Minimum wage

No.

The minimum wage for under 22s is not that low.

She should keep her payslips before blackmailing her employer...

Would seem they can:-

quote:

A new rate for 16 and 17 year olds
The Government has accepted the Low Pay Commission's recommendations for a new rate for 16 and 17 year olds (above compulsory school leaving age). £3.00 per hour from 1 October 2004 NB: 16 and 17 year old apprentices will be exempt from the new young workers rate.

MW HELP

Howard

And I thought,and hoped that slavery had been abolished. Another example of Blair kowtowing to the Magnates of industry at the expense of the traditional Labour voters. I wonder how many of my venerably collaegues on this forum, that no doupt will post their support of this insulting and miserly amount of money paid for full time employment, would turn up for work given the reward offered for such efforts, It unfortunately reminds me of the 75 pence increase that was offered to the pensioners.Godddd it makes me so angry.What was it Blairs wife recieved for a charity tour of Austraila she has just under took, something in excess of £100,000 has been reported. Plus of course the returns on her book that she took every opportunity to push/promote whilst she was there.Again a perfect example of the one rule for us and another rule for the rest.If he knew what had happend to his beloved Labour party under Blair and his cohorts, Kier Hardie must be rotating in his grave and cursing the day he first entered Parliament to fight for the rights of the working class, to see his ideals reduced to this Right Wing shammbles.
oldie.

Oldie

It is not a question of politics, it is a question of surving the global economy.

If you want to pay yourself high wages, go ahead and do so. The only problem is that the Chinese will undercut you and you will not get any orders etc. The system depends on customers and they will buy from the lowest cost source.

It is all about market forces. The skilled can command more and the less skilled cannot.

The Germans are suffering massive unemployment because of high wages and high taxation / social security costs etc.

We are all competing for work and before you get sanctimonious, just remember that DVD player you bought for £50.00 in Tescos.

The global economy is here to stay, adapt to it or die.

Your choice.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:

adapt to it or die.

Your choice.

Mick

Is that what you call a choice?

If the "global economy" is such a gun to my head I'd probably rather die. Globalisation might work in theory but it removes choice and choice is how humans measure happiness. So it'll screw more people than it serves.

Deane

Deane

So what is the answer ?

Pay more and become unemployed or pay less and survive.

There is no way out, easy to knock it but that is reality.

The answer is increased productivity. That means producing more at less cost to compete with the opposition. Sorry but it is a winner takes all situation.

You buy the best you can, we all use supermarkets and the internet and we aim for the best deal. This is the way it is.

Regards

Mick

Mick

The answer is regulated, protected markets.

The idea of globalisation is based on some very shaky ideology/economic theory IMO. It might all sound plausible but it is unproven and untested and takes no account of the people at the bottom of the economic food chain who are the very people relied upon to produce the "wealth".

Deane

Deane

Regulated protected markets just do not work.

You will stop cheap imports coming in but you will become uncompetitive because of high internal costs and will be unable to export. So you are buggered either way.

We are signed up to WTO and without doubt it has boosted the world economy.

There are safeguards, we can impose controls if an industry is under threat but in the main, we are all competing for work and we all buy the best we can.

There is simply no way out

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Oldie

We are all competing for work and before you get sanctimonious, just remember that DVD player you bought for £50.00 in Tescos.

The global economy is here to stay, adapt to it or die.

Your choice.

Regards

Mick

Ps It Was Sainsbury's not Tesco and it cost £90
NOT £50 the Electicity Men ARE hERE SO i HAVE GOT TO GO
oldie.

Slightly off-topic by now, but the part-time, schoolboy, sweeper boys get £7-8 an hour (tax free) in factories in Denmark. Odd how Denmark can afford it and still have one of the highest standard of living in the world. With a population of only 8 million.

I always think it's amusing that the rich will happily dump their kids on strangers on minimum wage (or lower if they can get away with it). They trust their kids' lives with minimum-wage workers in a great variety of potentially impacting industries and service sectors. While looking down their noses at these very workers.

"One rule" eh...?

Nime

One could wonder what Blitish cockle pickers earn in China ?



Fritz Von The Dragon is Entering innit

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Oldie

It is not a question of politics, it is a question of surving the global economy.

If you want to pay yourself high wages, go ahead and do so. The only problem is that the Chinese will undercut you and you will not get any orders etc. The system depends on customers and they will buy from the lowest cost source.

It is all about market forces. The skilled can command more and the less skilled cannot.

The Germans are suffering massive unemployment because of high wages and high taxation / social security costs etc.

We are all competing for work and before you get sanctimonious, just remember that DVD player you bought for £50.00 in Tescos.

The global economy is here to stay, adapt to it or die.

Your choice.

Regards

Mick

Mick me old loafer, I have it on good authority that Germany's greatest problem regarding its unemployment situation is its lack of cross profession flexibility, innit.


Fritz Von Pizza pie factory

Germany's biggest problem is East Germany - a bottomless pit sucking the lifeblood from the whole country.

Reunification at the earliest opportunity was a huge mistake and regret is now felt by many on both sides, as was exchanging West and East Deutschmarks on a 1:1 basis - the real value was something like 5:1 East-to-West.

West Germany competed very well indeed in the global market with its high wages but even higher efficiency/productivity.

East Germany cannot even compete against other former Soviet Bloc countries and their devalued and "softer" currencies after the fall of communism. Currency devaluation - as determined by the global market enables a nation to compete therein without too much of a drop in living standards - other than perhaps not being able to afford imported Western goods.

As they develop their currencies will increase in value and/or become stable enough to become fully convertible as happened with the Czech Crown a few years back.

Low wages/skills are no way to compete in a global market.

ST

You are half right.

