Where's Linn gone?

Andrew,

It's: helpline@linn.co.uk

Thomas

Are you going to tell them where to install it?

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I got a nice reply from Linn USA today to a question I had.

BTW, were you on the thread about the 3M "LP12/Mana interface"? Once again my girl freind in Arizona just got her new Listener mag before me and I am told Art Dudley has full coverage, including the offer from Flat Earth Audio (great helpful company, shipped me all my Mana)they have the correct feet which they are sending for free, apparently.
This sounds like a wild issue, anyone seen it yet?

Jeremy

Thanks Thomas,

I'll send it tonight, may post reply here, if suitable.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

This thread got me thinking about why I will never, ever buy anything of theirs again. I've set up my own LP12s since the late 70s - hell, back then they even sent you the 'Linn Sondek Setup Manual' if you asked (a pile of very valuable photocopied pages).

Last year, with my LP12 in need of its regular but infrequent 'spring-clean', I attempted to buy new grommets, springs, p-clip etc (what used to be called the 'Nirvana' kit) from a well-known dealer in London who had been giving me this stuff at approx 5 yearly intervals - not now! Official directive from Linn, who apparently no longer trust enthusiasts, trained or not (I used to set them up on Saturdays for a well-known London store during the booming 80s when they couldn't sell enough), to do the job themsleves. Rather, trust your deck to someone else and charge you handsomely for the experience. I spoke directly to Linn about this apparent change in policy and, while they accepted I could do the job, point blank refused to supply any more Nirvana kits.

Now I'm not for one second suggesting that everyone should set up their own deck at all, but 'customer service' that denies spares to those that want them/have the know-how irritates me just a little weenie bit and seems in complete contradistinction to Naim - I've never had any trouble getting SBL gaskets and (bathroom) sealant for example. Anyone else have similar experiences recently?

Steve

Interesting point, but I suspect you'd get the same response if you asked Naim to supply, for example, their amplifier output transistors?

Andy (whose just pressed send).

Andrew L. Weekes

Steve,

I have to agree with you. Linn's so called Customer Service flatly refused to send me an LP12 Setup Guide even after I had told them that I had a setup jig and was going ahead with it with or without them.

They even had the audacity to include a plug in their reply for their f'ing Sondek CD player!

Ivor must be asleep at the wheel...ZZzzz

Andrew,

I don't agree that Linn's withholding of springs and grommets can justifiably be compared to Naim witholding their proprietary output transistors.

The LP12 suspension bits and bobs have been readily available at the dealer level for over two decades and, unlike Naim's transistors, there is nothing technologically propriatary about them other than the fact that they fit the deck. Nor is the setting up of an LP12 much more that just a pain in the ass bit of maintenance. And, unlike Naim's transistors, Linn's bits do require regular periodic replacement.

A better analogy, IMO, would be if Naim refused to supply SBL gasket kits directly to their customers, and instead, forced them to have a dealer service the speakers at an hourly rate plus parts/markup.

Linn appears to consider their customers, whom they so earnestly educated in the ways of the source all these years, unfit to care for their own kit in the absence of decent Linn dealers, which, in any case, are pretty thin on the ground over here in the Colonies.

If Linn believe that they are actually improving their level of service to their customers by treating them like children, then maybe they should consider just who has contributed to their success these past 25 years...their dealers, or their dealers customers.

I don't think that Linn realise just how educated their customers have become in the digital age. Ironic that they were among the first of the manufacturing companies to invest heavily in digital information systems.

Linn should be commended for their efforts in setting up a worldwide network of well trained dealers. And their track record for customer service has been exemplary in the past. But forcing a customer to entrust his out of warranty record deck to a dealer who has barely even seen one for years is a travesty against the concept of customer service. It stikes me that they are protecting their dealers profits in a dying segment of the market to help sustain their lifestyle systems distribution networks growth.

'Simply Better' my ass.

Craig

P.S. Thanks go to Tony Lonorgan for his very helpful Flat Earth Pages.

P.S.S. Tony, keep watch for Scots wielding LP12 subchassis straightening tools.

Andrew W: Sorry, I must be unnecessarily obscure. In essence:

1. Naim output transisters have never, to my knowledge, been directly available; nor should they be.
2. In contrast, the Nirvana kit was available directly for years.
3. Now it’s not.
4. Naim have always supplied SBL gaskets directly, and done so happily.
5. Net result – I’m finished with Linn. I’ll continue to buy Naim kit ad infinitum (or until they adopt Linn's current attitude).

Craig, Very lucid. Your point relating to dealer proximity is important. There is no Linn dealer in my town and I live in the UK! Do I want to cart an LP12/ARO across our green and pleasant land (and take several hours out of a busy schedule to do so)? Surprisingly not.

Your other point relating to dealer familiarity with vinyl kit is also pertinent. All of these guys are supposed to be 'trained' right? To illustrate the latter, the last time I wanted SBL gaskets I wandered into a franchised Naim dealer in Central London, spoke to two staff, both of whom had no idea what an SBL gasket was (!). When I got hold of the manager, he’d ‘heard’ of them but advised me to contact Naim directly! I’d be happy to tell Naim who this was. It was a Saturday so perhaps I was talking to the local schoolboy making a few bob for his Playstation?

Steve

Maybe all you Linn fans should go to this

"Join Linn and Hi-Fi World Magazine on Saturday June 9th 2001 at the Grosvenor House Hotel, Park Lane,London, for a comparative Linn Sondek demonstration of the LP12 against the CD12.Linn staff and members of Hi-Fi Worlds editorial team will be available and at your service throughout the day. The venue is Brook Suite and Burlington Suite, First Floor, Grosvenor House Hotel, Park Lane, London from 10:00am - 4:00pm Saturday June 9th and admission is FREE!"!

I was tempted by that, but I'm not sure we'd hear anything through their electronics

A.

Andrew L. Weekes

John, yes I am going to the London demo but not to assasinate anybody - I'm just curious what £72,000 worth of kit sounds like (or indeed what a £12,000 CD player sounds like). Looking forward to it?

Steve

Steve / Craig,

Your right, the example of output transistors is not a particularly good one, but I do wonder how Naim would feel with regard to 'service' items such as the bits required for a recap (they may be perfectly willing to supply - I've never asked?).

What companies should do in this case is explain why the change in policy, many major manufacturers will not supply spares direct to the end user - the dealer expects the manufacturer to support them also.

A poorly set up Linn (and I'm not for one second saying that you, personally, cannot do the job correctly) is a poor advert for Linn's products, just as a bodged poor sounding piece of Naim kit would be. Long term the effect of this could be disasterous for sales.

It's very difficult for a manufacturer to have any confidence in an end users abilities, and by not supplying parts they are not encouraging users to play with potentially lethal kit (Valhalla springs to mind!).

Just as Naim use specially hard wired mains leads for demos, but could not recommend their use to the general public as they wouldn't pass safety standards.

This is where a good dealer could help though, a regular friendly relationship can often bypass the manufacturers decree - the dealer needs to be very confident that he won't get found out though, if his dealership is dependant on it. There needs to be a very high degree of trust between customer / dealer, nurtured over many years - difficult if you're no longer within a sensible catchment area.

Interesting though, especially as Ivor stated in his recent interview that Linn were less dictatorial with their dealers now!

It would appear though, that the skills of the experienced Linn LP12 expert are being lost - I know from personal experience with my own dealer whether the proprieter has set up my Linn, or whether it's one of his other staff (trained by him / Linn). The difference is that audible

The little direct experience I've had with Linn in the past has generally been fair, it'll be interesting to see the response to my very polite letter about the Trampolinn - no response yet.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes