LINN preamps any good?

No

It depends on the context. If you're intending to partner it with a Linn power amp, then yes they're great. If you're intending on using a Naim power amp, then the Naim power amp requires the use of a Naim pre-amp.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Hans

I recently heard some pretty high end Linn stuff when listening to the Akiva. I must admit that I enjoyed the sound, found it very revealing and no problems in carrying the tune. It does sound different to my Naim kit; maybe more clinical.

They also build their innards in a different way to most others in that they use surface mount electronics. This makes their kit look smaller than their peers.

Give them a try. The most important consideration is "Do you like them?". If you think they sound better than other manufacturers, then they are better.

The main reason I went for Naim is because of the great upgrade path available. The sound was good to start, I know it can always be improved.

Mike

I have owned a Wakonda, Kolektor & Kairn. I currently have a Kairn, I will say that I think Linn makes a very good preamp. They also are very compatible with other makers of amplifiers. I have used Linn preamps in the past with amps from Denon & Rotel without any problem when I was first building my system piece by piece.
The Kolektor is a bargain and I felt it was the best bang for the buck of any preamp I have ever purchased. The Wakonda is a good preamp in it's Slimline Brilliant configuration. However, it is obsolete and is only now available in the Phono Config, the line stage version is unavailable. The Kairn is now only available in Phono. If you have an external phono-stage or only line sources the Kolektor is a great preamp. Silent, musical and very very versitile. 10 programable inputs, unity gain for home theatre, nameable inputs etc. A recent spec Kairn used is a great value as well. It is a more musical amp than the Kolektor, although not as flexible. The Kairn will be replaced in the next year with a newer preamp. It is also the only linn product currently that has not been switched to a surface-mount design. I use the Kairn in my main system and am often astounded by it. The phono-stage in it is amazing as well. For the approximately $1400
they cost on the used market, you can't do much better.
While I think Linn & Naim make the most musical HI-FI on the market, their engineering methods are much different. Naim uses much older and more tried and true powersupply technology. As a result, Naim equipment tends to be more fiddly. Naim gear is much more sensitive to fluctuations in power quality and really needs expensive & complex outboard powersupplies to really sound it's best. Also, Naim gear is more sensitive to RFI than Linn. Linn's switchmode powersupplies are almost 100% immune to power-fluctuations and tend to sound spot on regardless of power situations. The switchmode supplies are a great benifit in that the negate the need for power conditioning and are nearly immune to interferance. I would say the NAC 112 and the Kolektor which are very comparable in both price & performance would both be good choices. The 112 would be the obvious choice if you are going to use Naim amps, the Kolektor if you are going to use amps of any other manufacturer. The 112 has the ability to be greatly improved with a Flatcap II

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Originally posted by Hans 67:
Are the LINN preamps good? I am especially interested in the cheaper new ones. But information about older and/or more expensive ones are also welcome.

Greetings, Hans

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GrahamP said:

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Personally I would not touch Linn having lived with Naim for many years but saying that my Kabers, LP12/Ittok/Asaka are still stunning performers!

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I thought you said you wouldn't touch Linn...

Let's face it, for those of us in the know (Linnie or Naimie), it was blindingly obvious that the Switch Mode Power supplies were a step forward in musical performance for Linn. SMPSs provide more solidity to the timing of the music and stability to the performance (whatever the mains conditions).

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

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I am used to using the best i.e. Naim 102/Hi-cap/250

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This is a very ill-matched combination, imho. My teeth are dropping out at the sheer thought



Regards,

Steve.

"This is a very ill-matched combination, imho. My teeth are dropping out at the sheer thought"

Actually this is a superb combination-highly recommeded by Naim (as well as myself)...of course what would Naim know about a Naim 102, hicap or 250? ;-)

regards,

dave

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I am used to using the best i.e. Naim 102/Hi-cap/250

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Dave is correct. I used this combination for several years and it provided an excellent level of performance. The 102 seems to be mistakenly under-rated by some but combined with the finest of sources, it is very, very good, surpassed only by the better preamps, the 82 or 52 (I have not heard the newer replacements).

Paul

Eh.

I owned an LK-1, which was OK through the MC section but terrible for line sources; even after changing to the Dirak. Owned a Kairn briefly (not an SMPS); which was notably better than the LK1/Dirak but was handily outperformed by a 32.5/Hicap on phono. Both of those Linn preamps sounded rather "gray" and somewhat lifeless; compared to a Krell and Levinson preamps the Kairn was better. I'm not that impressed with the Wakonda--OK but nothing to write home about.

One other impression. Working at a store, we were trying to get the Keltiks to sound right with a Kairn and 4 Klouts. Never could get them to sound as good as they should, until we substituted a 82/Hicap for the Kairn, at which point the Keltiks actually started to sound pretty good. Would have been interested to hear them with a 52 and 4x250s or 8x135s.

Best and Happy New Year to all.

Bob

From what I can recall, the early preamps of the early 90s sounded a little too "dry" for my tastes. In the last couple of years, I have heard some of the higher end Linn pre-power combos, and I have to say I was impressed. I`m still not sure that they represent better value for money than Naim though, which have a vey different sonic presentation. Needless to say, I still think that Naim makes the best sounding amps available (to my ears) The other question mark over Linn kit(from my own experience) is their after sales customer support....this factor alone would prevent me from buying anything with a Linn label on it.

