Margaret Thatcher recognised

Posted by: Mick P on 21 February 2007

Chaps

Today is a joyful one, a Labour governemt has recognised that Magaret Thatcher transformed our nation from the poor man of Europe into Great Britain.

A bronze statue of her is now on display in Parliament.

She confounded her enemies and has a league of fans like no other living politician.

There are those who dislike her but by now, even those useless plebs must recognise the fact, she made us what we are today.

Long may she continue to live and influence future Prime Ministers.

A great and wonderful woman.

Her legacy lives on.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Howlinhounddog

Can I suggest another statue I would like to see

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Chris Kelly

The great thing about statues is the wonderful images they make for tv when the mob pulls them down after the revolution/war/uprising/coup.

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Kevin-W

quote:
Originally posted by Diode100:

The vast majority of UK citizens were opposed to the poll tax - were they really - are you sure ? Would that be the same vast majority who appear to have demanded the fox hunting ban, or the dismantlement of the house of lords ?

Before the Poll Tax, there was the General Rate which was based on the value of your house, the argument against that was that the little old lady living on her own in her three bed semi was paying the same as the family of six living next door, but only using one sixth of the services - clearly an unfair situation. Poll Tax was introduced to rectify this, by making the people who use more of the services liable for more of the cost of the services. Now what is unfair about that ? If your multimillionaire banker chooses to live alone in his six bedroom riverside duplex why should he pay more ?

The fairness or otherwise of a tax is based on ability to pay, otherwise they are regressive (VAT being a good example of a highly unfair, regressive tax; as is the BBC licence fee; and duties generally). A banker living in a luxury pad obviously has more money than our bedsit-bound war widow, so surely he should pay more? Whether anyone uses more of services is largely irrelevant - or are yousaying that someone who sends their kids to private school and who uses BUPA should pay less tax than someone who uses state education and the NHS?

Fair taxes should benefit all members of society, and should be based on ability to pay, ie linked to how much you earn.

Personally I would scrap all taxes and duties and just have a higher rate of income tax (providing retailers and other providors of goods and services were to pass the duty back to the consumer in the form of savings).

K

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Willy

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:

Personally I would scrap all taxes and duties and just have a higher rate of income tax (providing retailers and other providors of goods and services were to pass the duty back to the consumer in the form of savings).

K

Now if you can also simplify the system so I don't have to pay an accountant £300 to do tax returns you just bought my vote!

Regards,

Willy.

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by London Lad

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
quote:
Originally posted by London Lad:
The only thing Thatcher did wrong with the poll tax was not putting the army on the street to enforce it.

It would have been the fairest tax ever (if there is such a thing) One charge for one person consuming one lot of services. Straight forward and fair.

What have we got now? Dozens of scum in one house pay next to nothing while an old couple who have worked hard all their lives to spend their retirement in a decent home get charged the earth and if this Labour government get their way it will get even worse.

Is this a wind up, or are you simply a cretin?

The vast majority of UK citizens were opposed to the poll tax, with many making their feelings known. As we live in a democracy (rather than the absolutist monarchy of Richard II or Thatch's fevered imaginings), sending in the troops was never an option. Thank goodness.

As for your absurd assertion about the poll tax being "the fairest tax ever", said tax could not be a fair tax as it was by its definition, regressive. The only fair taxes are those based on one's ability to pay. There is nothing fair about a war widow living in a one-bedroomed flat paying the same as a multimillionaire banker living in a six-bedroom riverside duplex. Or is there in your particular boook?

All the best

K

In answer to my first question, recalling some of your previous posts, I have to conclude that you are in fact merely a dolt rather than a Parryesque blimp.

The vast majority of lazy, spongers were opposed to the poll tax, very few of the hard working entrepreneurial people who create the wealth were opposed to it.

Nothing based on ability to pay is fair, it is just a system that punishes success and rewards laziness and failure.

As for the personal comments, I may or may not be a dolt (stupid person) and I will admit that my formal academic education is limited but I did still manage to build a company from scratch that employed 30 people and contributed a huge amount of income tax, corporation tax, national insurance and vat to the system. (I also managed to sell it for a few bob too)

What have you done 'Kevin'?

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by acad tsunami

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
[QUOTE]

In answer to my first question, recalling some of your previous posts, I have to conclude that you are in fact merely a dolt rather than a Parryesque blimp.

I must object to the gross error - to suggest that Parry is a blimp and not a dolt as well is an outrage. The man clearly has so little brains it is a wonder he has lived this long.

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Diccus62

quote:
Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
I would like to propose a virtual statue of Mick Parry, in recognition of his services to this forum.

