Naim DAC - part 2
Posted by: james n on 08 July 2009
Well i managed to slip out of work and i've seen the DAC myself now - i've been very interested given my front end is computer driven. I was quite lucky to get there early and so had the dem to myself. Unfortunately my dealer had laid on some live music. Just a girl and a guitar and she was superb and set a standard that the systems i would hear couldn't really compete with - i could have stayed and listened much longer but the DAC was calling...
Lets get the speakers out of the way first. Good looking and some very interesting design features. Sound, well the room wasn't ideal but i thought the Ovators had too much bass - almost like a badly adjusted sub. Mid and treble good though - very clean and detailed without harshness. This was driven via a 555/552/500 system.
Next up the new CDX2 with its switchable S/PDIF output. This sounded good, in fact i thought the Ovators bass was better on the end of the CDX2, mainly as the 555 goes so deep it wasn't doing the speakers any favours.
Onto the DAC - This is quite an assuming box as most have you have seen. Inputs are 4 Toslink, and 4 Coax - two of these are via BNC the other two RCA. Audio output is via DIN or RCA and there is the Burndy connector to allow PSU upgrades. USB connectors on the front and rear for an iPod or memory stick.
Internals - Jason explained that Jitter had been eliminated on the S/PDIF interface by clocking the data into memory and then clocking back out into another buffer which is synchronised to the internal clock - nothing very new there although i'll await the white paper with interest to see if Naim are doing something innovative with regards to jitter reduction.
The sound - well it was (to me) better than the CDX2 - voices had more presence more detail and the music flowed better. How good that it is i don't know - its better than the CDX2 but does that mean the DAC is a lot better or the standard CDX2 output stage isn't that hot. I'm sure that is not the case and for any CDX2 owners it'll be a decent upgrade with the option to add a PSU for further sonic pleasure.
The other thing the DAC does is that it'll play files from a memory stick and iPod. I'm a bit confused on the iPod side of things as the iPod is connected via the USB connector - Wadia connect to the Dock connector to take the raw digital data out of the iPod. As i see it (and i may be wrong), i'm not convinced that the DAC is 'doing a Wadia' - its just playing files from the iPod with the DAC providing 'transport' controls as i'm sure the USB interface wouldnt support raw data unless its in a proprietary format and the DAC is doing something else with it.
I was dissapointed to see no computer driving the DAC as with perfect jitter reduction it shouldnt really make a difference - Jason explained that the transports would sound different - but at this point i'm not too convinced. We then got onto computer ripping but again my own findings are different.
So is the DAC for me ? - well probably not. I'm not convinced by a fancy S/PDIF interface as being a good option for computer audio. The iPod connectivity is probably useful but seems a bit of an afterthought. I'd also need to hear it in my own system - the room, system and music was unfamiliar so no point of reference for me. As a digital hub in an all Naim system and an upgrade to HDX/CDX etc i'm sure it'll be a winner.
James
Lets get the speakers out of the way first. Good looking and some very interesting design features. Sound, well the room wasn't ideal but i thought the Ovators had too much bass - almost like a badly adjusted sub. Mid and treble good though - very clean and detailed without harshness. This was driven via a 555/552/500 system.
Next up the new CDX2 with its switchable S/PDIF output. This sounded good, in fact i thought the Ovators bass was better on the end of the CDX2, mainly as the 555 goes so deep it wasn't doing the speakers any favours.
Onto the DAC - This is quite an assuming box as most have you have seen. Inputs are 4 Toslink, and 4 Coax - two of these are via BNC the other two RCA. Audio output is via DIN or RCA and there is the Burndy connector to allow PSU upgrades. USB connectors on the front and rear for an iPod or memory stick.
Internals - Jason explained that Jitter had been eliminated on the S/PDIF interface by clocking the data into memory and then clocking back out into another buffer which is synchronised to the internal clock - nothing very new there although i'll await the white paper with interest to see if Naim are doing something innovative with regards to jitter reduction.
The sound - well it was (to me) better than the CDX2 - voices had more presence more detail and the music flowed better. How good that it is i don't know - its better than the CDX2 but does that mean the DAC is a lot better or the standard CDX2 output stage isn't that hot. I'm sure that is not the case and for any CDX2 owners it'll be a decent upgrade with the option to add a PSU for further sonic pleasure.
