****** Cyclists

Self-realisation can be a terrible burden...

PS: Buying one of these often helps...

I cycle to work and otherwise for the great pleasure of it. I am old enough to have always observed the rules of the road [the highway code], but I have abandoned the first quarter of a mile now. I was riding along when a school child rode straight off the pavement across my path. He did not look and pressumably was relying on his hearing, which as my Carlton is in good enough fettle to be silent was not going to help.

I broadsided him and he came straight off. Fortunately I was going slowly and stopped immediately. The only thing that stopped him carrying on cursing at me was the fact that the school crossing patrol lady witnessed it all ... The lad was not hurt beyong his pride, and my old bike was also not damaged, so no real harm done.

As you say: BLOODY CYCLISTS!

ATB from George

Self-loathing, too...

bugger!

I too, cycle to work. I am annoyed at cyclists who ride in ignorance of rules and of other users. This is not because they cause me any harm directly. I am aware enough not to be put in danger by them. But rather because I know that car drivers get annoyed by them and place me in the same category.

It is interesting to ponder why car drivers are so annoyed by cyclists breaking the rules. After all, it is very rare for a bike rider to injure a car driver, or even cause much damage to a "precious" car. I think for the most part it is simply a case of jealousy. Car drivers would like to be motivated enough to exercise, and would like to be brave enough to embark on the daily "adventure" that is the commute-by-bike. They're not, though. They sit there in traffic in airconditioned "comfort" getting older and fatter by the day. Life is passing them by minute-by-minute as they fume at yet another red light. The sight of someone they wish they could be, getting away with something they wish they could, surely drives them nuts.

Whenever the love-hate-bikes debate rages, people always chime in with stories of themselves as pedestrians being terrorised by footpath-riding renegade cyclists. I'd like to know what planet these people live on. I have always walked a LOT in cities. In Vancouver where I live, riding on the footpath downtown is a national sport. It is as bad as it gets anywhere. But I have NEVER felt in danger from a bike on the footpath, let alone been struck by one. I've rarely even been inconvenienced by one. Bikes on footpaths do annoy me (as a cyclist myself) due to the reputational thing, but they certainly don't threaten me as a pedestrian.

Cars ruin everything I hold dear.

Winky

quote:

Originally posted by lutyens:

Not very long ago cyclists would smile at each other and show some courtesy....
james

Here in Vancouver, we still do.

Dear winky,

I have been known to ride on the pavement in Worcester - at least along the New Road [by the cricket ground] - and after considerable pressure this is now designated an official cycle route! Tackling the gyratory that this short-cut avoids would be madness for a cyclist!

In a way, it is the lot of the cyclist to be hated by car drivers and pedestrians alike! We had better get used to it!

But you are right! Cycling up to a load of stationary traffic, hopping off and walking along the pavement [footpath] to finish the journey must peeve those locked into the Beemers, Skodas and Porsches etc.! I never drive for any journey less than 15 miles these days, and clocked up a mere 800 miles between the last two annual MOT tests [till October last year], and this year have only driven the car on two long journeys [there and back of course], so have managed less than 300 miles this year so far.

My Volvo 240 was 21 years old on the first of March, but will last years and years as it is!

I now have two road bikes. The old Carlton and a similar vintage Peugeot [circa roughly 1975]. The Pug is nice and the Carlton, superlative!

ATB from George

I was hoping to stay off 'the drivers are worse' discussion 'cos that a bit like the arrival at 'its Hitler's fault' in the arguement. There is no where else to go with the discussion except to take sides........and you can probably guess where I stand in this.

I just wanted to see if someone could tell me why they ignore the 'rules' which seem more a matter of respect and courtesy rather than just the law.

I regret I have felt in danger by adult/teenage cyclists riding on the pavement, (not shared cycle paths which I wholly support and want more of) and felt the same for my accompanying children. I wholly accept that roads can be unsafe for cyclists and some may choose to ride on the pavement especially younger riders but surely they should go slowly and respect the pedestrians who are also using the pavements........or maybe thats just london these days!

....damn there I go again........you're right Mike!

james

quote:

I just wanted to see if someone could tell me why they ignore the 'rules' which seem more a matter of respect and courtesy rather than just the law.

