To get started in Classical music

pe-zulu,

Thank you for the advice. I think I will settle for the Karajan, but I may buy the "others" on Tam's list and then wait on the Brahms. I quite like the idea of a smaller, more intimate rendering of a work. I recently saw the Prague Symphony do Dvorak's 9th, and the orchestra wasn't as grandiose - not sure about the technical term for a smaller playing group?

Aric

Tam,

Out of curiosity, and I am afraid this will really show my ignorance on the matter, why did you select the composers and their relevant pieces? I obviously understand the Beethoven pick and his catalogue of symphonies, but why and how were you able to limit the choices to the few that you did? Do these closely match the recordings that I currently have in style and in tone?

Just curious if there is a particular school of thought on the matter, as you could have just as easily advised a Mahler symphony as opposed to a Scubert.

Finally, I find myself quite lost when trying to make sense out the descriptions on the back of classical albums, or describe the musical terminologies, instruments, movements, etc. to any degree. I am afraid at the moment all I can really do is enjoy the music. It would be nice to hold an intelligent conversation with someone, and gain a greater appreciation for the music I'm sure, about what it is I am hearing.

Would you happen to have any recommendations concerning informative books etc. on the matter?

Thank you for your help.

Regards,

Aric

Mainly I did it by noticing you had a few symphonies and pointing out what I think are the keys. I think a beethoven cycle has to be a no brainer. The others are, I think are the great romantic symphonists (although mozart is a little earlier, 40 and 41 are his last).

Why didn't I recommend Mahler, well, Mahler can be something of an acquired taste (and not necessarily the best starting point, ditto Bruckner). His symphonies range from the long, to the very long, and aren't always quite so easy to love as Beethoven's. Of course, there are easier (and consequently more popular) Mahler symphonies, 4 is fairly short and a thing of beauty (and the Cleveland Orchestra with Szell is both cheap and wonderful). Number 1 in his most conventional symphony (Mackerras with the RLPO, Solti or Abbado and Bernstein with the RCO are probably key), 5 is great too (Rattle on EMI is good). But, as I say, they aren't the easiest works, and not the best starting point.

I picked the schubert set because those are his key symphonies and an excellent recording to boot.

I'm sure others would have gone about it differently. I didn't pick out any more ballet or anything like camina burana (mainly because I have very little of the former, and there's very little like the latter - though you might like to try Verdi's requiem).


regards,

Tam

Aric,

I've been away from computer contact for a week, and just came back to this thread. I'll put together my favorite 10 picks, but in the meantime, if you would like to give me a call, you can get me at home weeknights after about 7PM PDT at 661.664.1426; that's on an answering machine but if I'm home I'll pick up when I know it isn't a telemarketing call. I'd love to help get you introduced to classical music, but you'll more likely get my own take rather than anything definitive like you'd get from something like the Penguin Guide mentioned above. I grew up playing the violin and most of what I know well I was introduced to by playing/studying it.

Norman

Tam,

Bachs suites for solocello are among his most original works, and consequently I have investigated them to some extent.

The rhytms in Bachs music is strongly influenced by dancing. This is especially true of his suites (e.g. for violin, cello, harpsichord, or chamberensemble). Most of the movements in the suites for cello are stylized dances, and accordingly the dancing character of the music should be evident in the performance, whereas I don´t think that the question of period instruments is critical in these works.

Consequently I prefer interpretations with dancing character.

My preferred version is the recording by the danish(!) cellist Morten Zeuthen for the label Classico. I can´t find this in the usual sites (Amazon,JPC etc). But I think it is available here in Denmark, and I can try to investigate this if necessary (price 2 CD, ca 10 Euro pr CD). His tone is slim, agile, clean, and the interpretation very dancing and ingratiating, and still with a strong sense of the dark almost lamenting mood of the sarabandes of suite 2 and 5 without being overtly romantic in expression. He does not use period-cello, but his tone is so crisp that it almost imitates a baroque cello. Recording tecnique superb, clear, warm without too much reverberance.