The other thing the DAC does is that it'll play files from a memory stick and iPod. I'm a bit confused on the iPod side of things as the iPod is connected via the USB connector - Wadia connect to the Dock connector to take the raw digital data out of the iPod. As i see it (and i may be wrong), i'm not convinced that the DAC is 'doing a Wadia' - its just playing files from the iPod with the DAC providing 'transport' controls as i'm sure the USB interface wouldnt support raw data unless its in a proprietary format and the DAC is doing something else with it.
I was dissapointed to see no computer driving the DAC as with perfect jitter reduction it shouldnt really make a difference - Jason explained that the transports would sound different - but at this point i'm not too convinced. We then got onto computer ripping but again my own findings are different.
So is the DAC for me ? - well probably not. I'm not convinced by a fancy S/PDIF interface as being a good option for computer audio. The iPod connectivity is probably useful but seems a bit of an afterthought. I'd also need to hear it in my own system - the room, system and music was unfamiliar so no point of reference for me. As a digital hub in an all Naim system and an upgrade to HDX/CDX etc i'm sure it'll be a winner.
James
quote:Originally posted by goldfinch:
if only Naim would launch a streamer for the DAC...
That is probably next... More and more and more boxes.
Imagine a Naim Streamer, upgradeable with two 555PS.
So in order to do what most require, we all need to buy an HDX, a Naim DAC, a slew of power supplies, and a third party option for streaming? and a NAS most likely....
It makes sense from Naim's perspective to not make a USB DAC now that I think about it. Mo' Money!!!
In the end, maybe whilst alienating most of their current customer base with the new speaker line, XS whatnot, and strange approach to Distributed Audio (HDX, UNiti, DAC), they will most likely summon many new potential customers down the line. One's without preconceived notions of what they want or expect from Naim.
Nothing's for everyone but I'll be quite happy with a $300 TC firewired to my lappedtop 
when I need to use a PC...depending on the overall performance. TC can take a firewire drive in the chain to store files that can be controlled by the laptop so no need for more than the quick laptop firewire plug up to play a large library even without ethernet. An ethernet cable or wifi allows the system to play from anywhere in a network.
Not what some will want but I tend to find a way to make things work for me if I like them enough. That part remains to be seen. The interface was never going to be a deal breaker for me. Can't please every one.
I'm also still a bit baffled by the Ipod/Iphone thing as I wasn't aware they could stream via a standard USB. We do know that the DAC has a player and that you can play Ipod files via usb through Itunes. It's not that far fetched to think that there are ways to do this unconventionally though conventional streaming would seem more likely.
when I need to use a PC...depending on the overall performance. TC can take a firewire drive in the chain to store files that can be controlled by the laptop so no need for more than the quick laptop firewire plug up to play a large library even without ethernet. An ethernet cable or wifi allows the system to play from anywhere in a network.Not what some will want but I tend to find a way to make things work for me if I like them enough. That part remains to be seen. The interface was never going to be a deal breaker for me. Can't please every one.
I'm also still a bit baffled by the Ipod/Iphone thing as I wasn't aware they could stream via a standard USB. We do know that the DAC has a player and that you can play Ipod files via usb through Itunes. It's not that far fetched to think that there are ways to do this unconventionally though conventional streaming would seem more likely.
Not just for better music? 
The cards are cheap, easy and lots already have firewire. Both my PC and laptop had it. There are already so many variables at a USB out. ASIO or not. Rips. Player. etc.
MAC/Amarra or PC/ASIO to a TC will give VG repeatable results without much complexity if a computer is what you want to do. Like I said, not for every one but if the DAC is special, I suspect many will find a way.
It's clearly not just for their front ends but of course it's an important aspect. It's a DAC that does a bit more. I would have been fine without even the bit more as long as it sings. AES/EBU is easily converted down passively without adding jitter etc. None of these are big issues unless you personally view them as such and all are allowed to have that view too.
I fully understand the feeling of those here that are approaching this as 'It isn't for me unless it forces me to buy it by being that good'. We'll all have to wait and see if it is.