Not properly brought up? Respect has gone out of fashion, and this benefitrs neither the disrespectful or the disrepected, IMHO, of course ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by lutyens:
I just wanted to see if someone could tell me why they ignore the 'rules' which seem more a matter of respect and courtesy rather than just the law.

james

They ignore the rules because it is convenient and efficient to keep rolling, rather than stop and start. The consequences are viewed as small in the minds of the cyclists. And they mostly are. Most serious bike accidents are not caused by cyclists breaking laws, they are caused by cars turning across the paths of cyclists, not having seen them. There is no correlation with whether the cyclist is proceeding legally or illegally. The chances of being caught by Mr Plod are also small.

quote:

Originally posted by lutyens:
not shared cycle paths which I wholly support and want more of
james

The most hazardous part of my daily journey is a short section on a shared path. The actions of pedestrians, kids and dogs are completely unpredictable. I use this very short section of shared path to avoid a much longer busy road section, so the trade-off is worth it (perhaps), but kilometre-for-kilometre, I find the road is less threatening/hazardous. Car drivers here are generally very aware and courteous (unlike the overt aggression in Autralia where I grew up, but let's not go there! Literally. Too hot and dry anyway.)

Winky

In the UK, there are anough cyclists who chose to ignore the rules of the raod to make some real problems.

They often ignore red lights, do not give a toss about pedestrian crossings and fully expect that cars will react quickly enough not to run them over.

Chaps

This is an excellent opportunity for me to be much more holier than yow.

I purchased one of these for Mrs Mick a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/sonnet-bliss.html

I also enrolled both Mrs Mick and myself of a CTC course for the over fifties.

This means that each saturday morning, for 8 weeks, we will be taught by experts on how to cycle around town, going over the notorious magic round a bout in swindon etc etc. We have been instructed NEVER to mount the pavement or jump lights, we should finish this course highly proficient cyclists.

I suspect, however, we will both be still slow and wobbly.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
Winky

In the UK, there are anough cyclists who chose to ignore the rules of the road to make some real problems.

They often ignore red lights, do not give a toss about pedestrian crossings and fully expect that cars will react quickly enough not to run them over.

Unfortunately all too true ...

We are lucky enough to have many cycleways around town, but I do use the pavement( I do give pedestrians their space)as it's too bloody dangerous on the road, with all those motor vehicles.

Chaps

Using the pavement is actually safer for cyclists in certain instances. The police accept this as a fact and rarely ever prosecute unless the cyclist is riding in a reckless manner.

Many pavements are being converted into cycle tracks.

Regards

Mick

True in Worcester, and reasonable, given the width of the selected ways.

The cycle will become the norm for many in the future though not all of course.

Mick, I have a new to me [1970s] Peugeot road bike [racing model] to sit beside my Carlton. I almost feel unpatriotic, but it is nice! The Carlton is finer by the margin that marks out a 552 from a 72!

Altogether a different animal!

Best wishes from George

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
Winky

In the UK, there are anough cyclists who chose to ignore the rules of the raod to make some real problems.

They often ignore red lights, do not give a toss about pedestrian crossings and fully expect that cars will react quickly enough not to run them over.

I rode to work in Bristol for a couple of years as well as spending many hours touring surrounding countryside, North, South East and West. Absolutely the best place I've ever lived in which to bike. Yep, the behaviour of most bike riders in town is much less than perfect with respect to compliance with the law, but it never affected me other than to affect my reputation; as I was presumably classified as "another scofflaw bike rider" regardless of my actual behaviour.

Scariest place to ride? The Bristol-Bath bike path on a sunny Saturday or Sunday.

The behaviour of car drivers was generally wonderful. And again, much better then the crapshoot of riding in bloody Australia, where to have things actually thrown at you was a fairly regular occurrence.

George

I took nine months off from work last year and in the last 3 months, I started to cycle about 10 miles a day. Not a lot, I agree, but better than nothing. I actually felt healthier and lost 8lbs in weight.

Since working at home, the cycling has all but ceased and I have regained the 8lbs.

The good news is that I am finally retiring in 10 weeks and look forward to more cycling again.

Regards

Mick

Dear Mick,

It beats walking and you can always stop to enjoy the view!

A bike is a liberation!

