Solar Panels with Naim?

Aplogies in advance for the sarcastic reply.

If your motivation is saving the planet, you are better off taking your hard-earned and investing in a legitimate renewable energy fund where they can, in-turn invest it in much more efficient (economically and physically) industrial-scale renewable projects.

If, on your other hand your goal is making a financial return based on extraordinary feed-in tariffs (i.e. having your power supply subsidised by those unable to afford solar panels) then go for it.

I just hate greenwash, rolled out for political gain. Heavily subsidised domestic-scale solar electricity is nothing more than this.

No comment on the effect on sound quality, but if renewable power makes you feel better about yourself, then you will enjoy your music more.

Very well stated political opinion. On the running of equipment, isn't the electricity stored in batteries? And then the DC is converted to AC and I think that's going to be the issue. Is that converter a solid source? It's kinda like running a TV off of a car battery through a converter when you go camping. I remember that it never seemed like there was enough power to keep the TV bright.

You're right that it has to interface through an inverter. If it is connected to the mains then it all goes into the mix and the adequacy (stiffness) of supply should be fine. The mains will fill the gaps that the solar can't handle. Of more concern is the noise that the solid state inverter perhaps injects into the mains. This would seem to be a much greater issue than that caused by various wall-warts and other switch-mode power supplies on the system as it is inverting (creating AC) much more serious currents.

Solar power charging large batteries that power the DC circuits in the equipment directly might be good (but requires extensive mods). Battery powered line stages are fairly common (relatively, that is) and some even swear that their Macbook Pros sound better when on batteries (even though they are feeding SPDIF digital signals via optical toslink).

Oh, I just realised that Richard is a first timer. Welcome to the forum and apologies again for the sarcastic reply. Please don't be put off by what an ar$h0!e I appear to be. It is a really good forum. Yes, welcome.

I recently had a PV system installed at my home. I have not detected any difference in mains quality (which was bad anyway). I believe that the quality of mains going into your system is more dependent on interference from other domestic appliances than the actual supply...

FWIW, if I can get paid 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity I export, as well as remain 'electricity neutral', which I have over the past few weeks (it has been sunny!)then any arguments regarding the validity of individual PV systems as the best method of saving the planet don't wash with me.

quote:

FWIW, if I can get paid 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity I export, as well as remain 'electricity neutral', which I have over the past few weeks (it has been sunny!)then any arguments regarding the validity of individual PV systems as the best method of saving the planet don't wash with me.

Over a year, on average how much overgeneration of electicity will you have and what was the capital investment? Also, what is the panels life?

I cannot predict overgeneration, but I have a 2.16 KW/h system and historically systems installed by the company I have gone with have generated far in excess of the 80% that is usually quoted.

My panels are guarranteed for 20 years and the feed in tariff is extant for 25 years from 2010. For the price of a NAP300 and NAC282 (roughly), at the CURRENT cost of electricity I will break even in less than 8 years, using the above 80% assumption.

Solar pannels, reduced carbon foot print, saveing the planet? It's all a bit of a distraction really. The more imediate concern (apart from the spending review in Britan LOL?) could be the small problem with no fresh water = no food = a lot of dead...........

But if putting a few toys on your roof and making some money on the side does it for you the hay, fantastic. I'm guessing you don't leave your system powered up then?

Cheers H

works on Import export usually solar power. I cant see that it would affect your supply at all. It s a good idea that we are looking into at the moment.

A warm, sunny welcome to Richard and SKD

Best, Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Harryd91:
Solar pannels, reduced carbon foot print, saveing the planet? It's all a bit of a distraction really. The more imediate concern (apart from the spending review in Britan LOL?) could be the small problem with no fresh water = no food = a lot of dead...........

But if putting a few toys on your roof and making some money on the side does it for you the hay, fantastic. I'm guessing you don't leave your system powered up then?

Cheers H

Jeez O.
Sorry if we don't all come up to your high ethical standards St Harry. Remind me what they are again?

And welcome to the board to our new members although after this farce I'll be surprised if we hear from you again.

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:
I recently had a PV system installed at my home.

FWIW, if I can get paid 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity I export, as well as remain 'electricity neutral', which I have over the past few weeks (it has been sunny!)then any arguments regarding the validity of individual PV systems as the best method of saving the planet don't wash with me.

You say "get 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity". I guess by unit you mean kwh. With the wholesale price of electricity in a lot of the world at less than 5 pence per kwh, your solar system does seem to be heavily subsidised. Subsidies are required where inefficiencies exist. I re-iterate that domestic rooftop solar-voltaic is one of the worst possible investments in GHG mitigation.

Surprisingly for most, one of the most cost-effective investments currently available in reducing GHG emissions is to build large scale coal-fired powerplants. Use these new highly efficient plants to replace the worst (least-efficient) plants in places like Ukraine, Russia, China and India and the $ per tonne-CO2-eq saved will actually be MUCH lower than your investment in PV cells (or in wind farms). Not politically expedient, but the numbers are very real. New power-plants are more than twice as efficient as older power-plants (even in places like the US - much more so in the developing world).