The cards are cheap, easy and lots already have firewire. Both my PC and laptop had it. There are already so many variables at a USB out. ASIO or not. Rips. Player. etc. MAC/Amarra or PC/ASIO to a TC will give VG repeatable results without much complexity if a computer is what you want to do. Like I said, not for every one but if the DAC is special, I suspect many will find a way.
It's clearly not just for their front ends but of course it's an important aspect. It's a DAC that does a bit more. I would have been fine without even the bit more as long as it sings. AES/EBU is easily converted down passively without adding jitter etc. None of these are big issues unless you personally view them as such and all are allowed to have that view too.
I fully understand the feeling of those here that are approaching this as 'It isn't for me unless it forces me to buy it by being that good'. We'll all have to wait and see if it is.
Thanks for the write up James.
Interesting to read yet another lukewarm response to the Ovaries....It seems as though every report from these road shows is peppered with 'perhaps the room wasn't ideal' as an excuse, which I must admit makes me scratch my head and is becoming rather funny...All seems arse about face to me...I thought the aim of the new speaker range was to be generally more appealing, user friendly and to reach out to a wider audience than in the past - but, it seems, the room has to be 'perfect' !
As for the DAC, it just gets weirder and weirder...I personally couldn't give a toss for the iPod facility - nice if it's there, sure - but it really isn't why I would be purchasing a £2k DAC. Surely this territory & market covered by the Uniti. It's great that the HDX and new CDPs gain a noticeable improvement with the DAC (although I still have something of an issue as to why it takes a £2k addition to do so) but I really feel it's becoming increasing narrow minded to leave it there - Naim have an opportunity here to release a killer product (much like the Uniti is being received) but I can't help feeling someone or something has the hand-brake on....As I have written elsewhere, to tour a DAC around on demo and yet not use or even mention a computer source just seems, well, daft...
Computers are where we are going (and arguably we are here now) and DACS are becoming the audio central HUB to all of this.....It just seems that in Naim's world, the DAC is merely another upgrade box for your CDP and whilst that's great (I'm sure it sounds fantastic) it's also short sighted....
I personally would have like to have seen 2 DACS released. One, at around the mark we are looking at here, designated for 2 channel audio. Coax, Optical, USB (streaming) inputs. The 2nd, perhaps for £1k+ more, would be the same but with the addition of DD & DTS HD surround processing. HDMI in & Out added to the rear. Presumably a small front screen would be needed (or, supply of a decent remote).....Oh well !
Interesting to read yet another lukewarm response to the Ovaries....It seems as though every report from these road shows is peppered with 'perhaps the room wasn't ideal' as an excuse, which I must admit makes me scratch my head and is becoming rather funny...All seems arse about face to me...I thought the aim of the new speaker range was to be generally more appealing, user friendly and to reach out to a wider audience than in the past - but, it seems, the room has to be 'perfect' !
As for the DAC, it just gets weirder and weirder...I personally couldn't give a toss for the iPod facility - nice if it's there, sure - but it really isn't why I would be purchasing a £2k DAC. Surely this territory & market covered by the Uniti. It's great that the HDX and new CDPs gain a noticeable improvement with the DAC (although I still have something of an issue as to why it takes a £2k addition to do so) but I really feel it's becoming increasing narrow minded to leave it there - Naim have an opportunity here to release a killer product (much like the Uniti is being received) but I can't help feeling someone or something has the hand-brake on....As I have written elsewhere, to tour a DAC around on demo and yet not use or even mention a computer source just seems, well, daft...
Computers are where we are going (and arguably we are here now) and DACS are becoming the audio central HUB to all of this.....It just seems that in Naim's world, the DAC is merely another upgrade box for your CDP and whilst that's great (I'm sure it sounds fantastic) it's also short sighted....
I personally would have like to have seen 2 DACS released. One, at around the mark we are looking at here, designated for 2 channel audio. Coax, Optical, USB (streaming) inputs. The 2nd, perhaps for £1k+ more, would be the same but with the addition of DD & DTS HD surround processing. HDMI in & Out added to the rear. Presumably a small front screen would be needed (or, supply of a decent remote).....Oh well !