Nr. two is a recording on baroque.cello by the swedish cellist Torleif Thedeen for the swedish label BIS. Excellent recorded sound as usual with BIS. Interpretation agile, dancing, joyful, informed, what can you ask for more? Price 2 BIS CD ca.40 Euro in all.

Nr. 3 is the recording for French Harmonia Mundi on baroque cello by Jaap ter Linden, a well known baroque specialist who has played with musicians like Pinnock, Koopman, Goebel etc. Playful and dancing, and perhaps more baroque athmospere than the two others, but perhaps not quite as virtuos, if still completely acceptable in that respect.2 CD midprice, don´t know exact price.

And we have got the old "grandseigneurs", the most notable Pierre Fournier whose interpretation is noble, almost apollonian, but less dancing.DG 2 CD midprice).

Another much similar is Maurice Gendron (Philips DoubleCD midprice).

Some swear to Janos Starker, he recorded the suites two-and a half times.
I haven´t heard him (yet).

Yo Ma Ma has recorded the suites twice. I have only heard a bit of the second recording
(accompagnied by a film of a dancer). Despite this I think his rendition is rather dry and ascetic, but competent.

I don´t like Rostropowitsch and I don´t like Casals. Too much fuss about expression,
read : Too romantic. Bach is not like that.

Micha Maisky is told to be even more romantic, almost overtly idiosyncratic. I haven´t sensed the urge to listen to him.(DG full price).

I have just ordered Maria Kliegel´s new recording for Naxos, haven´t got it yet. She has made herself a great name with differen´t cello concertos (Elgar among others) and I am very curious as to her interpretation. (Naxox 2CD bargain price).

In the catalogue I have numbered ca. 40 complete actually available recordings, quite a lot, and tryely impossible to know them all.

And there are recordings of arrangements for viola (bratche), viola da gamba, recorder, traverse flute, lute, theorbe, guitar, contrabas, harpsichord, -the possibilities seems abundant.

Regards,

Tam

You mentioned that there is very little like Carmina Burana, which I suppose in a way is why it struck a chord. It sure didn't sound like anything I had ever heard. Although the opening to Burana has certainly been utilized in any number of commericals and movies.

I do like the rationale of your picks. I plan to get the Beethoven cycle, the Mozart 40 & 41, Brahms Karajan, and Scubert's 3 symphs.

It would be interesting to see other's top 10 list - so to say - as well.

Norman

I love the violin. It seems there are several variations that are used in an orchestra movement, which is part of the problem, as I couldn't tell you what is what.

Unfortunately I never learned to play an instrument - not that I couldn't - and my music education stopped after 8th grade.

I was always putoff by the theory of music because the classes always required that I sing...a voice which no one should ever be subjected to, let me tell you! Consequently I grew to detest everything associated with music.

It has only been in the last few years that I wish I could have done things a little differently.

Blasted Maryland public school system.

Aric,

All right then, I'll make up both a top ten classical list and a top ten violin list. Don't hold your breath, though: I often mean well but fail in prompt execution of some tasks.

Norman

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmoliu:
Aric,

All right then, I'll make up both a top ten classical list and a top ten violin list. Don't hold your breath, though: I often mean well but fail in prompt execution of some tasks.

Norman

Aric,

I just thought of a possible remedy for your lack of a local classical radio station. You could try streaming public radio stations off the web. I can personally vouch for the local Fresno/Bakersfield station which you can access at KVPR.org The daytime DJ, Christina Herrick is of Scandanavian origin and always picks great stuff. I listen to the over the air programming all day at the office. There are others available, and the station in St. Paul, MN comes to mind. I'll get that URL from my Dad.

OK, I just went over to the CD rack and picked out my most played violin CDs. Here we go, not necessarily in ascending or descending order:

Get Anne-Sophie Mutter's 4-CD set on DG 415 565-2. She collaborates with H. Von Karajan, her mentor, on the Mendelssohn, Bruch, Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart #3 and #5 Concertos. IMHO, this is the most cost effective introduction to the violin repertoire that you could possibly ask for. This is a much younger A-S M than you would see in concert today, but all performances are first rate.

