To get started in Classical music
Posted by: Aric on 13 April 2005
...what's more important, if one had to narrow it to one particular criteria:
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Posted on: 29 April 2005 by Aric
Hi Norman,
Yes, Mehta did The Planets with LPO and it's this LP that I'm eyeing.
I listened to Carmina Burana yesterday and it really is a fun work. I'll have to track down the St. Louis Philarmonic copy.
As far as comparing Carmina to a symphony say, I think mood is a very determining factor, but in general I'd opt for Beethoven's or Dvorak's 9th.
I'm very much looking forward to getting Beethoven's complete cycle. Obviously taste is a preference, but I've heard concerning Beethoven, it's his odd number symphs that are the more enduring of the collection. I guess I'll find out.
Vivaldi, Brahms, and Mozart shoud be here today!
Aric
Yes, Mehta did The Planets with LPO and it's this LP that I'm eyeing.
I listened to Carmina Burana yesterday and it really is a fun work. I'll have to track down the St. Louis Philarmonic copy.
As far as comparing Carmina to a symphony say, I think mood is a very determining factor, but in general I'd opt for Beethoven's or Dvorak's 9th.
I'm very much looking forward to getting Beethoven's complete cycle. Obviously taste is a preference, but I've heard concerning Beethoven, it's his odd number symphs that are the more enduring of the collection. I guess I'll find out.
Vivaldi, Brahms, and Mozart shoud be here today!
Aric
Posted on: 29 April 2005 by Cosmoliu
Hi Aric,
Yes, the odd numbers are the most enduring. Of course, the one that gets the most play on my system is #9. The story is probably apocryphal, but Sony's chairman (Morita?) supposedly insisted that the Red Book CD standard allow for play time adequate for inclusion of #9 to be played straight through. My fave is Seijii Ozawa (can't think of the orch right off) on LP. Haven't listened to Dvorak's New World in eons. Maybe I should drag it out this weekend.
Norman
Yes, the odd numbers are the most enduring. Of course, the one that gets the most play on my system is #9. The story is probably apocryphal, but Sony's chairman (Morita?) supposedly insisted that the Red Book CD standard allow for play time adequate for inclusion of #9 to be played straight through. My fave is Seijii Ozawa (can't think of the orch right off) on LP. Haven't listened to Dvorak's New World in eons. Maybe I should drag it out this weekend.
Norman
Posted on: 30 April 2005 by Aric
Tam,
You mentioned Verdi's Requiem in similar style as to Carmina Burana, correct?
Whose rendtion would you suggest?
BTW, I was quite impressed with Bernstein's Mozart (40&41) - especially 40.
Aric
You mentioned Verdi's Requiem in similar style as to Carmina Burana, correct?
Whose rendtion would you suggest?
BTW, I was quite impressed with Bernstein's Mozart (40&41) - especially 40.
Aric
Posted on: 01 May 2005 by bazz
Re the Bach Cello suites, I recently bought the Alexander Rubin set on Naxos, which also includes a transcription of the Chaconne from partita No 2.
The first five suites are played on a six string cello dating from 1740, the sixth on a modern five string instrument.
Wonderful performances and a beautifully atmospheric recording at a bargain price.
The first five suites are played on a six string cello dating from 1740, the sixth on a modern five string instrument.
Wonderful performances and a beautifully atmospheric recording at a bargain price.
Posted on: 01 May 2005 by pe-zulu
Bazz,
Yes, you are right. Slim, crisp tone and light dancing athmosphere, and no hint of the usual russian-cellist-lead-heavy romantic view. I too like it much.
Just two corrections, the cellist is called Alexander RUDIN, and he plays the first five suites on a FOUR stringed cello. A six stringed cello would be quite a sensation, even today.
Regards,
Yes, you are right. Slim, crisp tone and light dancing athmosphere, and no hint of the usual russian-cellist-lead-heavy romantic view. I too like it much.
Just two corrections, the cellist is called Alexander RUDIN, and he plays the first five suites on a FOUR stringed cello. A six stringed cello would be quite a sensation, even today.
Regards,
Posted on: 01 May 2005 by bazz
Of course - how dumb of me. Anyway, wonderful music which will remain at the top of my CD stack for a long time.
Another favourite of mine on Naxos is the Eder quartets' complete recordings of Mozart's string quartets. Volume 8 (K499, K590, plus the Adagio and Fugue K546 as a filler) is my latest acquisition. I've never seen the full set in one place, so I just collect them as I go. So far they're all excellent.
