To get started in Classical music

So what's the consensus on Reiner?

BTW,

I find Brahms a lot easier to immerse in than Schubert. I like his 1st a lot. However, he's still no Beethoven.

Aric

I've read that uchida's concertos are disappointing when compared to her sonatas. I'm very happy with Murray Perahia's complete set with the ECO. Goode and the Orpheus have (I think done about 4 discs) as have Brendel/Mackerras and the SCO (whose are very good).


regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by bazz:
I also had it in my head to buy the complete Mitsuko Uchida set of Mozart's piano concertos, to go with her set of the piano sonatas which I own and love.

But, yesterday on the radio I heard Richard Goode with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra playing No.27, which I enjoyed so much I'm now thrown into confusion. So far as I can tell he's only recorded four of these works with the Orpheus though. More research required I think.

Hi Bazz, Tam,

I also have several of M. Uchida's recordings of Mozart piano concertos, and do not reach for them nearly as much as I do her sonatas. I don't dislike the concerto interpretations, I just think the sonatas have a more intimate feel that I am more often in a mood for. I also have John O'Conor, Claudio Arrau, and Murray Perahia playing various of the concertos; all quite good. Like I posted above, I usually value duplicates of works I love more for the variety than to try to ascertain which is the "definitive" version. For instance, I had posted above that among versions by Heifetz, Milstein, Mullova, my favorite Bach unaccompanied partitas for violin is Viktoria Mullova's, but I bought Hilary Hahn's CD of #2, #3 and Sonata #3 just the other day just because I wanted to hear how she performed those works. It is compelling in its own way, and I never regret owning multiples of works that are dear to me.

Norman

quote:

Originally posted by bazz:
the Cologne Chamber Orchestra under Helmut Muller-Bruhl. It sounds very much better than I remember.
I also have a Naxos 2 CD set of the aforementioned Cologne Chamber Orchestra playing various Bach concertos for one and three harpsichords which is very good, especially disc 2.
I've also acquired a couple of Angela Hewitts piano recordings lately, I particularly enjoy her Goldberg Variations. So much to listen to, so little time.

Bazz,

Muller-Bruhl and his Cologne Chamber Orchestra have for Naxos recorded seven CD-s of Bach
concertos. Besides the Brandenburgs all harpsichord concertos, violinconcertos, suites and
reconstructed violinconcertos and oboeconcertos. All of them competent, warm and pleasant interpretations.

Even if I think the piano is an unsuited medium for harpsichord-music in general, I have
contemplated to try some of Hewitts Bach recordings. Maybe her French suites is the best
starting point?

You are very right: All too much music to listen to, but I prefer this to the opposite
situation.

Regards,

quote:

Originally posted by Aric:
Hi pe-zulu,

How would you compare

Bach: Brandenburg Concertos, etc / Goebel, Pinnock, et al (DG 2GP2 469103)

vs.

Bach: 6 Brandenburg Concertos, 4 Suites / Pinnock, et al (DG 423492)
?

Aric

Aric,

I suppose, you want me to compare Pinnocks and Goebels Brandenburgs.

Both sets are played by a small group of exquisite period instruments experts.
The recorded sound is crisp and clear in both, Pinnocks is marginally more full-sounding,
Goebels is marginally more spiky-sounding.

Goebel adopts very fast tempi even in the slow movements, and the playing is light-footed and springy. Almost adding a Vivaldi- or Telemann-like athmosphere. A special case is the first movement of concerto nr.6, which is rushed beyond recognition and played with heavy accents. The opening and concluding one minute lasting canon of the two soloviolas is impossible to grasp. Not even Harnoncourt is so "radical". Altogether Goebels version expresses to some extent a demonstrative "hear-how-fast-we-can-play" attitude, and they can indeed easily play that fast, but the result is a bit superficial.

Pinnock adopts slower and well judged tempos, and he is much more substantial and searching. IMO he makes the logical and musically right solution almost everywhere, and he will stay one of my preferred interpretators of this music.

Regards,

Tam,

Yup, that's the Bernstein I like...or liked. Now that you made me really think about it, when I reach for Brahms' 1st Symphony, it's almost always Furtwangler's 1951 Hamburg recording; 2nd choice is a Toscanini from the '30s that I can't find (so, no details).

I don't mean to knock early mozart; it's just that I don't listen to that music much.

I counsel 'not obssessing over recording quality' because there's a lot out there that's very enjoyable even if it's not got the imprimatur of a well-known critic or conductor or player, etc. My wife's favorite Mozart 40 was done by the Brown University orchestra 40-odd years ago - Brown doesn't have a music school, but THAT performance really moved her.

Heh, heh, heh, I cherish a Mengelberg recording of Mahler's 4th...I prefer the Szell, though. I also like the (gulp) Bernstein with the boy soprano and, IIRC, the VPO. Maybe I like the VPO.

The Reiner recordings are noted for their sound. Harry Pearson and his absolute Sound rag publicized lists of 'super recordings', and many Reiner RCAs made the list.

As a result, when deciding on reissues, companies naturally gravitated towards the RCA catalog, since there was a built-in market for them.

I find the Reiner/CSO recordings wonderful to listen to, because of the sound quality, but except for the Beethoven 5th (not th greatest sound), I usually reach for recordings other than Reiner's when I want to listen to a piece of music.

Regards.

Phil

Hi Phil,

I understand what you mean about the fretting over performances etc. Thanks for the insight on Reiner.

Regards,

Aric

Hello Aric,

BBC radio-3 is playing the complete Beethoven next month [Jun-2005] and they will have downloads [free] of the symphonies...


