To get started in Classical music

Norman

I have the Telarc Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture as well and the first time I played it I failed to READ the linear notes about the recording. I think my logic at the time was, "spin, enjoy, and forget." Well, I listen to music generally pretty loud, so I'm sure you can guess what happened next.

Somewhere around 13 minutes I about crapped my pants and thought the civil war re-inactors had moved into the wrong part of town!

Needless to say I now read the linear notes

Aric

Tam,

The Kempff mono is conducted by Paul van Kempen.
The Kempff stereo is conducted by Leitner.
This makes a difference, as van Kempen is the more Beethovenian of the two.

Regards

You're quite right (how stupid of me). Anyway, the mono (van Kempen) is the better. I must be tired


regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Aric:


Somewhere around 13 minutes I about crapped my pants and thought the civil war re-inactors had moved into the wrong part of town!

Needless to say I now read the linear notes

Aric

LOL The first time I played it, I was forewarned and protected my beloved LS3/5As. Now I have big honkin' Dynaudios and its great fun!

Norman

Aric,

I'll be interested to know how you get on with those cds you, if you buy any of them.



regards,

Tam

Yes, Aric. Please post your likes/dislikes. Hopefully, several of these titles will spark an interest in exploring those composers or performers further. My chance encounter with "Kind of Blue" a couuple of years ago has opened a new and ongoing exploration of the world of jazz. Its great to have a new and fresh outlook on music. Now, on the other hand: hip hop......


Norman

Norman,

Small world, Kind of Blue did exactly the same thing for me (I now have about 100 discs of davis, in addition to a fair amount of other jazz).

If you like davis, Ian Carr's biography is a fascinating read.


regards,


Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
Small world,

Hi Tam,

Yes. Until "Kind of Blue" (200 gm Classic Records release in a clearance bin for $10; I have since bought the CD so as not to wear the grooves flat) I only had peripheral exposure to jazz, usually hearing an album or two over dinner at a friend's. I haven't reached 100 titles by Miles, but I probably have 30, and I continue to acquire more. From Miles, I have branched out to names I run across in the liner notes. Coltrane has been hit or miss: he loses me when he gets too unstructured. I've loved every Bill Evans album I've heard. Etc, etc: exploring Miles and those he collaborated with would be a thread of its own, of course.

Regards,

Norman

Guys-

I think I'm going to make a run into Nashville this weekend to buy a bunch of cds there at the Tower Records. I plan on cleaning up, as I recently sold a piece of audio equipment I no longer use. So what better way than to spend the proceeds on music!

Anyway, I DEFINITELY plan on getting the Mackerras cycle of Beethoven, along with the Brahms double, Schubert's 3 symphs, and Mozart's 40&41.

Norman, I'll probably pick up one or two of your recommended violin albums.

And don't worry, I'll be sure to post my thoughts album by album.

Aric

Good deal, Aric. Have a good time.

Norman

Ah the hell with it. I decided it made more sense to just order the cds as 4 1/2 hours of gas is just a couple more cds. Plus, it looks like the Nashville location did not have the particular cds I was looking for.

So on the way are:

Mackerras's cycle of Beethoven's 9 symphs
Solti's Schubert's 3 great symphs...although this one was special order, so it may take a while
Bernstein's Mozart 40&41
Karajan's Brahms and I got the ADD one
Mutter's Vivaldi's 4 seasons on cd...you're right, the picture is nice.

So I'm quite looking forward to getting my hands on these and giving them a spin.

Norman,

I couldn't find the Heifetz on RCA 7708-2-RG. I found a Bach Sonatas and Partitas but I don't think it was on RCA and it certainly wasn't this catalogue number.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Aric

quote:

Originally posted by Aric:
Norman,

I couldn't find the Heifetz on RCA 7708-2-RG. I found a Bach Sonatas and Partitas but I don't think it was on RCA and it certainly wasn't this catalogue number.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Aric

Hi Aric,

Looks like you have alot of listening to do. In Bakersfield, I think I am as isolated as you are from good classical sources, so most of my buying lately as been from good old Amazon.com. Don't worry too much about Heifetz' Bach. The other classic interpretation is Nathan Milstein, which I have on LP from the dark ages. My earlier discussion of Hilary Hahn's talent had me wondering how her Bach unaccompanied sounds, so I have that coming; shipped today, in fact. It is not complete, but does include the all important Partita #2. I'll let you know what I think of it when it comes. I was serious about copying Viktoria Mullova's version to CDR as it is out of print. I don't see liking Hilary's version better than that, so let me know if you are interested in that.

Norman

Hi Norman

If you're willing to go the trouble I'd love to have a copy of Mullova's version!