I also enjoy Jeno Jando's playing of the Well Tempered Clavier and Lucy van Daels set of the Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin, both also on Naxos. Some real bargains there for very little cash.
I've yet to find a recording of the Brandenburg Concertos which I like though. I currently have three versions, two scratchy recordings on Naxos and a stodgy performance by the Academy of St Martin in The Fields under Marriner. I'm determined to find a lively, interesting, well recorded performance. Perhaps Pinnock?
Another favourite of mine on Naxos is the Eder quartets' complete recordings of Mozart's string quartets. Volume 8 (K499, K590, plus the Adagio and Fugue K546 as a filler) is my latest acquisition. I've never seen the full set in one place, so I just collect them as I go. So far they're all excellent.
I also enjoy Jeno Jando's playing of the Well Tempered Clavier and Lucy van Daels set of the Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin, both also on Naxos. Some real bargains there for very little cash.
I've yet to find a recording of the Brandenburg Concertos which I like though. I currently have three versions, two scratchy recordings on Naxos and a stodgy performance by the Academy of St Martin in The Fields under Marriner. I'm determined to find a lively, interesting, well recorded performance. Perhaps Pinnock?
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Tam
quote:Originally posted by Aric:
Tam,
You mentioned Verdi's Requiem in similar style as to Carmina Burana, correct?
Whose rendtion would you suggest?
BTW, I was quite impressed with Bernstein's Mozart (40&41) - especially 40.
Aric
Glad you liked the Mozart (funny, I've always preferred 41 to 40, but it would be really boring here if all our tastes were the same).
I think, with regard to the verdi, what I said was it was the only thing I had in my collection that I could think of that was even close (since Carmina Burana is unique, unless you could its sequel, Catulli Carmina, I've not heard it, but apparently Welser-Most's recording on EMI is the one to go for). However, it is a bit choral work (if a little earlier), with some stunning moments that have great potential to annoy the neighbours. But don't get it thinking it'll be another Carmnia Burana: it won't. I have Abbado and the BPO but am not convinced it's the best (and would be a little hesitant to recommend one, because I really don't know the work all that well).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
I did some searching on this forum, since asking about the Verdi, and it seems the Abbado was also a popular pick. Being pretty cheap, I'll have to give it a try.
How does Mozart's Requiem compare?
Thoughts on new selections:
So far I have listened to Beethoven's 3,5,6,7 & 9 (Mackerras). I felt the most emotion with his 7th...absolutely beautiful! But of course it really is mood dependent, and his 5th is a great example.
Of Mozart's 40 & 41 (Bernstein), I think I liked 40 more. The exchange of violin at the beginning is just great. Kinda like they're asking a question, decide they don't care, then issue the same question just to be redundant, but in a wistful, playing mood.
Of Schubert's 5,8, & 9 (Solti) I am less decided. It's between the 8th and 9th though. More listening MAY decide.
Haven't had a go with Brahms yet. He's on deck.
Vivaldi was great! Excellent recording and Mutter was very spirited.
When I order my next batch of cds, I think I would like to try a Mahler or Haydn. Any recommendations?
Aric
I did some searching on this forum, since asking about the Verdi, and it seems the Abbado was also a popular pick. Being pretty cheap, I'll have to give it a try.
How does Mozart's Requiem compare?
Thoughts on new selections:
So far I have listened to Beethoven's 3,5,6,7 & 9 (Mackerras). I felt the most emotion with his 7th...absolutely beautiful! But of course it really is mood dependent, and his 5th is a great example.
Of Mozart's 40 & 41 (Bernstein), I think I liked 40 more. The exchange of violin at the beginning is just great. Kinda like they're asking a question, decide they don't care, then issue the same question just to be redundant, but in a wistful, playing mood.
Of Schubert's 5,8, & 9 (Solti) I am less decided. It's between the 8th and 9th though. More listening MAY decide.
Haven't had a go with Brahms yet. He's on deck.
Vivaldi was great! Excellent recording and Mutter was very spirited.
When I order my next batch of cds, I think I would like to try a Mahler or Haydn. Any recommendations?
Aric
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Glad you enjoyed the discs (you're right, of course, Beethoven 7 isn't for all moods. The best example I heard was Daniel Harding live, he hasn't recorded it, with a small german chamber orchestra, giving their penultimate concert together, I was literally on the edge of my seat).
