Solar Panels with Naim?

Surely the point about investing in sustainable energy capture methods such as Solar Cells, is that the person doing this wants to do so [for a whole variety of reasons perhaps] without putting the first priority on selling the surplus power at an uneconomic unit price?

Also, I am curious that somehow profligate use of finite resources in one area [such as leaving quiescent hifi powered up] can be justified by saving profligate use of finite resources in another - such as turning off redundant lighting.

Husbanding resources should - in my view - be seen as a whole. If one's current behaviour is pricking the conscience, then make savings starting with the biggest possible as the first priority and then examining the lesser savings for further action.

It is surprising how logical summersaults are made by people to justify waste for their favourite activities. And also how blind people are to waste when it comes to such things as minimising waste in selection their place of residence in relation to the distance from their place of work.

Such issues are potentially far more wasteful than leaving quiescent hifi powered, but both can and should be thought about, and over a reasonable time considered and acted on according to conscience with the greatest speed of action being reserved for the most significant conservation ...

Best wishes from George

Hi George,
Knew you wouldn't be able to keep away esp with such a subject to get your juices flowing!

As an aside, are you still using what I'm calling your Terabyte and headphones rig, or have you now got yourself an amp and some SBLs?

Now back to the thread.

Best, Chris

Dear Christopher,

Same set except headphones broke down, so now feeding the music to a Tivoli Model One Radio - rated at 3 watts RMS [mono], I believe.

[Sorry for off-topic reply].

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:
Surely the point about investing in sustainable energy capture methods such as Solar Cells, is that the person doing this wants to do so [for a whole variety of reasons perhaps] without putting the first priority on selling the surplus power at an uneconomic unit price?

Absolutely. I don't think anyone who invests in a PV system does so thinking that they are somehow going to save the planet, but by taking a holistic view of ones lifestyle (minimising use of cars, recycling waste packaging, water collection, re-use of grey water etc et) then its a start, which is what we all need to do. Similarly, I have not invested in a PV system to make money, but purely reduce my outgoings (albeit long-term) and reduce reliance on energy companies that will start to charge what they like as energy becomes more expensive in the very near future.

right first apology, loads of sunlight makes solar work better. Thier was a very Item on Jeremy Vine as Radio 2 with Martin Lewis very interesting. They say stay clear of anyone installing FREE panels as you basically wont gain bugger all over the 25 year lease. IF you can get to listen to it , its good information.

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:
but I am 100% sure that the unit cost of electricity from all suppliers will go up over time

Interesting proposition given that the wholesale cost of energy continues to decrease in real terms across the globe.

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:
but I am 100% sure that the unit cost of electricity from all suppliers will go up over time

Interesting proposition given that the wholesale cost of energy continues to decrease in real terms across the globe.

When did you last see your electricity bill reduce in real terms? I suggest that as supply increases from renewable sources, the cost of investing in those said sources will make a significant impact on what comes out of our pockets? We could argue the toss all day since there is no definite answer.

grants are available upto £3500 for solar panels. The Price of electricity sold ack to the gris is set by the government not the suppliers. I think its around 43.1p not sure is thats Kw or units.

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:
but I am 100% sure that the unit cost of electricity from all suppliers will go up over time

Interesting proposition given that the wholesale cost of energy continues to decrease in real terms across the globe.

When did you last see your electricity bill reduce in real terms? I suggest that as supply increases from renewable sources, the cost of investing in those said sources will make a significant impact on what comes out of our pockets? We could argue the toss all day since there is no definite answer.

I don't take any notice of my personal (retail) bill, but I have done analysis for major long term eingineering projects and used well researched energy price histories and forecasts. I stand by my comment that wholesale prices are falling (on average) in real terms. On the domestic retail side, once you add on all the fluff like green levies, local taxes and factor in the way that many downstream "suppliers" are either effective monopolies and/or collude to extract extraordinary returns from domestic customers, there exists a significant disconnect between true wholesale prices and retail price trends. Your quarterly bill does not really reflect energy costs.

PV solar on a domestic scale is so far from being cost-competitive (i.e. a bad place to invest) that it isn't even funny. Greenwash. Spend your money on something else if you want to save the planet. Like birth control programs for developing nations (and the US). There lies some real environmental payback.

Birth control, self control.

It is all part of a bigger picture.

The brave new world of increasing reliance on "renewables" is going to require allsorts of adoptions from small and large scale PV, wind, tidal to more simple heat capture ...

The days of profligate waste are numbered, and it is impossible to imagine the requirements that will be legislated into place to force the recalcitrant sections of society to move with the times.

I am ready, and actually relishing the thought of maintaining musical culture at the least impact on the planet. If I am honest this will not involve replay equipment that is required to be left on in quiescent mode as a prime recommendation for optimal performance.

Equally I did not run the heating last winter in spite of it being colder than normal. I am content to listen to music with enough clothes on that the cold is no problem!

