To get started in Classical music
Posted by: Aric on 13 April 2005
...what's more important, if one had to narrow it to one particular criteria:
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Posted on: 11 May 2005 by Aric
Tam
I am interested in his Beethoven renditions, especially the earlier, War time (42-45 I think) symphonies that are often cited as "angry" etc. I know the ones recorded later in the 50's are supposed to be better recordings, but it seems the 40's are the definitive performances.
Regards,
Aric
I am interested in his Beethoven renditions, especially the earlier, War time (42-45 I think) symphonies that are often cited as "angry" etc. I know the ones recorded later in the 50's are supposed to be better recordings, but it seems the 40's are the definitive performances.
Regards,
Aric
Posted on: 12 May 2005 by Tam
Okay, the set I've got are the live recordings (between '44 and '53). There are only two bits of Beethoven: symphony no. 7 dating from '53 and Leonore III overture, recorded in '44. I should listen to them later on today, so I'll let you know.
regards,
Tam
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 12 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Well, I've finally got round to listening to that first disc of the Furtwangler. It's difficult for me to review the Leonore overture, since I don't really know the work well enough. Symphony no.7, on the other hand, I know backwards, indeed it's my favourite. As such, i found it rather disappointing. For my, it's a work that should be both incredibly joyful and exciting, yet both these qualities seemed absent in this reading. There was a little more grandeur that usually present, but I didn't feel that added much. Overall the tempos were fairly slow (which, for this work, aren't, in my view, a good thing). It did find its feet towards the end of the last movement (which did finish very well indeed), however, up until that point the excitement was sorely lacking.
Which only leaves the issue of recording quality. I know I've said elsewhere on this thread that if the performance is good enough the quality of the recording doesn't matter, and I stick to that. However, if the performance is, at best, mediocre, then it starts to matter an awful lot. The fact that the distortion is so evident whenever the volume is loud, or the pops and crackles in the background, or the lack of detail. Suffice to say this is not a disc I'll be spinning often. Still, at £10 for the 6 disc set, I can't really complain too much.
There are a great many better sevenths (Kleiber with the VPO and Mackerras with the RLPO, to name but two).
My reference for the seventh is sadly not on disc. I heard the work live a couple of years ago, conducted by Daniel Harding and played by the Deutsche Khammerphilharmonie (a small chamber orchestra, whose name I hope I've spelt correctly). They were playing their penultimate concert together at the Maltings in Snape (a small concert hall on the suffolk coast that used to be a grain maltings). Anyway, they played with an incredible energy and I was on the edge of my seat from start to finish. In any recording now, I look for similar qualities (which probably means this isn't the best test).
However, as I write this, I'm listening to start of Furtwangler conducting Schubert's unfinished symphony, and that sounding much more promising. I'll tell you more as I get further into the set.
regards,
Tam
Well, I've finally got round to listening to that first disc of the Furtwangler. It's difficult for me to review the Leonore overture, since I don't really know the work well enough. Symphony no.7, on the other hand, I know backwards, indeed it's my favourite. As such, i found it rather disappointing. For my, it's a work that should be both incredibly joyful and exciting, yet both these qualities seemed absent in this reading. There was a little more grandeur that usually present, but I didn't feel that added much. Overall the tempos were fairly slow (which, for this work, aren't, in my view, a good thing). It did find its feet towards the end of the last movement (which did finish very well indeed), however, up until that point the excitement was sorely lacking.
Which only leaves the issue of recording quality. I know I've said elsewhere on this thread that if the performance is good enough the quality of the recording doesn't matter, and I stick to that. However, if the performance is, at best, mediocre, then it starts to matter an awful lot. The fact that the distortion is so evident whenever the volume is loud, or the pops and crackles in the background, or the lack of detail. Suffice to say this is not a disc I'll be spinning often. Still, at £10 for the 6 disc set, I can't really complain too much.
There are a great many better sevenths (Kleiber with the VPO and Mackerras with the RLPO, to name but two).
My reference for the seventh is sadly not on disc. I heard the work live a couple of years ago, conducted by Daniel Harding and played by the Deutsche Khammerphilharmonie (a small chamber orchestra, whose name I hope I've spelt correctly). They were playing their penultimate concert together at the Maltings in Snape (a small concert hall on the suffolk coast that used to be a grain maltings). Anyway, they played with an incredible energy and I was on the edge of my seat from start to finish. In any recording now, I look for similar qualities (which probably means this isn't the best test).
However, as I write this, I'm listening to start of Furtwangler conducting Schubert's unfinished symphony, and that sounding much more promising. I'll tell you more as I get further into the set.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 13 May 2005 by Phil Barry
A CD that says it's a Furt recording apparently may not, in fact, be a Furt recording. Also, many Furt recordings are very poor.