Where are we gonna get all the dogs from? or as ROTF pointed out, all the bronze?

Posted on: 26 February 2007 by Deane F

quote:
Originally posted by London Lad:

very few of the hard working entrepreneurial people who create the wealth were opposed to it.

Hard working entrepreneurial people seldom actually create wealth. They devise method and provide capital. The workers on the "shop floor" do the actual "creation" of wealth.

quote:
What have you done 'Kevin'?

What a prick of a question. A businessman is no better than a politician in my view. Self-interested scumbags for the most part, who resent every penny the market forces them to pay to their workers.

I could be wrong about you, though, London Lad. Maybe you did what you did for England...

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Diode100

All this name calling & personal abuse is really quite pathetic, I think some members of this board should be made to stand in the corner for a while, till they learn to respect the views of others, however wild-assed they may be. Damn it, they're senior members as well, shouldn't they be setting an example for all us new comers ?

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Deane F

quote:
Originally posted by Diode100:

till they learn to respect the views of others

Define exactly what you mean by "respect" in that context. Then reconcile it with the concept of "difference of opinion".

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
A businessman is no better than a politician in my view. Self-interested scumbags for the most part, who resent every penny the market forces them to pay to their workers.

You have a much higher opinion of most (fat cat) businessmen and politicians than I have - still look on the bright side, the price of bronze is going up all the time, I wonder who is buying it all.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Willy

quote:
Originally posted by Diode100:
All this name calling & personal abuse is really quite pathetic, I think some members of this board should be made to stand in the corner for a while, till they learn to respect the views of others, however wild-assed they may be. Damn it, they're senior members as well, shouldn't they be setting an example for all us new comers ?

Seconded. Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "Violence is the last resort of a shallow person". IMHO some of the abusive language/name calling on here constitutes eViolence. If you can't cope with the fact that not everyone has the same point of view, and isn't persuaded by your carefully constructed arguments (such as calling them names?) then maybe you should try some anger management or seek a forum where everyone agrees with you?

Regards,

Willy.

Regards,

Willy.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by London Lad

quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:

Hard working entrepreneurial people seldom actually create wealth. They devise method and provide capital. The workers on the "shop floor" do the actual "creation" of wealth.

Try starting one without the other.

quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:

quote:
What have you done 'Kevin'?

What a prick of a question. .......................................

'Kevin' made the first personal comments, I just defended myself.

You and your friend use awful language.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by London Lad

quote:
Originally posted by Willy:

Seconded. Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "Violence is the last resort of a shallow person". IMHO some of the abusive language/name calling on here constitutes eViolence. If you can't cope with the fact that not everyone has the same point of view, and isn't persuaded by your carefully constructed arguments (such as calling them names?) then maybe you should try some anger management or seek a forum where everyone agrees with you?

Regards,

Willy.

Spot on

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by bigmick

quote:
Originally posted by Willy:
Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "Violence is the last resort of a shallow person".

It doesn't ring a bell. When did he say this?

I regard this

quote:
The vast majority of lazy, spongers were opposed to the poll tax

as pathetic and fairly abusive to a large tranche of the population, and from personal experience, from someone who has built up and still runs two successful companies, patently wrong.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Willy

quote:
Originally posted by bigmick:
quote:
Originally posted by Willy:
Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "Violence is the last resort of a shallow person".

It doesn't ring a bell. When did he say this?

Can't offhand attribute the quote to any particular event in his life. There are a couple of books here somewhere that may help narrow it down assuming I can find them.

I regard this
quote:
The vast majority of lazy, spongers were opposed to the poll tax
as pathetic and fairly abusive to a large tranche of the population, and from personal experience, from someone who has built up and still runs two successful companies, patently wrong.

Technically what's been said here is that "the majority of lazy spongers were opposed to the poll tax". Be carefull not to read it as "the majority of those opposed to the poll tax are/were lazy spongers". Proving the validity or otherwise of this assertion may be difficult as it would rely on canvassing the views of a representative cross section of "lazy spongers". Any volunteers?

Regards,

Willy.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Stephen Tate

How can lazy spongers be opposed to the poll tax when being on the dole your poll tax would be payed via housing benefit.

In my view the poll tax was unfair to school leavers trying to get their first job, especially when all those young think & stupid courses were the praise. (yts)

regards

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Kevin-W

quote:
Originally posted by London Lad:
The vast majority of lazy, spongers were opposed to the poll tax, very few of the hard working entrepreneurial people who create the wealth were opposed to it.