Laurie S

You need to bear in mind that once Steven Toy once heard the 102 + anything.

It was a substatial listeningn session in a dem room of around an hour.

I think he is qualitfied to answer.

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You need to bear in mind that once Steven Toy once heard the 102 + anything.

It was a substatial listeningn session in a dem room of around an hour.

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It was several times actually, and over a number of weeks.

The 102 is lovely with a Napsc and a 140.



Regards,

Steve.

With all this talk of sound quality, I feel that the main point is being missed.
Any who hope to progress beyond the novice ranks of Naim, must come to understand that the only True Source in a Naim system is the LP12. Recent attempts to confuse the novice with talk of other formats must cease.
However, it is also vital to understand that all other Linn electronics are the work of Lucifer, and have been sent harm seekers of the truth.
Those experienced in the arts of Naim may dabble with Linn loudspeakers, but this is not for the novice.

JC

The Ittok is a little softer and bassier so I partner it with the slightly tighter glassier Ortophon.
Ther is really very little difference between the two arms though.

malcolm

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the only True Source in a Naim system is the LP12.
However, it is also vital to understand that all other Linn electronics are the work of Lucifer, novice.

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Two Questions, what about the CDSII - Isn't that a true source....

Also, is it because of Linn's deal with Lucifer that the Klimax absolutely smokes the NAP 500?

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Originally posted by dave simpson:
"This is a very ill-matched combination, imho. My teeth are dropping out at the sheer thought"

Actually this is a superb combination-highly recommeded by Naim (as well as myself)...of course what would Naim know about a Naim 102, hicap or 250? ;-)

regards,

dave

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I supercap my 102 with a SLIC to power its digital section and love it.

Dupree-

I had a slightly different reaction to the Klimax monos. I was able to listen to the Klimax against a NAP 250 and a NAP 500, driving NBLs, ProAc Response 5s, and Vandersteen 5s. The differences between the amps were consistent across the speakers. Sources were CDS2, CD12, or LP12/Lingo/Ar0/Helikon SL, into a 52.

Comparing the Klimax to the 250 was instructive, if hardly relevant given the price differential. The Klimax was smoother, more extended and more detailed than the 250, making the 250 sound a bit unrefined. The Klimax also had a much easier time driving the ProAcs, and sounded a lot more powerful-which it is. It also sounded very agile, and was able to portray fine shadings very well.

The Klimax compared to the 500 was a more interesting comparison. Here, the 500 was more convincing in portraying musical lines and interplay, and sounded more engaged with the music, the Klimax tending to be a bit more at arms length. The 500 invited you in more, sounding more coherent and (much) more authoritative. Maybe the 500 interfaced with the ProAcs better, but the ProAcs really showed off how much better sounding the 500 was, which was quite a bit.

I grant that some might prefer the Klimax in other systems on other days. But from the listening I and some other people were able to do, the 500 was substantially better.

Best,

Bob

I don't have much direct experience with the current Linn pre-amps but I do clearly remember my local dealer spouting off as to how great the LK1/2 was when it appeared seemingly out of nowhere in the mid eighties.

My dealer (and presumably Linn) opined that it walked all over the 32-5/Hi/250. I, on the other hand, thought that a bare 42/110 beat the Linn hands down (and I wasn't what one would consider a 'Naimite' at the time - if anything I was a budding 'Linnie').

It wasn't long before Linn themselves (Miller) were admitting in their own newsletter (The Record) that they had skimped somewhat on the power supply section of both units and had decided to release up rated outboard power supplies named Spark and Dirak.

I suppose that in hindsight one could say that imitation really is the sincerest form of flattery but, even so equipped, the Linn wasn't a patch on Naim's then second best IMO (BTW, source used was LP12/LVII/Karma with Isobariks out back so it should have been a fair test).

I am sure that things have changed somewhat at Linn, what with all of the experience they must have gained over the years producing pre-amps with 'Brilliant' switched mode power supplies located mere inches away from their delicate front ends but, for me that was the point at which they seemed to have lost the element of self criticism (and the plot IMO).

If anything Linn's foray into electronics made me sit up and take greater notice of Naim. Thanks Ivor.

Craig

PS. Just this past Saturday I observed a glossy new Linn 'full' product line brochure at the very same dealer and, although the LP12 was pictured, there was not a single mention of the tonearms or cartridges. Last night I dug out my copy of Linn's first ever flyer and felt a mild sense of loss whilst reading of the 'former' Linn Products.

I am in complete agreement. I havn't heard a good linn system for a very long time.

I remember hearing a Linn set up in Sheffield in the middle eighties. It was a full Lp12 with Isobariks. I can't remember the amplification but I do remember how poor it was. When compared with Naim amplification into SBL's it was a complete transformation. It was like someone had removed the cotton wool out of my ears.

I have listened to Linn equipment since but in the last fifteen years they seem to have lost their way.

Stick to Naim amps they are much better and I am not just saying this because this is a Naim forum.

Regards

NB

[/QUOTE]
By the way, did you know that the new 2250 (klout replacement) is actually the same cicuit as a klimax twin without the aluminium casing?
Interesting no?[/QUOTE]

This is true. The powersupply in the 2250 is also different, it is basically the PS from the 5125. So there are other differences. As a result the 2250 is one of the best values in that price range. It is a much better amp than the aging Klout that it replaced. Naim also uses similar circuit topologies in it's 250, 300 and 500 series amps. This gives them a similar family sound and cut's down engieering costs.
In response to the Klimax Solo issue, and where my ears are. While I was in New York, I auditioned in home both the Klimax Solo and NAP 500 with Revel Ultima Studio's. The source was a Full spec LP-12 and an Ikemi. The NAP500 did not have the lowend grunt that the Klimax Solo had. The midbass was awesome, and the deepbass was more controlled. I just plain felt that the Klimax was more transparent and more in control of these speakers. The dynamics and liquidity of the Solo's was the best I have heard.
I think some people on this forum are living in the past and are guilty of some luddite leanings. When I hear people lamenting that their Nait 2 is better than the new Nait 5 series, or that all of Linn's gear must suck because the LK-1 which is 15 years old doesn't stack up anymore, I know that there is a person who is out of touch with reality. The 5 series was a breakthrough for NAIM and is some of the best equipment they have ever made. There is nothing about the Nait-2 or 1 that is better than the Nait-5. You may not want to pay 1600 bucks for the honor of upgrading, but that does not the Nait 5 worse.
Likewise anyone who thinks Linn equipment of 15 or 20 years ago sounds better than their current offerings is fooling themselves. The LK-1 & 2 were Linn's first attempt at electronics. While they were a good try, there was a lot to be learned. They were prone to EMI, there powersupplies were under engineered and other newbie mistakes. I felt they could best be discribed as marginally above average. Later, there was steady improvement the LK-280, LK-100 were better units still. The most recent lineup of Klout, LK-140, Kairn were very excelent indeed and the new trickle down SMPS based equipment is better than ever.
You will see a great deal of new equipment this year from Linn that appears to be astounding. The UnidisK 1.1 SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V/CD universal silver disk player that will play any disk format and has CD perfomance in excess of Ikemi levels will be out at CES, as well as the Kisto 7.1 processor and the trickle down Kairn 2 channel replacement. You will soon see all of the obsolete transformer based PS units phased out of their lineup now that the Brilliant technology has been perfected and the cost of manufacture has been reduced.

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...UnidisK 1.1 SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V/CD universal silver disk player...

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-or-

Take one Classic Movie, rip out half of its guts, shake well and, add a sprinkle of SACD/DVA-A to taste.

Craig

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Originally posted by Craig Best:
[QUOTE]...UnidisK 1.1 SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V/CD universal silver disk playe] -is -

Take one Classic Movie, rip out half of its guts, shake well and, add a sprinkle of SACD/DVA-A to taste.
Craig

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What inteligent company does not learn from past projects and incorporate the fruits of their labor. I can tell you that the UnidisK does not share much with the Classik Movie has an off the shelf DVD mechanism. The UnidisK has the Silver DisK engine which was a joint development with Sony costing hundreds of thousands of pounds which will be licensed to other high end manufacurers. Some operating software is shared, but the electronics are completely different and are part of a long and expensive collaboration with Sony.

Dupree,

You're not a Linn dealer by any chance now are you?

Regardless, thanks for letting us all know the true identity of Lucifer.

Craig
PS. If you are going to quote my rants then please don't edit my words. I specifically used the separator '- or -' to indicate that the second part of my post was tongue in cheek conjecture as to what lemons Linn might use as source for their new mixer. In return I shall endeavor to punctuate with a question mark to help good readers such as yourself better understand my dry sense of humour.

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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
The differences between the amps were consistent across the speakers. Sources were CDS2, CD12, or LP12/Lingo/Ar0/Helikon SL, into a 52.

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Bob,
sincerely, I'm not particularly surprised about your findings here, given you've used a 52 as a preamp - in my experience mixed Linn/Naim electronics have never worked convincingly. I've a certain suspect that results could have been exactly reversed using something like - say - a Klimax Kontrol.
Just my 2 cents...

All the best
Ciao
Paolo

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I'm not particularly surprised about your findings here, given you've used a 52 as a preamp - in my experience mixed Linn/Naim electronics have never worked convincingly.

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I agree 100%, also the fact of the matter is that until the Kontrol Linn did not have a preamp that could touch either the 52 or 82. The 5103 did a respectable job, but was not up to the task of either of the flagship Naim Pre's. With that said, I think with the right preamp, from my experience the Klimax Solo's outperform the NAP 500 handily. The Linn Preamps have gotten long in the tooth and you will soon see them replaced. Also, with that said, the NAP500/82 combo that I heard was also very impressive. I am anxious to hear the NAP-300, because this seems as if it might be the sweetspot in the line. It is true that the Klimax Twin offers very very near Klimax performance for 1/2 the price, I am hoping that the 300 will be a baby 500 as well.