A fine little DAC

Update:

As some here might know I used to have a Lavry DA 10, which struck me as very fine when I auditioned it with iTunes on a Macbook Pro.

Very full of detail and expressive in purely musical terms. At the time I would not venture a view on whether this was for example actually as good or better than my old CDS2. There were far too many other variables to consider giving a reasonable answer.

In fact the Lavry left for the reason that I wanted to get enough storage and backup to run iTunes on my existing PC running with XP.

I remain delighted with the iTunes method, which has a sterling user interface, and seems able to extract more from CDs than CD players. However I remain aware that each listening to a recorded performance must inevitably yield greater insight into the music making simply because one listens after the experience of already having listened. Thus even on exactly the same set one will often hear news aspects, not noted before, when previously listening to the same recording. Indeed knowing the music will also allow for extra details to register at each listening.

I remain dubious that this extra perceived detail can be laid at the doorstep of some upgrade or other, rather than a continual deepening of perception as one re-listens.

What is often apparent with an upgrade is a more natural sound, that is less tiring as actual sound - more transparent, more neutral and less full of character related to the replay rather than the music making, or the recording there-of. This has a value as the less the sound intrudes, the more the music becomes the easy focus of attention.

Having so enjoyed the Muse, at £59 plus transit, I took a punt on another little UBS DAC come headphone amplifier amp. Same basic concept, and layout, and still at 12 Volts DC power requirement. The Maplin lives to supply another day.

The make is aune, and I am delighted by the extra degree of ease in listening with my Sennheiser headset.

This arrangement will be tested against a CDS3 and LP12, Michel Orbe and NAT 01 this weekend as I shall take it to Frank F's in Spain, and plug it [via a Hi-line, RCA to DIN] into a 552, new style SNAXO, two by 300s driving splendid SL2s.

Frank still has a Lavry DA 10, so I crave your patience in posting shortly some observations on the various possible comparisons possible. Of course it will all be opinion, but it will be fascinating for me to find out how different [and in what way] or how similar these various music source components will prove!

ATB from George

Hi GFFJ.

Re the Aune, then you may want to try it at 18 volts DC instead.

Although ... I see that you use a linear [?] PSU at 12 volts for it. So this may not be applicable in your case.

I have no personal experience with it yet (it's on its way from China), but several users at rock-grotto (sic!) - a head-amp site - uses the Aune at 18 volts DC, and they have even upgraded the little baby with better opamps. This opamp "rolling" I intend to do too when "my" Aune reaches Denmark.

Best wishes,
Peter

I wonder about using a non-standard over-voltage though!

But I have found [as mentioned above] real benefits from using a properly regulated Voltage Power Supply albeit at 12 Volts DC. More like Supercharging at a low pressure than the sense of Turbo-charging with an unregulated higher than standard Voltage. My sense is that you might shorten the life of it if you raise the input voltage!

But the aune is remarkable in standard fit, and helped no doubt by a quite solid Maplins PS. I cannot raise the Voltage beyond 12 on this unit.

ATB from George

Hi GFFJ.

The thread in the forum I mentioned is a long but very interesting read. I started to post on page 12 or so.

Best wishes,
Peter

Edited by Rosewind

Dear Rosewind,

Details notes and thanks for the edit! My threads move slowly and for a long time! Sometimes they are lovely for me to review years later! For what others have said!! Thanks again!

Best wishes from George

I have loaded my iTunes music onto a brand new laptop [with Seven as operating system], and in a few hours will leave for Southern Spain to visit Frank F.

I did a test run earlier on the aune via USB from the laptop, and the result is as nice as hoped for.

Feeding this into Frank's great active SL2 set will be a phenomenal test of whether the little budget DAC can hold its own! Darius in the Lions den, perhaps!

If this works well enough, I think Frank plans something along these lines for Warsaw! If he takes the idea up, it will be an endorsement indeed.

As ever the evening before traveling, I am a bag of nerves. Did not sleep till 3 am last night either.

I am shortly getting some splendid Bach harpsichord music performed by Helmut Walcha in transfers from the old [out of copyright] LPs. I give up on EMI-Toshiba, which simply does not make these things available in the world outside Japan, though it is a current CD issue there! EMI Classics [UK branch] want their collective a***s kicking for holding these things in the vault, unavailable! Unavailable and unbelievable as well. I would love to be in a position to sort out the issuing policy, which is cautious, unimaginative, and so predictable. Why can the Japanese branch get this right, but no European branch? The Japanese issues are from London made restoratios and very fine they are. I have one Japanese CD from the series that escaped, by luck, being sold second hand at a crazy price on Amazon! I could help EMI make real use of their back catalogue, given the chance. Then they would not be struggling to hang onto Abbey Road.