Enjoy the journeys!

ATB from George

Hi Winky
I would agree with you. I ride in to london about 7/7.30am and presumably like you, I try to ride at the speed of the traffic (if not faster!!) and I find most drivers aware and courteous. There is always some prat who is pulling out or turning left without thinking/looking but you build up a sixth sense for this happening and are usually ready for it. Cycling home at night is much the same story although the dark does seem to cause a certain amout of mental lack of awareness. Cycling at other times of the day or in the rain can be positively dangerous however as the drivers seem much less sure or aware of their surroundings maybe either because of frustration or simply not being very good drivers!

What I don't get is

They ignore the rules because it is convenient and efficient to keep rolling, rather than stop and start. The consequences are viewed as small in the minds of the cyclists. And they mostly are.

What is the problem with stopping at traffic lights or pedestrian crossings? It is someone elses turn to cross the road and in theory in safety. So you have to stop and wait and start again but so what? Yes its a bit of a bugger in the rain but it doesn't rain on my commute that often and rain is a fact of life and generally just as bad for the pedestrian. And I don't understand that just because you/we the cyclist think it has small consequences you/we ignore the fact that it might have greater consequences for the people it affects such as the pedestrians thinking they can cross the road safely on their green man or me or another cyclist going the other way haveing to take emergency evasive action so as not to hit the stupid prat. In my experience the cyclist jumping the lights is doing it at some speed and is assuming the others ( the pedestrians or the affected cyclist) will get out of their way.

I am very wary of cycle/footpaths for all I am a great fan and yes they contain lots of unpredictable users, but I don't assume any speed on these paths. For speed I too would use the roads.

The cyclist who almost knocks me off by jumping the lights would almost certainly be really cheesed off if I did it to them so why do they do it to me, and I suppose what really gets me is that when I brake hard to a screeching halt and say something like ' for xxxxx sake its not your bloody go' I just get told to F off rather than a simply Sorry. Even just a sorry would salve most of my anger!

james

quote:

Originally posted by lutyens:
Even just a sorry would salve most of my anger!

james

Unlikely from the cyclists round here! (Or the pedestrians who cross in front of you just as your traffic light goes green.) Our big plague is teenagers who ride in groups, on and off the pavement at random. They seem to rely on the fact that the motorist will avoid them, because they rarely look to see if the road is clear before leaving the pavement. This is really scary when it happens at night, because they don't use lights, and wouldn't be seen dead in reflective clothing.

Local government also bears some blame for this - planning road systems which don't account for cyclists. Leicester is the worst I know, where the inner city roads are so bad for cyclists that they all use the pavement and terrorise pedestrians.

For years I taught cycling safety courses, based at our school. Eventually the local council's risk assessment requirements became too onerous, and the courses ceased. Evidently it was better to have no training at all than to allow the children onto public roads under the supervision of experienced, trained instructors. So presumably they now all ride on pavements because they haven't been taught how to ensure their own safety on roads.

Okay, rant over - can anybody tell me where I get the offical grumpy old sod badge?

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I have a new to me [1970s] Peugeot road bike [racing model] to sit beside my Carlton. I almost feel unpatriotic, but it is nice! The Carlton is finer by the margin that marks out a 552 from a 72!

Altogether a different animal!

Best wishes from George

I understand the principle George, but to be fair the comparison should be between a NAC 12 and a NAC 32.

Good as the Carlton may be there are finer machines out there so the comparison with the very best(aka the 552) is going a bit far

Straight out of university, I used to ride an hour across town to my job as a computer systems integrator–unlike the UK, the roads were straight, pock-marked and populated with large trucks. The only way one could survive traversal of these major roads was to ride defensively and to yield to larger vehicles (of course).

I have seen many an idiot on a bicycle, both as a rider and as an automobile driver, and I remain convinced that grievous personal injury may be the ONLY thing that might instill some sense into these idiots. Obey the rules of the road, be courteous, and everything else falls into place.

By the way–I have never used a bicycle helmet–as I remain convinced that proper defensive riding is the only means of survival. That said, on the other hand, I would not ride a motorcycle without a helmet (having flown over the 'bars once before), self- vs. motor propulsion being the primary distinction between the two modes.

I may yet start riding to the office again.