Haydn. In terms of symphonies, go for the later ones (london and paris, from about 80 upwards). Personally, I think you can't go wrong with Bernstein and Haydn (I think he just makes the music so joyful). DG have recently been boxing up his recordings, and one of the sets has symphonies 88, 92 and 94, along with his stunning Creation and one or two other things, played with the VPO.
Mahler is harder. But the best ones to get started with are probably 1 and 4. 4, no question, pick up Szell and the Cleveland orchestra on sony. 1, there are a couple of good recordings: Bernstein (on DG with the Royal Concertgebrow), Mackerras with the RLPO is also good , as is Abbado with the BPO. You might also like to try 2 (its finale is absolutely stunning), Rattle with the CBSO is probably best although Abbado's most recent effort with the Lucerne festival orchestra is also good. You might also care to try number 5, here, again, Rattle, this time along with the BPO is probably best (although Abbado in Berlin and Mackerras with the RLPO are also good). With Mahler, anything conducted by Solti is also a fairly safe bet (though doubtless others here will disagree - favourite Mahler recordings tend to be something of a personal taste, just because there's such a range of interpretations).
regards,
Tam
Glad you enjoyed the discs (you're right, of course, Beethoven 7 isn't for all moods. The best example I heard was Daniel Harding live, he hasn't recorded it, with a small german chamber orchestra, giving their penultimate concert together, I was literally on the edge of my seat).
Haydn. In terms of symphonies, go for the later ones (london and paris, from about 80 upwards). Personally, I think you can't go wrong with Bernstein and Haydn (I think he just makes the music so joyful). DG have recently been boxing up his recordings, and one of the sets has symphonies 88, 92 and 94, along with his stunning Creation and one or two other things, played with the VPO.
Mahler is harder. But the best ones to get started with are probably 1 and 4. 4, no question, pick up Szell and the Cleveland orchestra on sony. 1, there are a couple of good recordings: Bernstein (on DG with the Royal Concertgebrow), Mackerras with the RLPO is also good , as is Abbado with the BPO. You might also like to try 2 (its finale is absolutely stunning), Rattle with the CBSO is probably best although Abbado's most recent effort with the Lucerne festival orchestra is also good. You might also care to try number 5, here, again, Rattle, this time along with the BPO is probably best (although Abbado in Berlin and Mackerras with the RLPO are also good). With Mahler, anything conducted by Solti is also a fairly safe bet (though doubtless others here will disagree - favourite Mahler recordings tend to be something of a personal taste, just because there's such a range of interpretations).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
Hi Tam,
Hmmm, many possibilities. I think I'll try Mahler's 2nd and 4th to start. What are your thoughts on Mehta's Mahler?
Also, what's a good rendition of Mozart's Requiem?
(Peppering of questions continues)...as much as I like Beethoven, I'm tempted to try Furtwangler's wartime interpretations, specifically M&A's new box set. I realize the sound quality is pretty poor here (I'm not even sure I've heard a mono recording) and was wondering if this to severe a handicap? Or would you suggest to wait a while and let my ear develop?
Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Aric
Hmmm, many possibilities. I think I'll try Mahler's 2nd and 4th to start. What are your thoughts on Mehta's Mahler?
Also, what's a good rendition of Mozart's Requiem?
(Peppering of questions continues)...as much as I like Beethoven, I'm tempted to try Furtwangler's wartime interpretations, specifically M&A's new box set. I realize the sound quality is pretty poor here (I'm not even sure I've heard a mono recording) and was wondering if this to severe a handicap? Or would you suggest to wait a while and let my ear develop?
Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Aric
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
I'm afraid I haven't heard any of Mehta's Mahler, so I can't comment.
Mozart's Requiem, I can tell you that Mozart himself died before completing it and, I think, the most regularly performed/recorded version was that completed by Sussmayr, but (shamefully) I can't comment on any of these since I don't own a single recording.
Mono isn't necessarily a problem (I have quite a few mono recordings). At the moment I got a box of Furtwangler mono recordings sitting unopened on my 'to be listened to' shelf, give me a week or two to get round to them and I'll let you know.
You could always try picking up just one mono disc, so you can see if it bothers you (Kempff's 50s mono beethoven piano concertos are particularly fine).
regards,
Tam
I'm afraid I haven't heard any of Mehta's Mahler, so I can't comment.
Mozart's Requiem, I can tell you that Mozart himself died before completing it and, I think, the most regularly performed/recorded version was that completed by Sussmayr, but (shamefully) I can't comment on any of these since I don't own a single recording.
