Minimum wage

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Ranson:
Reading some of the comments up thread one wonders whether the posters know where steel comes from

Grows on trees found somewhere within the Amazon basin?

Mick, That kind of so called wealth is all relative. My father didn't own a bike untill he was in his twentys[his father never owned one at all] his first car arrived when he was in his ,I suppose 40.s me I had a new bike at13years old and a car at 27 "My"Students at the Uni all had cars when the arrived 18/20 year olds, it's called progress we now no longer live in caves, well unless you live in a Barret built house.I don't need thirty differant types of Fridge/washing machine Hundreds of differant motor cars, again all useing the same parts and made by about 5 major Car Companys, and just for luck those 5 are so inter twined with each other[ Ford has shares in most of it's major so called opposition, and they have shares in Ford etc.etc.etc. 500 differant types of soap powder all made by the same two Companys Proctors&gamble, and Lever bros,totaly insane.A five car family, are they nuts?this isn't ameasurment of wealth it's a measurement of how stupid we really all are.The divide between the wealthy and the rest of us is greater now than under you know how. Go tell the real pensioners[ not you ]that things are better for them now. No the measurement of a countrys wealth is, less or better still no people sleeping rough,no food queuesor hand outs,no surfeits of charity shops everywhere no extended waiting list to get into hosptal. Yes there is more money available to goverments to spend now , But they don't choose to spend it alleviating poverty here, they choose to spend it creating poverty in other countrys by wreaking their infrastructure with the help of high explosives.

PAUL,
Yes agreed, but the word is relative, as for not knowing where Steel/Coal or Consumer goods of any kind, for that mattercome from I must say I wouldn't be at all supprised, there are unfortunately kids about, that think milk comes from Tesco and chickens have four legs ,because apparently thats how they are packed for Kentucky F---ED up Chicken
so yes this an indictment on the Education system, but also unfortunately so is some peoples attitude to others present company exempt of course,
RANT OVER
Because I'm temporally on the Wagon, I can't even turn to the Demon drink for solace
Good night Mick.
oldie

For a look at the American opitome of globalization and its effects on American wages and goods prices, have a look at this streaming documentary done by Frontline (in my opinion, one of our finest documentary makers). It details the "Wallmart" economy and what it means to American workers. It's central supplier focus is China.

It's called "Is Wallmart Good for America".

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

Judd

Hoist by their own petard?

Nime

)

quote:

Sunday night's episode of "The Simpsons" featured a huge store called Sprawl-Mart-- "Not a parody of Wal-Mart," a sign on the front announces.

Later in the show, another sign appears on the front: "If you worked here, you'd be poor by now."

(from Harry's Place)

Ins't there an irony about forcing people to work for peanuts and then expecting them to shop elsewhere than Walmart?

B&Q had an award from Sir M Thatcher for using older workers in a time when 50+ became a benchmark for premature retirement. With high unemployment being used as a weapon to depress wages the employers could pick and choose. Ageism hadn't yet been invented.

B&Q were using the unemployed as cheap labour on "Government training courses" at that time. B&Q would offer less than £100 *before taxes* to those they chose to employ full-time.

So next time you wonder why the B&Q staff leave something to be desired you can thank their "something-for-nothing" employers.

It was never more true (even with people) that you get what you pay for.

Nime

Nime,
Have you had a look at the rates of pay B&Q Offer, and not that I would like to be seen approving of it because I most definatly do not , but the only way you could work for thoes kind of ratesof pay, was if you either had a private income [then it would be most unlikly]or if you was in receipt of a pension, "Mick were are you" they only pay "top up money"
oldie.

5 cars!, blimey no wonder I can't find anywhere to park when I get home....

Procter and Gamble yuk, make some of the worlds most despicable hair products - head and shoulders no thanks....

Seems to me that the anglo-american capitalist system is rewarding nobody except the industrialists and shareholders of Western companies in the long run at the expense of the poor. I note HSBC just announced profits of £8bn - the man in the street won't benefit from it though, the fat cats will. Trans-national corporations will indeed gravitate to where labour and resources are cheapest unless we legislate against them relocating and leaving behind a trail of environmental and social devastation. The companies who manufacture in the third world don't pay the price for their polluting factories but future generations will.

I firmly believe that as Europeans we can protect erosion of worker rights provided we stand together. At present Britain is seeking to claw back short term competitive advantage because workers receive lower salaries, less maternity/paternity/holiday benefit and work more hours than their European counterparts. We seem to be chasing the Wal-mart model rather than that of the Swedes/Germans which is depressing.

Lets also not forget that the Germans (high wages, shorter working hours, better social provision) seem to have been rather more successful than Britain (low wages, long hours, exploited wrokers and hence poor industrial relations) at running the following industries to name but three:

German motor (Mercedes/BMW/VW)
UK motor (BL/Rover, Rolls, Aston Martin, Jaguar) - enough said I think

German aerospace (Daimler Benz, Fokker, EADS)
UK aerospace (British Aerospace)

German domestic appliance manufacture (Siemens, Krups, AEG)
UK appliance manufacture (Hoover, Dyson)

What strikes me is that British management ideology relies too much on paying people the lowest possible wages, flogging them to death and displaying pathetic reluctance to invest in quality or innovation. This short-sightedness seems embedded in the British manager's psyche and sadly I see it in evidence in this thread. Investing in making a desirable product efficiently and developing skilled people, innovating and having well motivated staff who are working for a company they are proud to work for has got to be a better way surely?? In short do we want to be Waitrose or Wal-Mart, BA or Ryan Air?

Jonathan

Isn't there some way to specifically tax firms for exporting jobs?

Or, more realistically perhaps, a legal minimum wage for British/American/European companies wherever they employ people? That would really set the cat amongst the pigeons!

How would the Chinese (fat cat) government cope with a company that absolutely insisted on paying hundreds of times the average Chinese wage to its (completely voluntary) workforce? It would make a mockery of their using armies of young children, the spare military, or political prisoners as slave labour. Once the word got out it would probably wreck the Chinese economy overnight.

It would also break the Western business managers' hearts. Which would be no bad thing!

Nime

The Japanese workers used to be paid very low wages but they're highly paid today.

Countries like India and China are building their wealth and economies by having low-paid workers. This makes their goods competitive and that makes us buy them. In time they, like Japan and Korea before them, will earn much higher wages.

Meanwhile, millions of Indians and Chinese emigrate from their traditional lifestyles of living on the land in poverty and near starvation to their poorly paid jobs in the towns and cities. They're not forced to.

It may not be a very good system but if anyone has any better ideas for reducing the vast poverty in 3rd world countries and distributing the wealth of the richer countries, millions of people would be very pleased to hear them.

Regards
Steve M

quote:

if anyone has any better ideas for reducing the vast poverty in 3rd world countries and distributing the wealth of the richer countries, millions of people would be very pleased to hear them.

The fact is that they did not get poor till we got rich.
Where's the gap?