Anyway, goodnight, and catch you in Spain over the weekend! ATB from George

Back home! Replacement aune already arrived. Certainly it was not embarrased by Frank's superb set. Splendid results in fact.

Will aim to build up a 72/Hicap/140 set again to drive SBLs as I now have a source up to the task.

Best wishes from George

Welcome back George... and welcome back.

I am hoping to get the 72/Hi/140/SBL set fixed up for the Autumn.

Here are two pictures of the aune USB DAC though I shall have a rather fine system photo to show as well before too long:





The new one has run in very quickly. Overnight in fact from first powering up.

Best wishes from George

George - does the volume affect the line out or just the Headphone?

Thanks

Headphone level is variable, and the line out is fixed. Both can work well at the same time.

When I post the system picture [not mine] you will see it in potentially embarrassing company! 552/ new style SNAXO [with S/cap]/ twin 300s onto SL2s. It survived the challenge very nicely. As I say, I have found something to convince that I can use speakers again!

ATB from George

Nice pictures!

"My" little Dac is still en route from China. I'm definitely going to switch psu to a regulated 18 volt one and I'm going to try two sets of different Opamps in it to see if that yields any improvements both in the headamp and the dac sections of the unit.

The posted impressions of the sound quality of the Aune are certainly most encouraging!

Best wishes,
Peter

Dear Peter,

Do post when you have the aune running. In my listening using the USB solves a host of sonic nasties associated with normal sound cards inside computers.

This is a budget solution, but not less than phenomenal VFM, and most satisfying, IMHO.

ATB from George

No.


ATB from George

As promised quite some time ago, here is a shot of my iTunes library feeding my [Frank F's now] little aune USB DAC onto his set consisting of 552, new SNAXO [with Supercap], two by 300s, driving SL2s.

In the circumstances this should have been embarrasing considering the other sources such as NAT01 [with Galaxy], CDS3, and four great turntables to choose from! [see Hifi Corner for the pictures]!

It was not remotely difficult to enjoy the music from plain ALAC files on un-enhanced iTunes via the little DAC through the big set. If any set would reveal any quality issue this would!

From this I assume that the arrangement will be superb with 72/Hi/140 driving SBLs for me later this year.

The experiment has convinced to to get loudspeaker replay again!



ATB from George

Dear Stu,

The top picture is the first USB DAC, from "Muse" and was a "punt" at £59. To simply see if this brought a nice improvement over the internal soundcard on my desktop PC. It did make things better, by a striking margin.

So I reasoned that the Mark Two version at roughly £100 might bring even more to the party. In fact it was a bigger leap from the Mark One version [Muse] to the Mark Two, which is made by "aune" and so though the first DAC is still about, for £100 I got an upgrade that makes for replay not embarrassed by Frank's big set. Very pleased with it all.

But the Mark Two [aune] deletes the optical input, and adds a proper power switch, which in my view is just as useful as I don't like the optical arrangement [I use the USB as I find this the best, and it removes the PC soundcard from the signal line] and the power switch is a useful addition as well.

ATB from George

I will add that the "aune" is also a highly competent headphone amp. Not to be sniffed at if you listen at night.

If Naim made such a machine at say £600 [in a shoe-box sized case] they would have an entry level machine of the quality of the various Naits that make music without fuss, and demanded further examination of the possible quality further up the line ...

ATB from George

Earlier I was talking to Frank [F] on skype, and he has been sufficiently fascinated by the "aune" that he has been making many experiments [by the sound of it!] through his big Naim set.

He told me that with the "aune" the original supplied PS is actually better than the regulated Maplin, which more or less agrees with what I found. I found so little difference that upgrading to the Maplin [regulated] PS was not worth it with but with the cheaper Muse, the addition of the Maplin is a worthy improvement, because the supplied Muse PS was simply not so very nice.

He has loaded several of his CDs into "iTunes" and found that the arrangement via the USB "aune" is very fine indeed though not as fine as his CDS3. I would have been shocked if it had matched the great old CD player! The "aune" is £100 and the CD player, so any times that price.

What Frank is after is portability of his music between Spain and Warsaw [with his venerable Chrome Edged set driving Linn "sara" speakers, SBLs, or soon to be installed SL2s in Poland]. In that case he surmised that the "iTunes," laptop, USB connected "aune" will be highly enjoyable as a way of having his music - all of it - available in his two bases.

I suspected that this would be the case, which is why my enthusiasm led to me taking these things to him earlier in the year.

For myself, unfortunately the posh arrangement of an expensive DAC, either in the Lavry price range, or the even more posh range from Naim, is off the cards. But I am enjoying the best replay since my days of running a CDS2. Few CD players below the CDS range quite cut the mustard in my experience ...

I shall tell Frank that I posted this, and perhaps he will add to my observations before long.