Mono isn't necessarily a problem (I have quite a few mono recordings). At the moment I got a box of Furtwangler mono recordings sitting unopened on my 'to be listened to' shelf, give me a week or two to get round to them and I'll let you know.
You could always try picking up just one mono disc, so you can see if it bothers you (Kempff's 50s mono beethoven piano concertos are particularly fine).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
Well okay, let me know what you think of Furtwangler.
Aric
Well okay, let me know what you think of Furtwangler.
Aric
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
Norman,
Did you get a chance to dig out Dvorak's New World Symph over the weekend?
Aric
Did you get a chance to dig out Dvorak's New World Symph over the weekend?
Aric
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
On a side note, is Reiner particularly adept at any one composer or the other? I noticed he has a lot of XRCDs - of which I own Dvorak's 9th - so the sound quality should be good.
Aric
Aric
Posted on: 02 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
It appears Szell's Mahler no. 4 is no longer in production.
Amazon had a few copies from various merchants, but they were all pretty pricey. Any other suitable candidates?
Aric
It appears Szell's Mahler no. 4 is no longer in production.
Amazon had a few copies from various merchants, but they were all pretty pricey. Any other suitable candidates?
Aric
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by kevj
Aric,
I've always liked the Horenstein/LPO Mahler 4. The performance is wonderful (except for a few split notes in the horns!!). It's available in the UK for about £5 - I think. A bit of a bargain......
Kevin
I've always liked the Horenstein/LPO Mahler 4. The performance is wonderful (except for a few split notes in the horns!!). It's available in the UK for about £5 - I think. A bit of a bargain......
Kevin
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by pe-zulu
Bazz,
Still more agreement. Of the five recordings of Bachs soloviolinpieces I know, van Daels is certainly the most rewarding, from a musical as well as from a tecnical point of view.IMO Kuijken´s and Huguett´s are laboured, Wallfisch´s fussy and Podger´s a little overcontrolled.
You might try van Daels recordings of Bachs violin-harpsichord sonatas (with Bob van Asperen) on Naxos as well.
I prefer harpsichord to piano (for Bach), and to make things worse I think Jandos Wohltemperierte is stiff and heavyhanded. I much prefer Leonhardt (midprice on German Harmonia Mundi) or Gilbert (midprice on DG Archive).
Why do you call the two sets Brandenburgs on Naxos scratchy? Did you treat them too violent?
Do you prefer period or modern instruments? If period Pinnock (Archive) is a fine choice - or Hans-Martin Linde or Siegbert Rampe (both on Virgin classics).
Regards,
Still more agreement. Of the five recordings of Bachs soloviolinpieces I know, van Daels is certainly the most rewarding, from a musical as well as from a tecnical point of view.IMO Kuijken´s and Huguett´s are laboured, Wallfisch´s fussy and Podger´s a little overcontrolled.
You might try van Daels recordings of Bachs violin-harpsichord sonatas (with Bob van Asperen) on Naxos as well.
I prefer harpsichord to piano (for Bach), and to make things worse I think Jandos Wohltemperierte is stiff and heavyhanded. I much prefer Leonhardt (midprice on German Harmonia Mundi) or Gilbert (midprice on DG Archive).
Why do you call the two sets Brandenburgs on Naxos scratchy? Did you treat them too violent?
Do you prefer period or modern instruments? If period Pinnock (Archive) is a fine choice - or Hans-Martin Linde or Siegbert Rampe (both on Virgin classics).
Regards,
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by bazz
pe-zulu
"Scratchy" was probably a poor choice of adjective. What I meant to convey was that they were thin sounding and generally unrewarding.
However I hadn't played them for a while and, seeing my system has improved a lot lately, I tried one set again tonight, the Cologne Chamber Orchestra under Helmut Muller-Bruhl. It sounds very much better than I remember. I don't have any particular preference for period instruments, but I think I'll still try the Pinnock version.
Thanks for the recommendation on Lucy Van Daels recordings of the harpsichord-violin sonatas, I'll seek them out. That reminds me, I also have a Naxos 2 CD set of the aforementioned Cologne Chamber Orchestra playing various Bach concertos for one and three harpsichords which is very good, especially disc 2.
I've also acquired a couple of Angela Hewitts piano recordings lately, I particularly enjoy her Goldberg Variations. So much to listen to, so little time.