Nothing based on ability to pay is fair, it is just a system that punishes success and rewards laziness and failure.

As for the personal comments, I may or may not be a dolt (stupid person) and I will admit that my formal academic education is limited but I did still manage to build a company from scratch that employed 30 people and contributed a huge amount of income tax, corporation tax, national insurance and vat to the system. (I also managed to sell it for a few bob too)

What have you done 'Kevin'?

Dear Mr Lad

Well, I have obviously led a completely worthless life, especially when compared to yours. But I will try harder in future, and one day I hope to emulate you, paragon of virtue and philanthropy that you so obviously are. Perhaps you could give me some tips sometime, if you have a few spare moments.

All the best

"Kevin"

PS - No need to use quote marks - Kevin is actually my name.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by London Lad

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
quote:
Originally posted by London Lad:
The vast majority of lazy, spongers were opposed to the poll tax, very few of the hard working entrepreneurial people who create the wealth were opposed to it.

Nothing based on ability to pay is fair, it is just a system that punishes success and rewards laziness and failure.

As for the personal comments, I may or may not be a dolt (stupid person) and I will admit that my formal academic education is limited but I did still manage to build a company from scratch that employed 30 people and contributed a huge amount of income tax, corporation tax, national insurance and vat to the system. (I also managed to sell it for a few bob too)

What have you done 'Kevin'?

Dear Mr Lad

Well, I have obviously led a completely worthless life, especially when compared to yours. But I will try harder in future, and one day I hope to emulate you, paragon of virtue and philanthropy that you so obviously are. Perhaps you could give me some tips sometime, if you have a few spare moments.

All the best

"Kevin"

PS - No need to use quote marks - Kevin is actually my name.

Yes, certainly. Get up early, work hard all day (and half the night sometimes), solve your own problems, don't blame others for them and don't rely on the state for anything.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Kevin-W

quote:
Originally posted by bigmick:
quote:
Originally posted by Willy:
Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "Violence is the last resort of a shallow person".

It doesn't ring a bell. When did he say this?

Oscar Wilde actually said: "Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"; which, if you think about it, is a far more Wildean thing to saythan your original misquote.

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent", which may have been the quote you were after, was said, I think, by the writer Isaac Azimov when he was talking about his days in the US Navy (he served as a civilian during the War); or else, his short spell in the US Army in 1946 - can't remember which.

K

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by bigmick

Indeed Kevin I was fairly sure that it was Wilde had never said it.

As others have mentioned above lazy spongers didn't give a damn about the Poll Tax or indeed any tax as they are largely immune from any financial impact. The people that were affected were those who got up early, worked hard all day (and half the nights sometimes), solved their own problems, relied on the state for very little, yet got clobbered with a regressive and unfair tax. The majority of the people who thought the Poll Tax was a good idea did precious little real work.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Willy

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent"
K

If anything works better than my original misquote.

Despite my demonstrated incompetence in mixing my quotes I'll attempt to remain civil and not resort to any name calling.

Regards,

Willy.

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Kevin-W

quote:
Originally posted by Willy:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent"
K

If anything works better than my original misquote.

Despite my demonstrated incompetence in mixing my quotes I'll attempt to remain civil and not resort to any name calling.

Regards,

Willy.

I fear it doesn't. Violence has nothing to do with it. I can't remember anyone threatening anybody else on this thread (Adam would have modded it out in any case); I merely called somebody or other a cretin, which, based on the evidence on their posts within this thread, could be deemed fair comment.

If you and/or your friend Mr Lad choose to make idiotic and ill-informed comments you should not be so naive as to expect people to swallow them without comment; or pointing out their ludicrousness. If you don't like it, perhaps you should prepare a better argument next time around.

It's a free country, after all, despite your desire to send in the troops whenever anyone disagrees with the sainted Thatch and her (and her acolytes') policies.

Laters

K

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by bigmick

A more fitting quote from Wilde for Willy and Lad might be
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."

Posted on: 27 February 2007 by London Lad

quote:
Originally posted by bigmick:
Indeed Kevin I was fairly sure that it was Wilde had never said it.

As others have mentioned above lazy spongers didn't give a damn about the Poll Tax or indeed any tax as they are largely immune from any financial impact. The people that were affected were those who got up early, worked hard all day (and half the nights sometimes), solved their own problems, relied on the state for very little, yet got clobbered with a regressive and unfair tax. The majority of the people who thought the Poll Tax was a good idea did precious little real work.

As it happens, at the time of the poll tax it would have personally cost me more than I was currently paying in rates at the time but I still say one charge for one person consuming one set of services is fair.