ATB from George

PS: The Muse is feeding a Nait1 or 2 [not sure which], driving Linn "kans" in his study where it fits right in! With the Maplin PS.

Hi George,

I have enjoyed keeping an eye on this thread. May I ask, how does the "aune" compare to the lavry?

Regards

RW

The Lavry pleased me very much. I ran it off the SPIDF out [co-axial with RCA cynch plugs on the interconnect] from a very nice Marantz CD player/recorder. The SPIDF out from this was the best I found on any CD player that I could lay my hands, so equipped. Of course this was before Naim made this option available on some of its players. The optical link [with the Marantz] was less fine through the Lavry.

I used it both as a headphone amp and as a DAC feeding my 72/Hi/140 set.

When I went computer audio with an XP mounted PC, I first found that iTunes is better than a CD drive as a source of high quality music files. Using the aune via USB from the PC seemed to me to offer a level of refinement that was a significant advance on the Marantz co-axial fed Lavry. I never fed the Lavry directly from my own computer, because it lacks a SPIDF-out capabilty. It is quite old. I bought the aune because it has the USB connectivity that allowed me to use my existing computer. The aune also has a single analogue line in [as well as obviously line out at fixed level, and also a fine variable output for heaphones] and can take co-axial SPIDF, but not optical.

I dare say that the USB connection may be the real lesson learned from this, and others have had significant success using the Hiface USB adapter on the PC output feeding co-axial SPIDF from the Hiface to much more expensive DACs than the aune, [or are they using optical, I am not sure].

Using USB to feed the digital information to a Hiface, or for me the aune, removes [as I understand it] the soundcard in the PC from the line.

This is the only reason I can think of [though I am no expert] for why the aune should be performing so wonderfully at its miniscule price point.


Recent reports that the Naim DAC is similar in quality to the CDS3 seems reasonable enough to me. And the aune is not as fine as the CDS3. Of course not, but as the test, mentioned above, using Frank's wonderful active Naim set showed the arrangement is entirely enjoyable, unfussy, and very engaging musically.

I have found it a very lucid listen, and one that never grows tiring over a very long session.

It is a nice little piece of kit. Probably it might be interesting to consider the relative cost of the Hiface and the aune, as both allow for a very fine extraction of the digital information in a PC or MAC.

Frank has finally hitched it up to a MAC [again using standard iTunes], and I suspect he may have something to say here about this as well. I cannot second-guess what he will [possibly] say, but he did seem rather enthusiastic in a short email earlier.

Seems like I may have to get a MAC Mini!

ATB from George

Thank you for such an interesting read. How does the aune compare to the CDS2/3 you have experience with?

IIRC, you preferred the lavry to the CDS3?

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Right Wing:
Thank you for such an interesting read. How does the aune compare to the CDS2/3 you have experience with?

IIRC, you preferred the lavry to the CDS3?

Regards

Dear RW,

I did run a CDS2 for six years - bought in 2000. I would never have changed it but for life's vicissitudes! After that getting what seemed fine replay from CDs was always going to be difficult enough.

The Marantz on its own was a nice toned played, and with the Lavry became fine enough for me in the long run. Trouble was that the Marantz was an antique and the transport was gradually failing.

I had to make a decision about getting a CD player of [at the time] at least a CD 5x standard for it to be not always obviously wildly inferior to the old CDS2. Obviously I could not afford the CD5x, and as I had been given great reports of what could be managed with a PC [by Earwicker, of this Parish], I decided to experiment with iTunes. Of course the computer is old, but actually quite good, and the sound card alone with iTunes was more or less matching the Marantz in enjoyment.

Then I bought the Muse, which is described at the top of this thread as a punt for £59, and was delighted. This was a real move in the right direction, so doing a little reading on the forum [cannot remember the name] concerning headphones, I found the name "aune" cropping up with many complimentary remarks. Remarks, I found I was happy to agree with, for the handsome fee of £100.

Of course there are aspects of the CDS2, which were better, even now with long hindsight. The old top Naim player was acute musically, sweet of tone or sharp as a pin depending on what the music requires. It even managed a more than passable sense of air between the instruments, and pinpoint stereo and depth of image that some regard as important.

The Lavry was generally brighter toned than the CDS2, but not aggressively so. It also did the Hifi stuff, and altogether gave no cause for dissatisfaction for me.

The "aune" is gentler toned, but not soft edged, and can pack an immense impact, as the old CDS2 could. It really does not seem to concentrate on the "Hifi and stereo" aspects as much as any of the previous CD playing schemes, but it is completely lucid at preserving musical balance and instrumental timbres [as they vary with expression] and altogether the listening with it is entirely satisfying.