Also of interest, when I was looking at the above cds, I compared prices to amazon.com and found that the Mackerras set was $10 cheaper at Tower Records. TR is having a sale on classical music (%25 off) on four or five different labels until May 8 I believe. FWIW.

Aric

My current Top 10 is different from when I started in classical music. For example, Brahms 1st Symphony is one of my all tim favorties now, but when I first heard a recording (maybe 1966), I didn't like it at all.

So I'd recommend that a newbie spend some time in a library or listening to the radio to get an idea of what s/he likes, and then buy representative disks.

I'd also recommend attendance at concerts (orchestral, chamber, opera, recitals) followed by looking for recordings of the stuff you like. Hearing Nilsson, Corelli, and Albanese in Turandot on a Saturday afternoon in 1962 is still etched in my memory

Here is the stuff that got me hooked:

Beethoven's Eroica (3rd Symphony) - Toscanini
Bach's Brandenburgs - the version from the marlboro Festival with Piano continuum
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring - Stravinsky
Puccini's Turandot - Nilsson (the first one), then Callas, then Nilsson/Corelli
Rimsky-Korsakov - Sheherezade (how IS that spelled?)
Beethoven's 5th Symphony (Erich Kleiber, Carlos Kleiber, Furtwangler's return to the BPO, Toscanini)
Beethoven's 7th (Toscanini)
Mahler's 1st Symphony
Pictures at an Exhibition - Kubelik/CSO - 1951 Mercury recording
Mozart's Serenade #7 (VPO, Munchinger)

Nowadays, I'd be hard-pressed to name 10. To the above list, I'd want to add:

Beethoven's 4th and 5th Piano concerti (Weissenberg, Ashkenazy, Kempff, Schnabel, Perahia, Fleisher, etc., etc.)

Brahms symphonies (Furtwangler, Bernstein, Szell, etc.)

Brahms piano concerti

Marriage of Figaro - Kleiber conducting, as mentioned above

Magic Flute

Tchaikovsky's 4th-6th symphonies - Mravinsky, as mentioned above

Bartok, Cto for Orchestra - I've heard only the Reiner recording

Mahler 4th symphony - Szell, Mengelberg

The big 4 violin concerti

Dvorak 8, 9 and cello concerto

Mozart piano concerti and most symphonies after, say, #30

Have fun. Don't obssess about recordings or performances - take recommendations, but it's too hard to predict what you're going to like. And your likes/dislikes will change over time.

Regards.

Phil Barry

Phil,

Interesting list. I'd definitely agree with Beethoven's 4th concerto (and, indeed the 5th) and the Szell Mahler 4 is stunning. However, you mention Berstein's Brahms, I've only got his DG cycle with the VPO, but overall I think it's pretty poor (except for an excellent 4th).

Also, don't knock the early Mozart symphonies, if done well they're rather wonderful.

I'd disagree that it's not important to get good recordings. It is. There are a lot of bad recordings (or a least mediocre ones) out there, and a few great ones. Most of the great ones are pretty well universally admired (sure, there's not absolute certainty, but it makes sense to go for what's well regarded). Something like the penguin guide has proved very reliable to me (it's only had one failure - Rattle's Beethoven symphonies which I thought were so bad they're on of the few cds I've sold on).


regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Aric:
Hi Norman

If you're willing to go the trouble I'd love to have a copy of Mullova's version!

Aric

Hi Aric,

Yes, I like Mullova's Bach so well that I would be happy to pass it along. Email me your address to normanatwork(at)hotmail(dot)com.

Yesterday's posting had me get out Nathan Milstein's Bach unaccompanied last night. I listened to the Partita #2 and Sonata #2. Divine! And its not just that I hadn't fired up the LP12 in a couple of weeks. His version deserves its reputation as the performance for later violinists to aspire to. I see that is available on CD Price ain't half bad, either. And, like you say, Tower is having a sale, but I didn't get a hit on my Tower search.

Norman

Hi Phil,

Good list. Thanks for putting the effort into posting it. I see that we agree on several works, if that means anything. I had posted Fritz Reiner's Scheherazade on XRCD earlier in this thread. It's worth getting.

Norman

Hi Norman

You have mail.

Aric

Thanks for the list Phil. I'll definitely have to check some of those titles out.

Does anyone know the Composer who did "The Planets?" At least I'm pretty sure that's the name of the symph. Any recommendations for composers/recordings?

Aric

Aric,

The Planets isn't a symphony, its a suite. It's by Gustav Holst. My recording is Karajan with the Berlin Phil (and is pretty good). I think any reservations I have are probably down to the work (which I'm not the biggest fan of) rather than the recording or performance.


regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
Aric,

The Planets isn't a symphony, its a suite. It's by Gustav Holst. My recording is Karajan with the Berlin Phil (and is pretty good). I think any reservations I have are probably down to the work (which I'm not the biggest fan of) rather than the recording or performance.


regards,

Tam

Ah, I'm supposing that's because The Planets has 8 different sections of a different character, whereas a symphony has only 3 or 4 movements in contrasting forms and keys?