Speaking of contemporary Anne-Sophie, I really like her recent release of Vivaldi's Four Seasons with The Trondheim Soloists DG 289 463 259-2. The cover photo of her probably sells as many copies as her playing does but if you got "it" you might as well flaunt it. However, as covered in the Four Seasons thread in this forum a couple of weeks ago, my favorite is the Sonatori De La Gioiosa Marca with Giuliano Carmignola on First Impression Music FIMSACD 052 available at FIM's web site Music Direct also sells it, but I would rather see the money go directly to this small company. The bonus is that the sonics of the recording are out of this world. It is a hybrid SACD, but you can ignore the SACD layer if you want.

You must own Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for unaccompanied violin. The usual go to guy is Jascha Heifetz on RCA 7708-2-RG. However, I like Viktoria Mullova's interpretation of Heifetz's signature piece, the Chaconne from Partita #2 better than his (oh, the Heresy!). The last time I looked, her CD of the three partitas on Philips 434 075-2 was out of print. If that is still true and you can't get it, I feel so strongly about having her performance that I would gladly copy it to CDR and send it to you. If it still is out of print,I would not feel guilty about copying it.

Speaking of Viktoria Mullova, I really like her Bach Violin Concertos collection on Philips 446 675-2. While you are at it, you may like her CD of interpretations of George Harrison, Miles Davis, Alanis Morisette, The BeeGees (!) and others. It is a quirky CD but it gets a fair amount of play in my system. Philips 464 184-2.

Itzhak Perlman obviously holds the title of three hundred pound gorilla among contemporary violinists, and I particularly like his Beethoven. EMI CDC 7 47002 2.

Last but definitely not least, I have really been on a Hilary Hahn kick lately. Her tone and musical interpretations are way beyond her years (she started recording just a couple of years ago in her late teens). I particularly like her CD of the Brahms and Stravinsky concertos on Sony SK 89649. I also like her Elgar on DG B0003026-02 and the Barber and Meyer concertos on Sony SK 89029.

This is by no means an exhaustive review of the violin landscape, but as I said above, these are the CDs I reach for most often.

Norman

PS: Though this belongs in another posting; you said earlier in this thread that you are into Carmina Burana. If so, you must own the St. Louis Symphony/Slatkin version on RCA 09026-61673-2. Soprano Sylvia McNair's solos will make the hair on the back of your neck stand on end. Play it loud. (I know you will )

3 long time favourites in no particular order:

Sibelius: Symphony nr.6, Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Jukka-Pekka Saraste, Rca. Very introvert and "quiet" but extremely beautiful music.

Carl Nielsen: Symphony nr. 4&5, San Fransisco Symphony Orchestra, Herbert Blomstedt, Decca/London. Big, powerful, refreshing and beautiful. Impressive soundquality too.

Händel: Organ concerts op.4, Northern Sinfonia on Naxos. This has to be some of the most beautiful music ever composed. Personally I much prefer Händel to Bach.

quote:

Personally I much prefer Händel to Bach.

Certainly this is a matter of taste, and a matter of what you look for in the music.
If you look for counterpoint, Bach is far superior, if you look for melody, the may equal
each other.

Gustav Leonhardt was once asked, why he doesn´t play Händel.
He answered with another question:
"Why should I play the second best, when I have the possibility to play the best."

Regards,

I must say that I find handel can be a little samey. Having said that, though, I do like the coronation anthems, in particular Zadock the Priest.



regards,


Tam

pe-zulu,

Thanks for all those cello suites recommendations, I'll have to check some of them out.

I really love them (particularly the Rostropovich - indeed when I first played them after my recent upgrades, it seemed as though it was only now that the instrument was properly in tune).

The Ma, while good, is nothing amazing (I have the later recording, that goes with those videos you mentioned).



regards,

Tam

Tam,

If you are a fan of the cello, you should check out Jacqueline du Pre's 6 CD retrospective, available at least at Amazon.com here Another cost effective introduction, this time to this most passionate of musicians tragically struck down in the prime of her life. I have had this collection for a couple of years and really treasure it. I saw the 1998 movie "Hilary and Jackie" for the first time a couple of weeks ago: worth seeing, whether or not it is 100% historically accurate.