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Sutton:
We are considering installing solar panels but are concerned whether the mains generated will affect the quality of mains supplying our Naim equipment. Has anyone got experience of solar panels and their associated inverters close to Naim equipment?
Are there any actions we can take to avoid affecting our mains?
Thanks

Hi and welcome to the forum. You have not stated what kind of Naim (and other) audio equipment you run as this will allow us to estimate whether your solar panels can generate enough electricity for your kit. Naim equipment needs to be left on all the time, and your solar panels may not be able to provide enough juice on an on-going basis. You might consider using the solar panels to heat your water and running your Naim on the mains. Just a thought.

KR,

Joe

Solar Panels with Naim?

I tried this but the system sounded a bit bright to my ears.

Poor old Richard. Pops onto the forum for the first time, gets shot down in flames by Winky who was making a valuable addition to a discussion which should be taking place in the padded cell.

Perhaps, since Richard has probably been scared away forever, this thread should move to its rightful home.

Tim

Richard - a colleague of mine has recently had a system put in. A set of PV panels and an inverter. The incoming mains supply stays connected to the house as before - the inverter just supplies AC via an additional meter onto the incoming mains supply so his house is not running off the panels at any time - they are just providing additional power during daylight. As mentioned above the only issue may be noise from the inverter itself, but this is nothing compared to all the other crap on the mains. Unless you are going totally 'off the grid' then the system is totally different but i can't see any reason for you to worry about the panels and your music.

James

there is a company advertising on telly about solar panels. They lease your roof of you for 25 years. You get free electric, they make the money on the export back onto the grid.

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
Richard - a colleague of mine has recently had a system put in. A set of PV panels and an inverter. The incoming mains supply stays connected to the house as before - the inverter just supplies AC via an additional meter onto the incoming mains supply so his house is not running off the panels at any time - they are just providing additional power during daylight. As mentioned above the only issue may be noise from the inverter itself, but this is nothing compared to all the other crap on the mains. Unless you are going totally 'off the grid' then the system is totally different but i can't see any reason for you to worry about the panels and your music.

James

The house is still connected to the mains BUT if you generate more than you are using then it just 'pushes' the current back to the supplier. As for the feed-in-tariff, the only subsidies are coming from the electricity companies who are obliged by EU law to provide an amount electricity from renewable sources by 2020 (can't remember what percentage it is)...

quote:

Originally posted by Christopher_M:
A warm, sunny welcome to Richard and SKD

Best, Chris

Thanks, unfortunately its not been warm or sunny here in Dorset for the last few days. The electricity Export meter becomes as much of an obsession as the hifi...

all new build houses i think have to have a re-newable energy. I have been working on some new sites in Yeovil social housing specs are higher than a private new house. Solar panels for hot water or ground source water heating pump things. Plus 15mm plasterboard. Private new build still 12.5 mm plasterboard.

Solar is def the way forward, the you need plenty of sunlight i think is crap. South facing is ideal and daylight, then how many panels you have as well. Its a wierd metering system import/export. Your power supplier is still only liable upto your meter, anything after that your problem. So if your panels go wrong i take it the Panel supplier sorts it all out.

Quote: Jeez O.
Sorry if we don't all come up to your high ethical standards St Harry. Remind me what they are again?

And welcome to the board to our new members although after this farce I'll be surprised if we hear from you again.
------------------------------------------------

Hay TomK,

with a 1860 posts I guess we're going keep hearing from you alot LoL!. actually, it's not that I have high standards i don't. Global warming, bring it on... It's just that I can't be bothered with self deluding righteous comments (twadle) like 'electricity neutral' thus my sarcastic response.

have a nice day H

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:

quote:

FWIW, if I can get paid 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity I export, as well as remain 'electricity neutral', which I have over the past few weeks (it has been sunny!)then any arguments regarding the validity of individual PV systems as the best method of saving the planet don't wash with me.

Over a year, on average how much overgeneration of electicity will you have and what was the capital investment? Also, what is the panels life?

Calculating the payback to the owner is meaningless if we are talking about the total environmental cost for the entire energy system. Household PV feed-in tariffs are heavily subsidized and divert investment away from much better methods of GHG abatement. The policies that lead to such inefficient means of generation are nothing but greenwash and are ultimately destructive to the environment.

Interesting article in the Telegraph on feed in tariffs...

shock in the small print

James

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
Interesting article in the Telegraph on feed in tariffs...

shock in the small print

James

I am aware that FIT tariffs can go down as well as up, but I am 100% sure that the unit cost of electricity from all suppliers will go up over time (especially when you look at the 25 year lifespan of the FIT). Lets put this in perspective...there are many on this forum who have spent vastly more on their hifi than I have on 12 solar panels and an inverter!

quote:

Lets put this in perspective...there are many on this forum who have spent vastly more on their hifi than I have on 12 solar panels and an inverter!

Very true - but then they probably get an instant return (musical pleasure) on their investment rather than in 8 years or so time

Seriously though on our next house we will be doing this both for heating and electricity generation. As you say Energy prices will continue going up but PV panel prices will go down and it will become more economical to fit these.

James