Or is there another reason? I really need a book on this stuff.

Aric

Hi Aric,

I, personally, like "The Planets" quite a lot. I have several versions on LP and CD. It probably gets played in one form or another every couple of months. It is one of those "program pieces" that fits a particular mood: when that mood strikes, nothing else give quite the same "fix". I have similar moods for Pictures at an Exhibition and Carmina Burana, to name just a couple. If I'm not mistaken, the DG LP of Steinberg and the Boston Symphony is on HP's (Absolute Sound) Super Disc (LP) list. The CD that gets the most play is Andre Previn and the Royal Philharmonic Orch on Telarc CD-80133. Just a couple of weeks ago I picked up a CD of Leopold Stokowski and the NBC Symphony at a close out price from Music Direct, under $10 if I remember correctly. You might check their web site. The Stokowski recording is a great performance but marginal sonics. The Previn on Telarc is both a great performance and great sonics. You would want to know, of course, that The Planets is in 8 movements because it was written before Pluto was discovered.

I have used the term "program piece"several times in this thread to imply a work aimed at pleasing the masses and being easily approached. Often, they are meant to evoke a certain mental image or feeling. Others that are supposed to be seen as well as heard are Pictures at an Exhibition, the 1812 Overture, Debussy's La Mer, Saint-Saens' Carnival of the Animals. Ravel's Bolero certainly is a program piece, used to excellent effect in the movie "10". Many would consider such pieces light weight products of their composer's pen. Most would not subject program pieces to in depth analysis. On the other hand, symphonies are more serious endeavors meant to be the magnum opus or legacy of the composer's efforts. You are quite right, with few exceptions, the symphony form is in four movements, usually fast(ish), slow, fast, fast(ish). Composers toil over symphonies often for years. With few exceptions, they are didactic exercises of the composer's skill and, with the possible exception of Beethoven's "Pastorale" symphony, are not meant to evoke a mental image or specific mood. Of course, if you want, you can study how the movements are usually written with the exposition of a theme, development of that theme, introduction of a second theme, etc. I studied all that in college and it was, indeed interesting to know. However, my current listening habits tend towards "if it sounds good, it is good" (Count Basie, I believe). I had a music theory teacher in college who was a wannabe composer and something of an elitist snob. He sniffed at the masses who only like pieces that they can whistle the tune to as they walk out of the concert hall. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. (Though I can't whistle Stravinsky's Rite of Spring)

Norman

Hi Norman,

Thanks for that. Very informative and helpful. I'm curious if you have heard Zubin Mehta's "Planets" and if so, what you think?

Aric

Hi Aric,

You know, I'm not much of a critic when it comes to works for large orchestra. Generally, if it is a well known/respected conductor (which Z Mehta is) with a major orchestra (LA Philharmonic perhaps?) you can't go badly wrong. Sure, a given conductor will take a different tempo from another, and may otherwise engage in artistic license, but the thrill of the piece usually comes through intact. There are conductors who are associated with great interpretations of given works, but even that may not be a universally held truth. Witness even just this thread. Where I am willing to split hairs is with works featuring a soloist or smaller group, particularly, as you have seen, the violin. That's why many of us wind up with multiple versions of any given work. It is interesting to me to hear how Heifetz, Milstein, Mullova and others may play Bach's Chaconne differently and I will put on one or another of the CDs depending on my mood (Heifetz: fiery, Mullova: sensuous). That's part of the fun of collecting great works. But, in the end, the genius is in the composer's writing: all of the interpretations are able to thrill each in their own way. An equivalent situation could be found in theater: Can anyone say who the definitive Hamlet is/was? I believe that you will eventually find yourself getting duplicates of works you particularly like, prob Carmina Burana if I read your posts above correctly. That will enhance your enjoyment of the piece immensely.

Norman

Speaking of Zubin Mehta, a couple of weeks ago I saw a videotape of him playing the bass in Shubert's trout quintet, recorded way back in the 70s, must be, as it had a very young Itzhak Perlman on violin, Pinchas Zuckerman on viola, Jacqueline du Pre on cello and Daniel Barenboim on piano. Thrilling performance that apparently has not been memorialized on CD as I can't find it. Anybody out there know of a copy?

Hi lads

Karajan made an earlier recording of The Planets for Decca in the 1960s with the VPO, which is very good indeed. I've never heard the DGG/Berlin remake, but the first is thought to be better.

G