Norman

Norman,

Thanks for pointing this out to me (not that I need to spend any more on cds at the moment - I already have a backlog from my last spending spree ). I've been wanting to get du Pre's Elgar concerto for some time, and with its other treasures, this set looks like something of a must....


regards

Tam

You're welcome. Hers should still pretty much be the definitive Elgar.

Norman

Tam,
An afterthought concerning Bachs cellosuites:
I did forget to mention the vital, dancing interpretation of Heinrich Schiff on EMI (midprice). Some find it superficial, but IMHO he strikes just the right mood of these suites , which are so full of "joie de vivre".
Regards

Right, you want ten classic recordings. All of what follow are at mid-price or lower.

1. Beethoven Symphonies 5 & 7 - VPO/Carlos Kleiber (DGG)

2. Puccini Tosca - Callas, Gobbi, Di Stefano La Scala/de Sabata (EMI)

3. Beethoven/Brahms Violin Concertos - Heifetz (RCA)

4. Mozart Marriage of Figaro - Soloists/VPO/Erich Kleiber (Decca)

5. Mahler Das Lied von der Erde - Ferrier, Patzak/VPO/Walter (Decca)

6. Mahler Symphony 4 - Raskin/Cleveland O/Szell (CBS/Sony)

7. Tchaikovsky Symphonies 4, 5 & 6 - Leningrad PO/Mravinsky (DGG)

8. Bach Goldberg Variations - Gould (1955 & 1981 versions) (CBS/Sony)

9. Wagner Tristan und Isolde - Soloists/Philharmonia O/Furtwaengler (EMI)

10. R Strauss Four Last Songs, etc - della Casa/VPO/Boehm (Decca)

Of course, I could easily come up with another four or five similar lists, but every single one mentioned above is remarkable.

Graham

Good list Graham,

The Kleiber 5 and 7 is a wonderful recording. I just recently picked up the Ferrier/Walter Das Lied, and would struggle to want for another, her voice is just so amazing. Recently picked up the Gould goldberg variations too: wonderful, though I think I prefer the 81 recording to the 55 which feels a little rushed. Szell and the cleveland orchestra were always a stunning combination (and the mahler 4 is among their finest achievements), I recently picked up their Beethoven symphony cycle in sony's original jacket series: well worth a punt.


regards,

Tam

OK, I'm back with my list of 10 general classical CDs. First, a short preface: I went to the CD rack and pulled out the first 10 that seem to receive heavy rotation. These are by no means meant to represent a comprehensive introduction to classical music, if that is even possible in 10 CDs. Earlier in the thread, there was a discussion of the Beethoven 9 symphonies. Yes, every good collection should have those, just as recording the 9 seems a rite of passage for great conductors wanting to leave a legacy. However, when I want to listen to something to soothe my mood, rouse my mood, or just ensure some good alpha waving for a good night's sleep, I don't often want to slog my way through a Beethoven, Brahms or Mahler symphony. Yes, I perk up when one comes on the radio, but these get very little play on my system. The folowing may seem lightweight or "program music" by comparison, but all move me in a ying or yang way as the situation dictates.

- First, the best classical CD I have bought in many a year: "Two Hands" by pianist Leon Fleisher: Vanguard Classics ATM CD 1551. This was at or near the top of the New York Times list of best classical CDs released in 2004. I posted the URL for that list here earlier and I'll post it again from work tomorrow. Leon Fleisher has a compelling story: he had to retire from the concert stage at the height of his career with a debilitating ailment of his right hand, diagnosed after many years of consultation as dystonia. He was a highly respected teacher during those years (my second degree connection to him: my piano collaborator in college was a student of his at the Peabody Institute in Baltimore). Anyway, after 35 years he has found relief with botulinum toxin injections. Yes, botox. The liner notes summarize the disease quite well. Anyway, he is a wonderfully evocative pianist and this CD is not to be missed. Get it today.

- Moussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition, orchestrated by Ravel. the JVC XRCD of Fritz Reiner's 1957 recording is a stunning release of what must be the definitive recorded performance. JMCXR-0016

- Gould's performances of the Bach Goldberg Variations (mentioned by Graham above) sparked my recent foray into Bach's keyboard works. Bonus: the 1981 disc in "A Sate of Wonder" Sony S3K 87703 is a HDCD, though neither the case nor the CD say so. Angela Hewitt's interpretation on Hyperion CDA67305 is more measured, and actually has become my favorite version.

- Any of Mitsuko Uchida's Mozart piano sonata recordings on Philips. Better yet, buy them all and save yourself the trouble of returning to the record store.

- Orff's Carmina Burana listed earlier in this thread, RCA 09026-61673-2

- Despite my comment on full length symphonies above, I can always do with a dose of Tchaikovsky's Pathetique symphony (#6). Another XRCD with Fritz Reiner and Chicago: JMCXR-0021.

- While on Tchaikovsky, the short "program" pieces never fail to please. The Telarc recording ofthe 1812 Overture from the 80s and the more recent multichannel SACD are great fun with the real cannon recordings and system taxing sonics. Telarc SACD-60541 also has Marche Slave, Capriccio Italien, Festival Coronation March, Polonaise and Cossack Dance. The XRCD with Munch and Boston of Romeo & Juliet JMCXR-0022 also is a must have.

- While on XRCD: back to Fritz Reiner for Rimsky-Korsakoff's Scheherazade JMCXR-0015

- And, we must not forget Stravinsky: The Firebird and The Rite of Spring belong in every collection. I have The Man himself on Columbia LPs I bought in the 70s. Don't know if they are out on CD, but I do have Telarc's Firebird with Robert Shaw and the Atlanta Symph SACD-60039 and Telarc's Rite with Maazel/Cleveland SACD-60563. BTW, all the Telarcs are hybrid and sound just fine (actually better) on a CDS3.

I think that was more than 10. Again, these simply represent some of CDs I most reach for when I want to be immersed in music to fit a given mood. If that's not why we obsess over our systems, then I don't know.

Norman

So, ten of my preferred classic recordings:

Exp : Excellent performance
Exr : Excellent recording
avr : average recording
avp : average performance (NONE !! cause i think that perforance is more important than recording ...considering audible recordings, of course !)

1 - Beethoven S 5&7 by Kleiber: CD track from the new SACD version appears to be better than DG originals old CD version. (Exr/Exp)

2 - Bach Goldberg Variations - Gould 1981 version (avr/Exp)

3 - Schubert Piano trio Immerseel/Beths/Bylsma - Sony (Exr/Exp)- (one of my CD-tests)

4 - Schubert s8 & 9 - Wand- Berliner P. - RCA.(Exr/Exp)

5 - Bruch/ Mendelssohn - Violin Concertos - Vengerov/Masur - Teldec (Exr/Exp)

6 - Mozart- Requiem - Bohm - Wiener P.- DG.(avr/Exp)

7 - Pergolesi - Stabat Mater - Berganza/Freni - Archiv.(Exr/Exp)

8 - Bach - Keyboard Concertos vol I - Gould/Bernstein - Sony (avr/Exp)

9 - Beethoven- Triple Concerto - Oistrach/Rostro./Richter/Karajan - Berliner P. - EMI (avr/Exp)

10 - Bach - cellosuites - Bylsma - Sony (Exr/Exp)


Enjoy!

Djorg

Second uchida's mozart sonatas, they are simply stunning (her schubert isn't too bad either, but mozart is the must have and Norman is quite right, buy the set, you won't regret it).


regards,

Tam

Tam,

While posting last night, I was listening to the NY Phil. broadcast on my local public radio station with M. Uchida playing Beethoven's piano concerto #4. Lovely. I'll have to check out the Shubert, thanks.

Here's that URL to the New York Times Best Classical Albums of 2004 list.

Norman

I love the 4th concerto (that opening movement is sublime).

Personally though, I think the top nod for schubert is Kempff (similarly on the beethoven concerto Kempff in the 50s, mono, with the BPO and Leitner).

Thanks for the link.

I've been meaning to pick "Two Hands" up ever since I read about it in Gramophone.



regards,

Tam