I decided to listen to Furt's wartime stuff only after some soul-searching. The guy seems to have been one of the nazis' favorites, after all.
After reading John Ardoin's Furt biography, I decided to listen...perhaps Furt was not, in fact, pro-nazi.
The wartime Beethoven recordings I've heard have astounded me. I cannot fathom how a nazi could hear those performances and not go home and commit suicide in shame and despair because of the evil he (the nazi who heard the performance) perpetrated. Almost every performance I've heard seems like a Prophetic condemnation of the powers that were.
BUT - the only wartime recordings I have are on the Music & Arts label...M&A Furt 1008-1011 and CD4049, for example.
I've seen stuff attributed to Furt on the Iron Needle label at a lot lower price, but....
To find some info and very informed opinion on Furt recordings, search the newsgroups on 'Fogel Furtwangler'....I think the most relevant group is rec.music.classical.recordings, or somesuch.
The Fogel in the search I suggest is Henry Fogel, an acknowledged expert in the Furt discography (and other historical performances as well) and former president of the Chicago Symphony, now president of the America Symphony Orchetsra League (or soemthing like that).
Not only is he a prolific writer, at one time he participated in the newsgroups a lot, and he willingly answered e-mailed questions from ignoramuses - but don't ask me how I know THAT!
His hifi ears are terrible, alas - he's wedded to Mark Levinson equipment. But I find his Furt recommendations absolutely right on.
BTW, there's a recording of Beethoven's 5th Symphony from Furt's reunion concert with the BPO in May, 1947 - the Allies banned him in the de-Nazification. It is a fantastic performance. Fantatsic. Absolutely incredible. Amazing. Maybe perfect....
There's a Brahms symphony set on M&A, too, that's GREAT - CD941(4).
My first Furt was Beet 3,5,7 on EMI's budget set. Recordings in '53 &'54, I believe, withthe VPO. I love the VPO in other things, but these performances don't move me much.
Similarly, theres an EMI CD set of the Brahms symphonies that don't match the insight and realness (? magic?) of the CD941 set (which has performances by various orchestras...maybe Hamburg, a Swedish orchestra, etc., IIRC). Maybe it's the difference between the studio and the concert hall.
Anyway, I wish I could be half as articluate as Arola in describing the music I've mentioned....
Regards.
Phil
I decided to listen to Furt's wartime stuff only after some soul-searching. The guy seems to have been one of the nazis' favorites, after all.
After reading John Ardoin's Furt biography, I decided to listen...perhaps Furt was not, in fact, pro-nazi.
The wartime Beethoven recordings I've heard have astounded me. I cannot fathom how a nazi could hear those performances and not go home and commit suicide in shame and despair because of the evil he (the nazi who heard the performance) perpetrated. Almost every performance I've heard seems like a Prophetic condemnation of the powers that were.
BUT - the only wartime recordings I have are on the Music & Arts label...M&A Furt 1008-1011 and CD4049, for example.
I've seen stuff attributed to Furt on the Iron Needle label at a lot lower price, but....
To find some info and very informed opinion on Furt recordings, search the newsgroups on 'Fogel Furtwangler'....I think the most relevant group is rec.music.classical.recordings, or somesuch.
The Fogel in the search I suggest is Henry Fogel, an acknowledged expert in the Furt discography (and other historical performances as well) and former president of the Chicago Symphony, now president of the America Symphony Orchetsra League (or soemthing like that).
Not only is he a prolific writer, at one time he participated in the newsgroups a lot, and he willingly answered e-mailed questions from ignoramuses - but don't ask me how I know THAT!
His hifi ears are terrible, alas - he's wedded to Mark Levinson equipment. But I find his Furt recommendations absolutely right on.
BTW, there's a recording of Beethoven's 5th Symphony from Furt's reunion concert with the BPO in May, 1947 - the Allies banned him in the de-Nazification. It is a fantastic performance. Fantatsic. Absolutely incredible. Amazing. Maybe perfect....
There's a Brahms symphony set on M&A, too, that's GREAT - CD941(4).
My first Furt was Beet 3,5,7 on EMI's budget set. Recordings in '53 &'54, I believe, withthe VPO. I love the VPO in other things, but these performances don't move me much.
Similarly, theres an EMI CD set of the Brahms symphonies that don't match the insight and realness (? magic?) of the CD941 set (which has performances by various orchestras...maybe Hamburg, a Swedish orchestra, etc., IIRC). Maybe it's the difference between the studio and the concert hall.
Anyway, I wish I could be half as articluate as Arola in describing the music I've mentioned....
