Naim DAC - part 2

Posted by: james n on 08 July 2009

Well i managed to slip out of work and i've seen the DAC myself now - i've been very interested given my front end is computer driven. I was quite lucky to get there early and so had the dem to myself. Unfortunately my dealer had laid on some live music. Just a girl and a guitar and she was superb and set a standard that the systems i would hear couldn't really compete with - i could have stayed and listened much longer but the DAC was calling...

Lets get the speakers out of the way first. Good looking and some very interesting design features. Sound, well the room wasn't ideal but i thought the Ovators had too much bass - almost like a badly adjusted sub. Mid and treble good though - very clean and detailed without harshness. This was driven via a 555/552/500 system.

Next up the new CDX2 with its switchable S/PDIF output. This sounded good, in fact i thought the Ovators bass was better on the end of the CDX2, mainly as the 555 goes so deep it wasn't doing the speakers any favours.

Onto the DAC - This is quite an assuming box as most have you have seen. Inputs are 4 Toslink, and 4 Coax - two of these are via BNC the other two RCA. Audio output is via DIN or RCA and there is the Burndy connector to allow PSU upgrades. USB connectors on the front and rear for an iPod or memory stick.

Internals - Jason explained that Jitter had been eliminated on the S/PDIF interface by clocking the data into memory and then clocking back out into another buffer which is synchronised to the internal clock - nothing very new there although i'll await the white paper with interest to see if Naim are doing something innovative with regards to jitter reduction.

The sound - well it was (to me) better than the CDX2 - voices had more presence more detail and the music flowed better. How good that it is i don't know - its better than the CDX2 but does that mean the DAC is a lot better or the standard CDX2 output stage isn't that hot. I'm sure that is not the case and for any CDX2 owners it'll be a decent upgrade with the option to add a PSU for further sonic pleasure.

The other thing the DAC does is that it'll play files from a memory stick and iPod. I'm a bit confused on the iPod side of things as the iPod is connected via the USB connector - Wadia connect to the Dock connector to take the raw digital data out of the iPod. As i see it (and i may be wrong), i'm not convinced that the DAC is 'doing a Wadia' - its just playing files from the iPod with the DAC providing 'transport' controls as i'm sure the USB interface wouldnt support raw data unless its in a proprietary format and the DAC is doing something else with it.

I was dissapointed to see no computer driving the DAC as with perfect jitter reduction it shouldnt really make a difference - Jason explained that the transports would sound different - but at this point i'm not too convinced. We then got onto computer ripping but again my own findings are different.

So is the DAC for me ? - well probably not. I'm not convinced by a fancy S/PDIF interface as being a good option for computer audio. The iPod connectivity is probably useful but seems a bit of an afterthought. I'd also need to hear it in my own system - the room, system and music was unfamiliar so no point of reference for me. As a digital hub in an all Naim system and an upgrade to HDX/CDX etc i'm sure it'll be a winner.

James
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by Consciousmess
Will the CDS3 be modified as well?

Will they put a digital out on the CDS3 that can then be upgraded with the DAC???

That would be great!!!

Jon
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by u5227470736789439
If they do not then one might guess that the internal DAC in the CDS3 is actually as fine or better than the off-board one being released sometime soon ...
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by Guido Fawkes
or that the transport section of the CDS3 is on a par with that of the CDX2 ....

A CDS3 would not ne as attractive as a transport because you'd need the XPS2 to drive it and a 555PS for the nDAC - that is one expensive set-up.
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by likesmusic
Trying to get information about the DAC from NAIM on this forum is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

By contrast, Linn engineers have just hosted an online live Q&A Session.

http://news.linn.co.uk/news/20...inn-ds-online-qa.php
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by pcstockton
Just like there is no one DAC solution for all, there isn't a forum that pleases everyone either! Winker

-p
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by james n
quote:
By contrast, Linn engineers have just hosted an online live Q&A Session.


Very good - i thought the engineers talking about the Radikal was very interesting too. Naim take note.