Best wishes from George

Hey George,

Here we are agreeing with each other again.

I just see that not only are PV "investors" in Oz lining up for a heavily subsidised 60c per kwh, but the local maufacturers are also asking for intervention to stop "cheap" Chinese PV cells taking their market.

PV feed in rates in Australia

All of this self-serving so-called environmentalism will do little other than make us feel good enough about our rampant consumerism ("it's OK to fly to Paris for my holidays - I use solar!") that we continue unabated in our quest to destroy the planet. We are just too selfish.

Dear Winky,

Indeed as suggested in my first reply, our approach should ideally start with the biggest items of saving.

Flying is not generally regarded as a no-no yet, but it will seem so in time. In fact given that there is currently no way to fly without the one off use of finite fossil fuels it may well virtually disappear eventually as we adopt sailed powered ships for international travel ...

Okay, many will consider me a little bit at the bleeding leading edge on this, but I can tell you that if I won the Lottery [unlikely as I buy tickets perhaps twice a year!] I would buy an old house and a little land in the countryside and go self sufficient with no phone or electricity. Obviously I would try to have sufficient PV to allow for electrically powered music replay, but when it got dark, I would retire to bed!

Best wishes from George

quote:

Originally posted by SKDriver:
I recently had a PV system installed at my home. I have not detected any difference in mains quality (which was bad anyway). I believe that the quality of mains going into your system is more dependent on interference from other domestic appliances than the actual supply...

FWIW, if I can get paid 41.3 pence for every unit of electricity I export, as well as remain 'electricity neutral', which I have over the past few weeks (it has been sunny!)then any arguments regarding the validity of individual PV systems as the best method of saving the planet don't wash with me.

SKD - well said, and thank you for a relevant answer without politics or a soapbox.
My mains is excellent and the system sounds wonderful so I am extra cautious about not messing it up. I have found more problems in the past with external influences on mains rather than those within my home. I established this by disconnecting everything in the house and I still had nasty buzzing sounds from my SuperCap.
Hope that the PV system serves you well.

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Oh, I just realised that Richard is a first timer. Welcome to the forum and apologies again for the sarcastic reply. Please don't be put off by what an ar$h0!e I appear to be. It is a really good forum. Yes, welcome.

Thank you for your "welcome". There was I wondering if I would even get a response to my post!

I don't think I am going to save the planet but if no one does anything then we are surely doomed. Maybe we are anyway but the FIT for fitting PV panels does look attractive.

quote:

Originally posted by joesilva:
Hi and welcome to the forum. You have not stated what kind of Naim (and other) audio equipment you run as this will allow us to estimate whether your solar panels can generate enough electricity for your kit. Naim equipment needs to be left on all the time, and your solar panels may not be able to provide enough juice on an on-going basis. You might consider using the solar panels to heat your water and running your Naim on the mains. Just a thought.

KR,

Joe

My system is LP12/Armageddon, CDS3, XPS, S/Cap, 250/2 with B&W 803s. I think it uses around 35 watts while not in use and of course it is on all the time because it needs to be. I do strive to use as little energy as I can but there is no point in having the kit if you turn if off everytime. All unnecessary power consumers and wall warts are off when not required and this is one of the many ways we try to keep down our energy useage.
The PV panels are in part to do our bit and part for some long term income from FIT. It is much cheaper to heat water with solar panels rather than PV but it is a long term payback whereas the FIT for PV is financially attractive.

What I find interesting in today's society is EVERYTHING is going electric. Think beyond stereo, your cell phone, games, TV/DVD, some cars. Can you imagine the recharge cost on an electric car? Sure they don't pollute out it's pipe but the power station has to have natural gas, coal or nuclear power and all the process to get that working.

Here in LA is the best place for solar panels yet the local PG&E doesn't reimburse you for any extra you generate. They also have a proposition to set back new higher pollution controls, that's stirring up people. Besides battery technology hasn't proven itself effective over a long term and there's limited supply of the stuff for (is it ion batteries?) sorry I'm not technically adept at this, but there is a whole system of costs from mining, transportation to manufacturing, to shipping for something as simple as a battery.

Does anybody play analogue games anymore like cards, pickup sticks or read without music going? Some days at home I don't listen to any music at all then birds and urban sounds become my aural backdrop. It's Sunday morning 8 AM and birds are up and a few cars. Of course here I am at the computer writing to people half way round the world....

Winky is right in urging old equipment to be replaced with new more efficient generators. I've bought stock in AES which is an alternative energy company working around the world with new technologies. It's not a major money maker but it is a statement of support for them to use my money to invest in more projects. I consider it like tithing to social causes, everybody should pay some portion of income into supporting good causes.

I'll get off the soapbox and go to breakfast.

Wish I'd never gotten my masters in landscape architecture they made me feel so damn guilty for everything I do in the environment. But I will walk the mile to the cafe.