Blair conversion?

Bush/Blair as Christains can be compared to the Taliban as Muslims. Certainly the Christian Right in the US have similarities to the Taliban in their modus operandi wrt those who disagree with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
Maybe, but now the evangelists have taken control of the soldiers. A fanatic of any persuasion is a threat to us all.

I suppose you've also been duped into believing that George W. Bush is really a Christian...

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Svetty:
Bush/Blair as Christains can be compared to the Taliban as Muslims. Certainly the Christian Right in the US have similarities to the Taliban in their modus operandi wrt those who disagree with them.

.....I abhor the Christian right as much as the next liberal but ....I'm sorry but for all their manifest faults the Taliban they ain't ..it's all too easy to lump extreme type religions into the same bag ..the Taliban are a whole different (and madder) kettle of fish than the christian right have ever been.

e.g. whilst The christian right may well be rather patronising and plain sexist towards women the Taliban are plain deranged and cruel in their treatment of the fairer sex..and let's not even start on their approach to education.

Disliking Bush and his cronies is one thing ....comparing them to the Taliban simply doesn't stand up.

agreed. can't lose sight of the fact these fellows are throwbacks to about 1150 ....

quote:

I suppose you've also been duped into believing that George W. Bush is really a Christian...

I don't think I've been duped at all. Not entirely sure what you are implying here but I'm pretty sure I don't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:

quote:

I suppose you've also been duped into believing that George W. Bush is really a Christian...

I don't think I've been duped at all. Not entirely sure what you are implying here but I'm pretty sure I don't like it.

Well take a look at http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/04/con05134.html

"Bush’s United Methodist beliefs should also be called into question. Two issues are glaring. First, Bush’s preemptive doctrine of war is in clear violation of the United Methodist Church’s position on war and peace. United Methodists have long held anti-war positions, while at the same time allowing for just war language (namely criteria of last resort, appropriate international organizations, and to oppose aggression and/or genocide). Clearly, this current preemptive war violates the United Methodist Church’s positions on war."

Also there is mention of his association with a particularly non-Christian organisation called the "Skull and Crossbones". What worries me is whether they have a agenda of personal gain while dragging the Christian faith through the mud.

Also consider the following verses:

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.

Matthew 6:5
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

and finally in reference to the handling of war and innocents on death row in Texas (and other states):

Exodus 20:13
"You shall not murder.

Of course at the end of the day, the ultimate truth of whether or not he is a true Christian is between him and God. However I doubt that anyone who is a Christian and been motivated to study the Bible would have made the same types of decisions he has made.

So, I suppose you, me and millions of others may have been duped at one time or another. Maybe even by GWB.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
[QUOTE]

So, I suppose you, me and millions of others may have been duped at one time or another. Maybe even by GWB.

Maybe even by the church and that ridiculous book

quote:

Originally posted by fidelio:
i'll steer away from this thread. my granpappy told me there's three things you don't talk about on forums, one of them being religion.

rgds., fid.

I have always understood the other two topics, never to be brought up in polite society, to be, politics, & premature ejaculation.

Sorry but GWB has never duped me for an instant. The man is an evil charlatan. The people who were duped were the ones who voted him into office. Nor have I bought into the Christian myth machine since I was old enough to reason anything out for myself.

I may however have been duped into believing that I could hear the music quality in a hugely expensive Naim system, or the image quality derived from Leica glass. I am a true child of the second half of the 20th century in that respect.

quote:

but now the evangelists have taken control of the soldiers

Then please explain the above.

Andrew

He's a self-proclaimed evangelical. What exactly is your problem? Bah humbug. You're not worth the effort.

Thankfully there are people who think that everyone is worth the effort.

The difference with GWB is between being self-proclaimed and actually believing/carrying out that belief in accordance with Jesus' example and guidance.

One other thing. To promote the idea Evangelists (in the true sense of the word) as being a "fanatic" and "a threat to us all", and then use GWB as a (poor) example is:
a) badly informed
b) quite offensive

That's the problem, not "my problem" but your misunderstanding. I hope I've explained this clearly enough.

Andrew

quote:

Thankfully there are people who think that everyone is worth the effort.

I do, but very happy to make an exception in your case.

I don't think any religion itself presents a problem, only the people who claim to belong to one and misrepresent it.

Tony Blair could hardly change to RC during his term in office exactly for the same reason that Salman Rushtie shouldn't have been knighted. It isn't because it would be wrong, but that it could be seized upon by those who would wish to get milage out of it. I think it's just a matter of not giving an opportunity when it isn't necessary, even when it isn't clear that there might be problem. Why not wait? Just a little longer was no real hardship.

Hi Rasher,

I see what you mean. Although in Christianity it doesn't work like that. As I mentioned before, Jesus said:

"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."

Better late than never, although lateness can mean never...

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:

quote:

Thankfully there are people who think that everyone is worth the effort.

I do, but very happy to make an exception in your case.

Don't worry, I'll forgive you

Andrew

Touche!

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
Although in Christianity it doesn't work like that.

I think it can. I don't think it's about doing the right thing, but doing the right thing for the right reasons. I think Christianity is about life in practice more than words in a book, and sometimes a different action taken for the right reasons can be the more Christian thing to do, especially if it easily avoids a difficult situation for others.

quote:

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words,

I think you might be overcooking it a bit here, no-one suggested anything like that Andrew. Hhmm?

Hi Rasher,

You're definitely correct, that it's about doing the right thing for the right reasons (must resist Bible quote... ).

However, a deep love of Jesus tends to be something that changes priorities and makes the person stand up and say "yep, I'm in" (although that often happens after some time and research).

The recent Salman Rushdie situation was really blatently controversial we all could have seen that a mile off - but if Tony Blair were to identify himself closely with the Roman Catholic Church while still in office... I don't reckon that would have been too controversial (the Queen might not have been amused though ).

Even if it was controversial, the choice is between him and God. Besides which, a leader that follows God is a leader that is blessed by Him too.

Now I've got to apologise. I can't resist anymore, here's another verse that highlights what Jesus said on this matter:

Luke 9
59He said to another man, "Follow me."
But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."
60Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
61 Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family."
62Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

Of course the last bit is talking about during the time the person looks back. If they look forwards again then God will welcome them (including Tony) with open arms.

So - if someone wants to make a commitment then they should not delay, because for whatever reason tomorrow often never comes. If the delay is because they still need to think some things through (e.g. about whether Christianity is really right for them), then fair enough.

Andrew

Perhaps the most worrying thing about all of this is that Tony will stop using birth control....