James
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by glevethan
Yes I have to admit that in these challenging economic times one would think that companies would welcome the opportunity to release as much information as possible, IN ADVANCE, of upcoming products. Seems like a good way to build advance buzz and stimulate some appetites. The lack of information just leads to apathy and temptation for customers to go in other directions.

Gregg
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by GrahamFinch
quote:
If they do not then one might guess that the internal DAC in the CDS3 is actually as fine or better than the off-board one being released sometime soon ...


The chip in the new DAC is the one from the 555 cd player so it is obviously better than the one in the cds3.

As has been pointed out the cds3 does not have its own inbuilt ps so assuming it could be modified to provide a digital output (not necessarily a given) it would need to have its own external ps. The dac can be powered by its native supply but sounds so much better with an external ps.

I think Naim have been very up front in telling people about their new dac. They first showed it in Bristol in February as a prototype and they have slowly tweaked it through the summer roadshows. It is now almost ready to be released.

What other manufacturers show prototype hifi equipment?? The risk is that somebody hearing an early prototype may be put off buying the final version even though the latter may have been modified considerably since its first airing. Very brave of Naim to do this I think.

The same is true in respect of their Ovator speaker.
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by js
Same DAC in all 3.
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by gary1 (US)
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamFinch:
What other manufacturers show prototype hifi equipment?? The risk is that somebody hearing an early prototype may be put off buying the final version even though the latter may have been modified considerably since its first airing. Very brave of Naim to do this I think.

The same is true in respect of their Ovator speaker.


Yes, this what happened with the HDX and the final product was far better than the prototype on the road shows.
Posted on: 23 July 2009 by SC
quote:
Originally posted by likesmusic:
Trying to get information about the DAC from NAIM on this forum is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

By contrast, Linn engineers have just hosted an online live Q&A Session.

Hey, consider yourself lucky! If you find this frustrating, don't ever go into the Home-Theatre room...! Winker Confused Eek
Posted on: 24 July 2009 by gone
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamFinch:
... Very brave of Naim to do this I think.

The same is true in respect of their Ovator speaker.


Not sure it's so brave - shirley it's standard bathtub curve marketing. Once you've got a good fix on the final product and the delivery schedule, get it out there amongst the masses to create some noise and babble, get some initial response. You've always got the 'bad room acoustics' excuse if you need it, as no-one can give a proper opinion until the finished article is at home on demo. But if the product's 90% of the finished article, then that's enough to generate pre-bookings, so the product hits the ground running when deliverable.
It would be crazy to completely finish the product and then launch it on an unsuspecting audience - you'd have boxes sitting in warehouses for weeks.
The only risk is the delivery date slipping, for many possible reasons.
I'm not saying this is what Naim is doing, but I'm not sure they are being brave - just smart.
I've already budgeted for a DAC, so the cash is available from Day 1
Posted on: 24 July 2009 by BigH47
I thought I heard the same as Graham that the DAC dac was from the CD555, by inference then, different to the other CDP DACs. It would seem spidf O/P conversion on other CDPS, has not been ruled out ,just pretty unlikely. May be a one way conversion to "transport only" is a possibility ,again unlikely.
Personally the DAC sounded good, but I still struggle to find a use for it in my setup, and would be better off spending £2000 on some thing else.
HDX certainly sounded better this time , over last years Summer Sound version.
Posted on: 24 July 2009 by js
CDS3 also has the BB PCM1704K.
Posted on: 25 July 2009 by james n
quote:
The DAC had the WOW FACTOR BIG TIME.


I think you need to get it home (as we all do) - i did think it sounded good, but the bare CDX2 sounded very poor which really suprised me. How it stacks up against other boxes will be very interesting Smile

James
Posted on: 25 July 2009 by ryan_d
Did either of you try it as with computer as transport/source?

James, if you do try it at home I'd be very interested to hear what your thoughts are in comparison to the Weiss...not just in quality terms, but also presentation ie Naim sound v's other manufacturer.

All the best

Ryan
Posted on: 25 July 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by munch:

The DAC had the WOW FACTOR BIG TIME.


Thats what I want to hear!

How do you, or can you, compare this to a bare HDX?
Posted on: 25 July 2009 by ryan_d
SImply better when I heard it.

R