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 13 May 2005 by Aric
Phil
I'm glad you mentioned the M&A set, in fact that was the one I was eyeing. I think the only symphony that wasn't too popular with the masses was his Pastoral, as the "angry" overtone doesn't really work too well with the piece. Was that your impression as well?
Aric
I'm glad you mentioned the M&A set, in fact that was the one I was eyeing. I think the only symphony that wasn't too popular with the masses was his Pastoral, as the "angry" overtone doesn't really work too well with the piece. Was that your impression as well?
Aric
Posted on: 14 May 2005 by pe-zulu
Aric,
Period instruments are originalinstruments or rather restored originalinstruments from a given historical period fx. baroque, or modern exact copies of such instruments.
During the last 200 years musical instruments have undergone much change,the primary aim of which has been to increase the volume of the instruments and to enable the musicians to play chromatic notes in tune more easily. The price has been that the sound of these instruments has become less delicate and crisp.
Some of the changes are, that the brass have got valves, the woodwinds have got keys, the traverse flute is made of silver instead of wood, the stringinstruments have got metal strings instead of gut strings, and the reasonance leading elements in stringed instruments have been strenghtened. And the harpsichord has been replaced by the piano, and the viola da gamba by the violoncello. All these things exert a crucial influence upon the inner balance of the orchester, as well as upon the sound in general. Baroque music fx. was written for baroque instruments, and this is why many people prefer this music to be played on baroque instruments, as this recreates the music more true, provided the musicians master the instruments and are well-imformed as to the given style (HIP = historical informed performance).
Regards,
Period instruments are originalinstruments or rather restored originalinstruments from a given historical period fx. baroque, or modern exact copies of such instruments.
During the last 200 years musical instruments have undergone much change,the primary aim of which has been to increase the volume of the instruments and to enable the musicians to play chromatic notes in tune more easily. The price has been that the sound of these instruments has become less delicate and crisp.
Some of the changes are, that the brass have got valves, the woodwinds have got keys, the traverse flute is made of silver instead of wood, the stringinstruments have got metal strings instead of gut strings, and the reasonance leading elements in stringed instruments have been strenghtened. And the harpsichord has been replaced by the piano, and the viola da gamba by the violoncello. All these things exert a crucial influence upon the inner balance of the orchester, as well as upon the sound in general. Baroque music fx. was written for baroque instruments, and this is why many people prefer this music to be played on baroque instruments, as this recreates the music more true, provided the musicians master the instruments and are well-imformed as to the given style (HIP = historical informed performance).
Regards,
Posted on: 14 May 2005 by Aric
Ah, thank you Pe-zulu. You're a wealth of information. I noticed when I went to see a Dvorak concert a few months ago that the harpsichord and piano were interchanged, neither were out at the same time. Having said that, I prefer symphonies that do not use a piano. I much prefer the piano as a solo instrument, and I find that when other instruments are played around it, the sound gets washed out. Although it is entirely possible I was sitting too far away - middle of the concert hall, two-thirds the way up?
Aric
Aric
Posted on: 16 May 2005 by Tam
Personally, the piano is my favourite instrument for concertos since, unlike the other instruments it provides a totally different and contrasting sound to the rest of the orchestra. Check out some Beethoven concertos.
I tend to be firmly on the modern side of the period/modern instruments debate, especially for anything beethoven or later (that's not to say there aren't plenty of great performances on period instruments, and for the like of Bach, I prefer them). However, these days, the two tend to be rather blending together as you get performances on modern instruments that attempt to ape some of the characteristics of period performance and period instruments which are played in such a way as to take some of their edge off and make them sound more 'modern' (which, in my view, rather defeats the point).
regards,
Tam
I tend to be firmly on the modern side of the period/modern instruments debate, especially for anything beethoven or later (that's not to say there aren't plenty of great performances on period instruments, and for the like of Bach, I prefer them). However, these days, the two tend to be rather blending together as you get performances on modern instruments that attempt to ape some of the characteristics of period performance and period instruments which are played in such a way as to take some of their edge off and make them sound more 'modern' (which, in my view, rather defeats the point).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 16 May 2005 by Aric
Well I agree that it is a completely different sound. Perhaps the acoustics, programme material, et al were not favorable under the circumstances I heard them in. Perhaps also, that my ear will develop with more frequented exposure.
I have been looking via Ticketmaster's web site for local concerts (St. Louis, Nashville, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Lexington) and I noticed next month there are a few Beethoven performances, notably his 5th and 9th. Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choices. What is the frequency in the US for a major/semi major city and a classical concert? Also, should I be looking somewhere else besides Ticketmaster?
Aric
I have been looking via Ticketmaster's web site for local concerts (St. Louis, Nashville, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Lexington) and I noticed next month there are a few Beethoven performances, notably his 5th and 9th. Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choices. What is the frequency in the US for a major/semi major city and a classical concert? Also, should I be looking somewhere else besides Ticketmaster?