"Scratchy" was probably a poor choice of adjective. What I meant to convey was that they were thin sounding and generally unrewarding.
However I hadn't played them for a while and, seeing my system has improved a lot lately, I tried one set again tonight, the Cologne Chamber Orchestra under Helmut Muller-Bruhl. It sounds very much better than I remember. I don't have any particular preference for period instruments, but I think I'll still try the Pinnock version.
Thanks for the recommendation on Lucy Van Daels recordings of the harpsichord-violin sonatas, I'll seek them out. That reminds me, I also have a Naxos 2 CD set of the aforementioned Cologne Chamber Orchestra playing various Bach concertos for one and three harpsichords which is very good, especially disc 2.
I've also acquired a couple of Angela Hewitts piano recordings lately, I particularly enjoy her Goldberg Variations. So much to listen to, so little time.
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by Aric
Hi pe-zulu,
How would you compare
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos, etc / Goebel, Pinnock, et al (DG 2GP2 469103)
vs.
Bach: 6 Brandenburg Concertos, 4 Suites / Pinnock, et al (DG 423492)
?
Aric
How would you compare
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos, etc / Goebel, Pinnock, et al (DG 2GP2 469103)
vs.
Bach: 6 Brandenburg Concertos, 4 Suites / Pinnock, et al (DG 423492)
?
Aric
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by Cosmoliu
quote:Originally posted by Aric:
Norman,
Did you get a chance to dig out Dvorak's New World Symph over the weekend?
Aric
No, sorry. I'll see tonight what version(s) I have. I got into shipments from Amazon.com (Hilary Hahn Bach concertos and Bach unacc. Partitas 2& 3, Sonata 3; Janis Ian (!)) and from Chesky (a couple of Brazilian women, one pairing with Ron Carter). Hilary Hahn does a great job with the Bach. Hard to get my mind around the idea that the sound coming out of the speakers is her first recording at the age of 16!
Norman
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by Cosmoliu
quote:Originally posted by bazz:
I've also acquired a couple of Angela Hewitts piano recordings lately, I particularly enjoy her Goldberg Variations. So much to listen to, so little time.
Bazz,
I completely agree with you on Angela Hewitt and the Goldbergs. I started with Glenn Gould's Sony release of the 1955 and 1981 versions, then Andras Schiff and finally Angela Hewitt. I stopped my acquisitions there as she really does it for me. I also have her "French Suites" which is less known to me, but I'm getting there! You're so right: way too much to listen to.
Norman
BTW, I haven't acted yet on the Origin Live motor upgrade. Been listening more to CD lately than vinyl. Art Dudley did a good write up on it in the latest Stereophile.
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
The Szell certainly does seem to have been deleted out there (shame because it's the best around). Perhaps they've deleted it prior to a rerelease, so you could e-mail sony and see, I'd be surprised if they were removing it from the catalogue permanently. But, then again, these record companies do funny things. If you want, I could pick it up out here and mail it out to you (it only goes for £5 and still seems to be available).
regards,
Tam
The Szell certainly does seem to have been deleted out there (shame because it's the best around). Perhaps they've deleted it prior to a rerelease, so you could e-mail sony and see, I'd be surprised if they were removing it from the catalogue permanently. But, then again, these record companies do funny things. If you want, I could pick it up out here and mail it out to you (it only goes for £5 and still seems to be available).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by bazz
quote:I also have her "French Suites" which is less known to me, but I'm getting there!
Norman
I've seen that set in the shops, it is my next planned foray into the world of Bach. Then the English Suites and also the Hilary Hahn violin concertos you mention.
I think I'm becoming an addict, and I haven't even started on the organ or choral works yet.
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by bazz
I also had it in my head to buy the complete Mitsuko Uchida set of Mozart's piano concertos, to go with her set of the piano sonatas which I own and love.
But, yesterday on the radio I heard Richard Goode with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra playing No.27, which I enjoyed so much I'm now thrown into confusion. So far as I can tell he's only recorded four of these works with the Orpheus though. More research required I think.
But, yesterday on the radio I heard Richard Goode with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra playing No.27, which I enjoyed so much I'm now thrown into confusion. So far as I can tell he's only recorded four of these works with the Orpheus though. More research required I think.
Posted on: 03 May 2005 by Aric
Hey Tam,
Drop me a line at arcowne@yahoo.com and we can talk.
Thanks,
Aric
Drop me a line at arcowne@yahoo.com and we can talk.
Thanks,
Aric