Mass production relies on volume, low cost and high productivity.

The volumes and productivity are relatively fixed, you can build a factory anywhere in the world and those two criteria will more or less be the same. The main influencing factor to productivity is cost. Lower wages helps productivity.

The Japanese will build the identical factory no matter where it is located. They came to the UK because the wage rates were below the European average.

If you cannot accept low wages then you have to aim for the low volume, value add economy and that is where our future lies. The service sector.

But it means the end of the job for life, it means greater flexibility, more training / higher skills etc.

Those with the skills will attract high wages, the others are frankly buggered. That is how it is going to be whether you like it ot not.

Regards

Mick

Having lived in the middle of East Germany for some 25 years now I would tend to dissagree me old mate, and one good example of the new Power and telecommunication infrastructure in the old GDR ( once the 10th most powefull Industrial Nation in the world) NOW, far outways that of the UK for efficiency, price, and sheer quality, German's unlike many other Countries, I feel prefer to invest in quality for the long term, unlike the quick buck, leave em to stew merchants.

Fritz Von Weizen bier time methinks, Cheers

The German economy has loaded itself with high wages, high taxation and a ludicrously over generous social security programme. All that has to be loaded into the price of their goods and they just cannot compete.

Even the French are having to reconsider the 35 hour week. They are simply losing jobs whilst the UK is expanding due to its relative competitiveness.

I need you lot to work in order to pay my pension, so get grafting.

Regards

Mick

Micky, me old bean grinder, some of those are naturally long well known contributory factors here in the Federal republic. I may add though. if you care to look at Germany's very small (in comparison) risk taking 'National' stock exchange business, and it's lack of using Lottery tax & Cash for Government business (Indirect tax missuse and open accounting, as far as is possible, while being a Political land, many folk (informed & educated) wish to see real evidence of where thier taxes are spent, etc.
As a final reminder to the beloved British (Polis) use of the word economy, I remind you that in real terms it has no meaning. The UK has more National debt now than at any time in it's history, and unlike other Nations it isn't even beginning to level it's own playing field, just continuing into borrowing oblivion, which eventually will be no better than the greed merchants who buggered off with £Billions of public dosh in Maggies day´.

Fritz Von Your bills may well be paid, and you may well be solvent (generally speaking here) but it will not pay off in the long run, with present fiscal mentality, ask yer/our/my great Grannie ?

I think that it's irrelevant to discuss whether the UK, Germany or France are in a worse state. All EU countries with their uncompetitive social and economic policies and oversized Euro government on top of their oversized Euro governments are on the road to decline.

We're all doomed.

Regards
Steve M

Without getting into the Germany lay-by, I have to say that I agree with Mick regarding the balance between wages and being competitive. It is a nice ideal to pretend that we just won't buy goods if the price is too cheap because of the people at the bottom of the pile, but it is just a dream. We are all guilty.
Oldie, what about that Rickie Lee Jones CD that I found on Amazon last week for £3.49? Neither of us wondered how much RLJ is getting out of this! And I know that she's probably doing OK, but that isn't the point, is it.
I don't see Asda doing that badly, and they base their whole existence on being cheap. Even when you give people more money, they don't go out and buy better quality, which would be the justification for the argument, but just buy more cheap stuff.
In an ideal world of course....but we don't live in an ideal world, and we have to compete globally now even more than we ever have had to before. We buy CD's from the states because the exchange rate is good, and because we can with the internet. We didn't do that as much 5 years ago. The whole thing is a very fine line and the term "balancing" the books isn't just a happy coincidence.
It's a tough reality, but I think Mick is right.
Bernard Matthews is a very rich man. People want shit at cheap prices. Change the public and you may have made a start to reform.

quote:

People want shit at cheap prices

I'd say most people just want.....

Minimum Wage (In UK) methinks is more apt !



Fritz Von Not so magic Roondaboot

A lesson in global economics.

Gentlemen. Mick is right.

I have interests elsewhere other than in the UK. The economy is at a major cross roads. Why?

Two of the three major sectors of the economy are in decline. Why?

One sector has recently lost the benefit of price support for the major product Jobs are being lost in order to remain competitive.

The other sector is contracting rapidly (again mostly due to the opening up of markets based upon global trade treaties) because jobs are being lost to lower wage environments eg China.

A minimum wage is meaningless if there is no job.

Regards

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
The idea of globalisation is based on some very shaky ideology/economic theory IMO. It might all sound plausible but it is unproven and untested and takes no account of the people at the bottom of the economic food chain who are the very people relied upon to produce the "wealth".

I think billions of Indians and Chinese might disagree...

Rasher,
I thoughtthat the RLJ Cd was bought from America and you were it's second owner so RLJ has already had her cut of the cake.
But yes I suppose you are all right in what you state to a degree, but I'm afraid it's not the whole tale.There are many countrys that have a high wage high production [relativly speaking]economy So it can be done ,it's just that our lot have chosen to expect people to still produce goods in a efficent way for low pay, what was the proffits of shell, BP, Hansons etc
There is enough of the cake out there to go round ,it's just our greedy ba---rds have chosen not to share it. Historicaly all Countrys/Economys take their turn in holding the worlds wealth, just decide how far you wish to go back,Egyptians, Romans,UK ,at the moment America, then it will be India or China,and after that who knows. but it still does not justify paying slave wages.
oldie.

If Fritz is wrong about 'the economy' and its phrasing thereof, how come nobody has pulled me down constructively yet for talking rubbish ? Surely the modern Scottish Founded Freemasons formed to protect their Artisan interests, quality, and a 'Minimum Wage' across the board for its members for their services, or is this poie in the sky as well ?



Fritz Von Minimum wage has fuck all to do with economy