homemade playlists

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

Thanks,
Will give it a go

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

Having reverted to iTunes v.7 I can state that there is NO DROPOUT....Yipee.

So it is definitely an iTunes v8 Airtunes issue as I have changed nothing but the software.

Sadly though re importing my library has lost a load of titles and artwork for some reason

Any tips on this Garyi?

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by garyi

That will only be artwork that itunes imported for you, so log back into itunes store then goto the advanced menu option and get album artwork.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

Sadly no it has lost loads of album info as well as artwork. I think they may be all the albums I have ripped originally with v7, all the ones ripped with v8 are ok.

Is there any way of re finding it without having to re rip it from cd as that is what iTunes is telling me to do, as it thinks it didn't import them.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by garyi

I did not experience this issue when I reverted back to v7, so don't really know what to tell you, sorry.

How many have gone awry, and what format were you importing them too?*

* You'll say WAV now which will explain your issue, and I will retort that importing in WAV is pointless, not least for the fact that WAV cannot store tag info, so itunes stores it for you separately.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by james n

I suspect its the Supernait clock recovery - IIRC correctly it has two modes (someone please correct me if wrong) and what you maybe seeing is it switching between them and temporarily losing lock. I just tried my spare AE into my Lavry and noticed that between tracks the digital data stops (rather than idling and keeping an external DAC locked) and the lavry unlocks, which would again explain why it does this in your system on each track.

I used to get occasional drops on my n-Vi when streaming from the Mac Mini and thought it was network problems and checked switches, network settings etc - no probs with the Lavry so i suspect it was something again with the n-Vi clock recovery.

Cheers

James

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by spacey

WAV is crap. i agree. if you get dbpoweramp you can convert them to apple lossless. then when you import them back into itunes it WILL re-tag all the files. i started ripping to WAV but then found that the tags were missing. im still not sure apple lossless is the most universal format it should be though.....

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by spacey

quote:
Originally posted by james n:
I suspect its the Supernait clock recovery - IIRC correctly it has two modes (someone please correct me if wrong) and what you maybe seeing is it switching between them and temporarily losing lock. I just tried my spare AE into my Lavry and noticed that between tracks the digital data stops (rather than idling and keeping an external DAC locked) and the lavry unlocks, which would again explain why it does this in your system on each track.

I used to get occasional drops on my n-Vi when streaming from the Mac Mini and thought it was network problems and checked switches, network settings etc - no probs with the Lavry so i suspect it was something again with the n-Vi clock recovery.

Cheers

James

it cant be the SN as when i use the optical out from my laptop toshlinked directly to the optical input on the SN's dac there is no issues what so ever.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by james n

I'm just pointing out that i've seen similar with the n-Vi and with the fact the AE drops the clock between tracks this may be the cause of the issue. Your using a laptop and the clock doesn't drop on these between tracks so it's not the same setup is it ? - as Matt has said he gets no issues when connecting directly to his laptop.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
I did not experience this issue when I reverted back to v7, so don't really know what to tell you, sorry.

How many have gone awry, and what format were you importing them too?*

* You'll say WAV now which will explain your issue, and I will retort that importing in WAV is pointless, not least for the fact that WAV cannot store tag info, so itunes stores it for you separately.

You got it in one, some of my origional rips, about 40 albums(bummer) as wav's.

Don't be sorry, bl@@dy software.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by spacey

yes i agree its not exactly the same setup but it is exactly the same issue meaning it cant be the amps dac can it..... its has to be the amount of directional traffic the AE can handle. i have also tried the latest version of bonjour as this is what airtunes uses. issue still remains.

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by james n

I'd put money on the DAC in the SN - any drop out problems streaming went away when i stopped using the n-Vi in my setup.

I notice from the original post Matt didn't get drop outs when using the AE into his Yamaha amp ...

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by spacey

yes i read that bit too... just wanted to mention also, this doesnt happen at the beginning of every track just the beginning of the album. how can the dac be put on one mode then?

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by james n

Knew i'd seen it somewhere before - (as in earlier in the thread) doh !

quote:
Perhaps the SUPERNAIT is switching between wide-lock and VCXO re-clocking mode. Consult with your retailer for a fix, which can be implemented via the front panel in program mode

James

Posted on: 20 November 2008 by spacey

will try and report back..cheers.

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by spacey

quote:
Originally posted by james n:
Knew i'd seen it somewhere before - (as in earlier in the thread) doh !

quote:
Perhaps the SUPERNAIT is switching between wide-lock and VCXO re-clocking mode. Consult with your retailer for a fix, which can be implemented via the front panel in program mode

James

spoke to naim today. this function does not exist on the SN. it belongs to the Nvi only...

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by spacey

there is a new version of itunes released 8.0.2 hopefully this version may have addressed the issue.

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

quote:
Originally posted by r-tee:
there is a new version of itunes released 8.0.2 hopefully this version may have addressed the issue.

Think I will wait for someone else to try it to find out if the drop-out has been fixed. V7 works and I can live with it for the minute. I would be interested to hear from any of you chaps when you try it out.

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by spacey

tried it. still does it but the new version 8.0.2.20 is very good though.

i think i have narrowed the issue down to the buffering. when you change the size from small to medium or to large the little blip in the sound comes later the samller the buffer is.

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by Mickyblueyes

quote:
Originally posted by r-tee:
tried it. still does it but the new version 8.0.2.20 is very good though.

i think i have narrowed the issue down to the buffering. when you change the size from small to medium or to large the little blip in the sound comes later the samller the buffer is.

So does that mean the buffering for an AE in iTunes v7 is different somehow?

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by spacey

im not sure i have tried itunes 7 again but still doing the same. dont know if when un-installing itunes v8 all the application is removed fully. i did search for all itunes files but some how when you install a new version it keeps certain setting meaning it could not have fully removed itself .

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by pcstockton

I thought Itunes and Macs in general were completely immune from these types of issues.

Posted on: 21 November 2008 by spacey

apple started using intel architecture a few years ago making apple products glossy white PCs. the only real difference now is the OS and the plugins. my brother has both windows and a mac OS's on every machine in his office.

Posted on: 22 November 2008 by garyi

These 'issues' PC are around 80% of the time to do with how one is doing something and their home network, as I am sure you are aware.