Look at this ...

http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrecht/050505-NL-Beethoven.html


James

Aric

Reiner's CSO recordings of Richard Strauss and Respighi (to name but two) are wonderful readings, superbly recorded in early stereo. I have most of Reiner's Living Stereo CD reissues and they have an astonishingly high standard of musical performance and technical excellence.

Reiner was one of the last true podium martinets. He was known, with heavy irony, as "Friendly Fritz". After his death one CSO player opined: "Not much of a conductor, but a hell of a nice guy."

Graham

"Better bad food with good friends than good food with ..."
[What is a bad friend ? a bad friend is not a friend !]

Look at Bach's Goldberg Variations. I bought Naxos version years ago which has great sound [see later] but no soul. Eventually bought Glenn Gould version which is mono [1955 , he has two versions] and Gould sings along with the music. [bad sound by any criteria]. I love it. It works !! [Before you buy Gould -- you are getting started in classical music -- understand that people either hate him or love him so I don't give this as a definite recomendation !!].

SO .. performance above recording quality !!

The best is good food with good friends !!

Harry

Erich

If I had to go for one version of the Goldbergs, it would have to be Andras Schiff's recent ECM set, recorded live (not to be confused with his older Decca studio recording).

Glenn Gould is wonderful (I have 1955 and 1981), but is not, in my view, an only or library choice.

Graham

I found this rather handy online guide to recommendations: http://www.roughguides.co.uk/music/music.html

Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bull:
I found this rather handy online guide to recommendations: http://www.roughguides.co.uk/music/music.html

Steve.

That link doesn't work for me ....

I was interested to see a review of a cheap box set of Beethoven's symphonies I've just ordered from Amazon marketplace for about £17 :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000004CYT/202-0793307-6285409

I already have a copy of the 9th by Hogwood, and assume it's the same recording in this box set, and the "original style" performance works for me.

Any opinions on this set?

Ian,

Don't know that particular set. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, I think the best set is Mackerras/RLPO (though, of course that isn't on period instruments). I only have one period set, and that's Gardiner and the ORR. According to the penguin guide it's the first choice on period instruments.

I've found your set in the penguin guide and it gives it 2.5 stars out of 3 and gets a fairly positive review (sorry, I'm not going to type it out for you). It talks of a vivid recording and praises the soloists on the 9th. However, it is not as 'alert or imaginative' as its rivals.


regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
[snip]2.5 stars out of 3 and gets a fairly positive review (sorry, I'm not going to type it out for you)[snip]

Tam, thanks for that. As I said I liked the 9th which I have already, so was fairly sure it wouldn't be a flop. For £17 it should at least be an introduction, and I can always try other versions if any of the pieces make a particular impression.

Ian

That's true, for that kind of price you can't go that far wrong. And if you liked of the readings that probably bodes fairly well for the others. I'll be interested to hear your views when you've listened to the whole set.


regards,

Tam

Oops. Try this instead - http://www.roughguides.co.uk/music/classical.html

S.

Ian Pilgrim,

I know the Hogwood Beethoven-set. It is rather classical in approach, as it should be, featuring a relative small ensemble of period instruments, the sound of which is most beautiful and exciting. When you get tired of monumental hyperromantical versions of Beethovens symphonies, this set constitutes a real recreation. Only one small drawback : The vocal-soloists in the Choral are but just acceptable. Althogether this set deserves a strong recommandation.

Regards,

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bull:
Oops. Try this instead - http://www.roughguides.co.uk/music/classical.html

S.

That's better. Very useful, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
That's true, for that kind of price you can't go that far wrong. And if you liked of the readings that probably bodes fairly well for the others. I'll be interested to hear your views when you've listened to the whole set.


regards,

Tam

It won't be that insightful an opinion, by I'll let you know if I enjoy them! Won't be for a little while as I'm getting them from the States.

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
Ian Pilgrim,

I know the Hogwood Beethoven-set. It is rather classical in approach, as it should be, featuring a relative small ensemble of period instruments, the sound of which is most beautiful and exciting. When you get tired of monumental hyperromantical versions of Beethovens symphonies, this set constitutes a real recreation. Only one small drawback : The vocal-soloists in the Choral are but just acceptable. Althogether this set deserves a strong recommandation.

Regards,

That's good news, thanks. As I said I already have the 9th, and bought it over the Karajan having listened to both. To me the Hogwood has a more intimate and expressive feel to it, and gives a real sense of joy in the final movement, whereas the Karajan is too in your face.

I'm looking forward to getting the set, and as I said to Tam I'll post when I've had a chance to listen.

Hi Tam,

Have you broke into the Furtwangler yet?

Aric

Pe-zulu,

Thanks for the advice on the Bach set. I plan on checking out the Pinnock set.

You have mentioned period instruments quite frequently, I'm assuming these are actual instruments from the said time period, or are they made to some older spec? Why and how do they differ from what musicians use today?

Aric

quote:

Originally posted by Aric:
Hi Tam,

Have you broke into the Furtwangler yet?

Aric

Sorry, no. I should explain - I have, at present a backlog of about 40 or so cds (some dating as far back as my excessive expenditure in the post-Christmas sales) which I've yet to listen to. At the moment I'm working on a rather good 4 disc set of late schubert string quartets played by the lindsays. However, I should be able to make a start on the Furtwangler tomorrow - so I'll let you know (where you interested in him doing any particular composer, because there are a fair few on the set, and I can always play those discs first).


regards,

Tam