Naim DAC - part 2
Posted by: james n on 08 July 2009
Well i managed to slip out of work and i've seen the DAC myself now - i've been very interested given my front end is computer driven. I was quite lucky to get there early and so had the dem to myself. Unfortunately my dealer had laid on some live music. Just a girl and a guitar and she was superb and set a standard that the systems i would hear couldn't really compete with - i could have stayed and listened much longer but the DAC was calling...
Lets get the speakers out of the way first. Good looking and some very interesting design features. Sound, well the room wasn't ideal but i thought the Ovators had too much bass - almost like a badly adjusted sub. Mid and treble good though - very clean and detailed without harshness. This was driven via a 555/552/500 system.
Next up the new CDX2 with its switchable S/PDIF output. This sounded good, in fact i thought the Ovators bass was better on the end of the CDX2, mainly as the 555 goes so deep it wasn't doing the speakers any favours.
Onto the DAC - This is quite an assuming box as most have you have seen. Inputs are 4 Toslink, and 4 Coax - two of these are via BNC the other two RCA. Audio output is via DIN or RCA and there is the Burndy connector to allow PSU upgrades. USB connectors on the front and rear for an iPod or memory stick.
Internals - Jason explained that Jitter had been eliminated on the S/PDIF interface by clocking the data into memory and then clocking back out into another buffer which is synchronised to the internal clock - nothing very new there although i'll await the white paper with interest to see if Naim are doing something innovative with regards to jitter reduction.
The sound - well it was (to me) better than the CDX2 - voices had more presence more detail and the music flowed better. How good that it is i don't know - its better than the CDX2 but does that mean the DAC is a lot better or the standard CDX2 output stage isn't that hot. I'm sure that is not the case and for any CDX2 owners it'll be a decent upgrade with the option to add a PSU for further sonic pleasure.
The other thing the DAC does is that it'll play files from a memory stick and iPod. I'm a bit confused on the iPod side of things as the iPod is connected via the USB connector - Wadia connect to the Dock connector to take the raw digital data out of the iPod. As i see it (and i may be wrong), i'm not convinced that the DAC is 'doing a Wadia' - its just playing files from the iPod with the DAC providing 'transport' controls as i'm sure the USB interface wouldnt support raw data unless its in a proprietary format and the DAC is doing something else with it.
I was dissapointed to see no computer driving the DAC as with perfect jitter reduction it shouldnt really make a difference - Jason explained that the transports would sound different - but at this point i'm not too convinced. We then got onto computer ripping but again my own findings are different.
So is the DAC for me ? - well probably not. I'm not convinced by a fancy S/PDIF interface as being a good option for computer audio. The iPod connectivity is probably useful but seems a bit of an afterthought. I'd also need to hear it in my own system - the room, system and music was unfamiliar so no point of reference for me. As a digital hub in an all Naim system and an upgrade to HDX/CDX etc i'm sure it'll be a winner.
James
Lets get the speakers out of the way first. Good looking and some very interesting design features. Sound, well the room wasn't ideal but i thought the Ovators had too much bass - almost like a badly adjusted sub. Mid and treble good though - very clean and detailed without harshness. This was driven via a 555/552/500 system.
Next up the new CDX2 with its switchable S/PDIF output. This sounded good, in fact i thought the Ovators bass was better on the end of the CDX2, mainly as the 555 goes so deep it wasn't doing the speakers any favours.
Onto the DAC - This is quite an assuming box as most have you have seen. Inputs are 4 Toslink, and 4 Coax - two of these are via BNC the other two RCA. Audio output is via DIN or RCA and there is the Burndy connector to allow PSU upgrades. USB connectors on the front and rear for an iPod or memory stick.
Internals - Jason explained that Jitter had been eliminated on the S/PDIF interface by clocking the data into memory and then clocking back out into another buffer which is synchronised to the internal clock - nothing very new there although i'll await the white paper with interest to see if Naim are doing something innovative with regards to jitter reduction.
The sound - well it was (to me) better than the CDX2 - voices had more presence more detail and the music flowed better. How good that it is i don't know - its better than the CDX2 but does that mean the DAC is a lot better or the standard CDX2 output stage isn't that hot. I'm sure that is not the case and for any CDX2 owners it'll be a decent upgrade with the option to add a PSU for further sonic pleasure.
The other thing the DAC does is that it'll play files from a memory stick and iPod. I'm a bit confused on the iPod side of things as the iPod is connected via the USB connector - Wadia connect to the Dock connector to take the raw digital data out of the iPod. As i see it (and i may be wrong), i'm not convinced that the DAC is 'doing a Wadia' - its just playing files from the iPod with the DAC providing 'transport' controls as i'm sure the USB interface wouldnt support raw data unless its in a proprietary format and the DAC is doing something else with it.
I was dissapointed to see no computer driving the DAC as with perfect jitter reduction it shouldnt really make a difference - Jason explained that the transports would sound different - but at this point i'm not too convinced. We then got onto computer ripping but again my own findings are different.