As Frank has noted, it is not going to outgun the CDS style of player! But it is enjoyable and musically satisfying for me, and apparently now, for Frank. I suggested he listen to one and decide if it might be a useful and inexpensive method of using computer audio ...

For the record, many people did compare the Lavry and some even ventured the opinion that they preferred it in some ways to some Naim CD players ...

I was reluctant to make the comparison here. This is the longest post I have written about it in a sense that there is a hint of comparison. I would call the Lavry great value, and musically pleasing. The "aune" is simply phenomenal value, and every bit as musically probing and communicative as the Lavry. I prefer the oft-gentler projection of the music with the "aune" to the "up-front" Lavry, but fear not! Apolityca's recordings will still saw the ears off with the "aune!" It does not make the sharp and bright into something soft and comfortable, but for a three-hour music session with Bach [and others] it is illuminating, enjoyable, and not the least bit sonically tiring. Indeed, for me, the "aune" [using its USB connection with simple iTunes on a completely standard PC] represents an ideal voicing for enjoyable music. No doubt if I had the money I would investigate a CDS3, but by now life has left me with enough experience to realise that I don't need the extra finesse that it would bring.

I hope you can see my point, and don't think I am being mealy mouthed.

Best wishes from George

FF,
FYI, just because you are using USB does not entail you are bypassing the OS in either Mac or PC. Whether you care or not is another issue.

You have no choice with Mac. The OS (and also maybe the audio player) is processing audio regardless of output method. Maybe it is bit perfect, maybe not, it is irrelevant as you cant do anything about it anyway.

On a PC you have options to completely bypass the system Core Audio control and output bit-perfect, untainted audio. You achieve this with ASIO, KS, WASAPI etc... Usable with many different players.

I only mention as it seems your goal is to bypass the OS.

-patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
FF,
FYI, just because you are using USB does not entail you are bypassing the OS in either Mac or PC. Whether you care or not is another issue.

You have no choice with Mac. [...].

On a PC you have options to completely bypass the system Core Audio control and output bit-perfect, untainted audio. You achieve this with ASIO, KS, WASAPI etc... Usable with many different players.

I only mention as it seems your goal is to bypass the OS.

-patrick

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
What I can say is that the Mac allows the manual choice of soundcard or DAC and there is IMO certainty that the souncard is out of circuit when the DAC is used - the sound with the Mac is better. [...].

Dear Patrick,

I read your post and then that by Frank from shortly earlier. It is surely impossible to bypass the Operating System on any computer, be it MAC or PC. Even the HSX has an operating system.

What Frank is saying, I believe, is that with the MAC you have the option to definitively by-pass the internal sound card.

As regards bit perfect, my approach has been to listen to the result. Either the replay is satisfactory or not. I am in no position to state whether the acceptable coincides with a technical basis called bit-perfect. From my posts above it may be clear that I have found a satisfactory and enjoyable arrangement, that for me is currently working with a normal PC. I have no idea if it is bit-perfect, but it makes enjoyable music replay!

It is far too cheap to be taken all that seriously here, but it would in my view be quite an advance if Naim's DAC would allow itself to connect direct [rather than by something like the Hiface] to a MAC or a PC via USB ...

ATB from George

PS: I still could not afford it though!

George,

Firstly, hi there!!!!

Secondly, you can easily bypass the OS on a Windows PC using ASIO, KS, WASAPI etc....

Regarding bypassing the internal sound card. If you don't care for bit perfection (which is fine), why would he care about bypassing the sound card?

Lastly, yes I totally understand your method and agree it is perfect for you. Let your ears does the walking. I think Naim did just that when looking into using the Naim DAC as an external sound card (like your Aune). It must not have sounded very good, because it is not hard to implement especially considering they are using USB inputs in the first place.

My guess is that is have everything to do with cannibalizing future streamer sales. Why stream if you can connect directly with a USB.

Just a guess though. Benchmark and Wavelength and many others have seemed to incorporate USB without degrading the sound over the other inputs. I dont know why Naim couldn't do it.

Anyway..... I just accepted it and bought a nice sound card with spdif output. I will probably try a hiface at some point. And I also have a m-audio transit (USB to spdif).

It is probably a blessing in disguise that the USB on the DAC is not used in this way. As formats and OS's change, the Naim DAC would not be able to keep up. Would it be ASIO complient? WASAPI? Neither? etc....

The way it is now, you will change in and out the less expensive component e.g. the sound card or USB converter, leaving the DAC to simply do what it does.

If I had my druthers I would probably forgo the USB inputs all together on the Naim DAC. I dont have USB sticks laying around and my PC is within reasonable range of the kit. I will either use a Hiface, my transit or soundcard with spdif output. Any of those options are fine with me and allow a reasonable run of cable to the DAC.

take care,
patrick