So is the DAC for me ? - well probably not. I'm not convinced by a fancy S/PDIF interface as being a good option for computer audio. The iPod connectivity is probably useful but seems a bit of an afterthought. I'd also need to hear it in my own system - the room, system and music was unfamiliar so no point of reference for me. As a digital hub in an all Naim system and an upgrade to HDX/CDX etc i'm sure it'll be a winner.
James
quote:Originally posted by ryan_d:
...Mark kinda had to hot wire the dac to get the optical input working, but he was very interested in hearing for himself and was more than accommodating.
You'd kinda think they may have tested this behind closed doors first...?
if Naim are a bit short of funds or have no computers on site at Salisbury, I will gladly fund them one or they can borrow one of my Macs......
quote:Originally posted by SC:quote:Originally posted by ryan_d:
...Mark kinda had to hot wire the dac to get the optical input working, but he was very interested in hearing for himself and was more than accommodating.
You'd kinda think they may have tested this behind closed doors first...?
That's unfair, the DAC is still in development.
quote:Originally posted by Naijeru:quote:Originally posted by SC:quote:Originally posted by ryan_d:
...Mark kinda had to hot wire the dac to get the optical input working, but he was very interested in hearing for himself and was more than accommodating.
You'd kinda think they may have tested this behind closed doors first...?
That's unfair, the DAC is still in development.
Give us a break !!!!
It was shown as prototype back in March at Bristol....It is now on Naim's OWN summer-sounds tour around the UK.....Are you seriously saying with a straight face that it's understandable they haven't got round to testing/listening or for that matter, wiring up the optical inputs...for er, computers....???????????
[shakes head and wants to go and die in the corner smiley]
Steve.
quote:Originally posted by ryan_d:
I was told production models should be available from late August/early September.
And today is July 19th, your demo was on the 18th....As you have stated, at this date, the optical connections hadn't even been wired, let alone listened to with a computer....?
Not looking good for production, in my opinion....Ryan, I wasn't aiming at you, at all, far from it....Just flailing at this developing farce....Perhaps you're right, it's a pointless argument, which for me results in an even sadder smiley.....
quote:Originally posted by SC:
Give us a break !!!!
It was shown as prototype back in March at Bristol....It is now on Naim's OWN summer-sounds tour around the UK.....Are you seriously saying with a straight face that it's understandable they haven't got round to testing/listening or for that matter, wiring up the optical inputs...for er, computers....???????????
[shakes head and wants to go and die in the corner smiley]
Steve.
No, I'm responding only to the fact that it had to be hot wired to get the optical output working, which is what you seemed to be referring to. I'm sympathetic to what the engineers at Naim must be going through to develop such a hotly anticipated product as this one. Having had to prepare products for demo myself I understand there's a lot of sleepless nights and burning of midnight oil to make a milestone like the Summer Sounds tour. I don't find it unreasonable that a prototype this late in the development process isn't fully functional. That's why it's a called a prototype.
Naijeru - Out of curiosity, why are you sympathetic ? Who imposed a deadline ? As I pointed out, this is Naim's OWN road-show, on dates of their making, not some international HiFi show that they were late in getting prepared for...If the box wasn't ready to their, or perhaps more importantly, potential customer satisfaction, why bring it along ?....I fully understand prototypes (being a trained architect & now graphic designer), but one would presume working connections as fundamental as this to a DAC would be in place - this is not exactly 'rough unpolished clothing' territory.......Besides, what I was really freaked about was the fact that Mark/Naim was 'interested in hearing himself' what the input sounded like........I'm sorry, I personally don't find that encouraging.....
Anyway, enough, it's the final holes of the golf...!
Anyway, enough, it's the final holes of the golf...!
quote:Originally posted by SC:
Naijeru - Out of curiosity, why are you sympathetic ? Who imposed a deadline ? As I pointed out, this is Naim's OWN road-show, on dates of their making, not some international HiFi show that they were late in getting prepared for...If the box wasn't ready to their, or perhaps more importantly, potential customer satisfaction, why bring it along ?....I fully understand prototypes (being a trained architect & now graphic designer), but one would presume working connections as fundamental as this to a DAC would be in place - this is not exactly 'rough unpolished clothing' territory.......Besides, what I was really freaked about was the fact that Mark/Naim was 'interested in hearing himself' what the input sounded like........I'm sorry, I personally don't find that encouraging.....
Anyway, enough, it's the final holes of the golf...!
No worries, I'm taking all of this in stride. Although I have tremendous interest in the DAC, I already have one that sounds amazing in my system. I'm sympathetic because I've been through enough late night welding, assembling and coding sessions to imagine what happened in the days leading up to the road show and why the optical inputs may have been overlooked. And I agree with you, it is odd that such a vital feature would have been neglected. Mark's comment doesn't trouble me too much because I remember hearing that there had been a major improvement to the DAC just before the tour and he may not have had a recent demo. Until there's a white paper detailing the specs and a production version available to demo I'll cut Naim some slack.