Aric
Posted on: 16 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Do the Cleveland Orchestra make it down your way at all? I saw them last year when they went on tour to Europe and they were staggeringly good.
Also, might bear in mind that the frequency of concerts is going to be low over the next couple of months anyway. Seasons tend to run from the autumn (say about September) through to late spring/early summer (about the end of may). After which the orchestras tend to go on tour, a few of them come over for the various European music festivals.
regards,
Tam
Do the Cleveland Orchestra make it down your way at all? I saw them last year when they went on tour to Europe and they were staggeringly good.
Also, might bear in mind that the frequency of concerts is going to be low over the next couple of months anyway. Seasons tend to run from the autumn (say about September) through to late spring/early summer (about the end of may). After which the orchestras tend to go on tour, a few of them come over for the various European music festivals.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 16 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
Ah, I guess everyone is too busy playing in the rays to want to sit inside for any length of time. Makes sense though.
As for the Cleveland Symphony, I am not sure. I'll have to look into it. One problem I'm having is that the Beethoven concerts are in Nashville, but Ticketmaster is basically useless with details, as I can't find out if it's the Nashville Symph. or another one.
Maybe I can catch one - probably the 9th - this summer, but I'll really keep my eyes peeled starting in the Fall.
Regards,
Aric
Ah, I guess everyone is too busy playing in the rays to want to sit inside for any length of time. Makes sense though.
As for the Cleveland Symphony, I am not sure. I'll have to look into it. One problem I'm having is that the Beethoven concerts are in Nashville, but Ticketmaster is basically useless with details, as I can't find out if it's the Nashville Symph. or another one.
Maybe I can catch one - probably the 9th - this summer, but I'll really keep my eyes peeled starting in the Fall.
Regards,
Aric
Posted on: 17 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Your best bet for finding tickets might be to go via the orchestras' websites directly. I.e. log on to one of your local orchestras, see what they're doing and they'll almost certainly have links for you to buy tickets.
Once you've bought tickets direct from a particular venue once, that should get you stuck on their mailing list (which can be something of a mixed blessing).
regards,
Tam
Your best bet for finding tickets might be to go via the orchestras' websites directly. I.e. log on to one of your local orchestras, see what they're doing and they'll almost certainly have links for you to buy tickets.
Once you've bought tickets direct from a particular venue once, that should get you stuck on their mailing list (which can be something of a mixed blessing).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 24 May 2005 by Tam
I have just finished listening to Morten Zeuthen's recording of Bach's cello suites (thanks again for supplying them Poul) and, I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed them. However, particularly in the first suite, I did find them a little 'edgy' or 'jittery' at times. But, either the style grew on me, or he settled down a little as he went on, because on the whole I found the set very musical and poetic. I particularly enjoyed the 6th suite. I also agree that the recording quality is wonderful.
So, how, in my view, do they stack up against my other recordings of these works. Well, I have yo yo ma's second set, which, while technically excellent, are, to a certain extent, lacking in emotion. My favourite are still Rostropovich (I think we're not going to agree on this one), there's just a certain something about them that really transports me in a way this set doesn't quite manage. (I suspect our difference of opinion on this one is probably down to the fact I tend to prefer stuff from the romantic period.)
None the less, an excellent cd and one I'm very glad to have in my collection. Heinrich Schiff's should be arriving soon (I've been meaning to pick those up for a while and saw them on offer - I've been a fan of his ever since I saw him at the Edinburgh festival a few years back, I'll never forget the way he stabbed the spike of his cello into the wooden dais at the start of each piece) and I'll post my thoughts on that set as soon as I've heard it.
regards,
Tam
So, how, in my view, do they stack up against my other recordings of these works. Well, I have yo yo ma's second set, which, while technically excellent, are, to a certain extent, lacking in emotion. My favourite are still Rostropovich (I think we're not going to agree on this one), there's just a certain something about them that really transports me in a way this set doesn't quite manage. (I suspect our difference of opinion on this one is probably down to the fact I tend to prefer stuff from the romantic period.)
None the less, an excellent cd and one I'm very glad to have in my collection. Heinrich Schiff's should be arriving soon (I've been meaning to pick those up for a while and saw them on offer - I've been a fan of his ever since I saw him at the Edinburgh festival a few years back, I'll never forget the way he stabbed the spike of his cello into the wooden dais at the start of each piece) and I'll post my thoughts on that set as soon as I've heard it.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 24 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
I've had the chance for a once-over on the Szell Mahler. I'm afraid it wasn't much of a listening session as I kept getting interrupted, but from what I heard I liked. Very melodic and VERY romantic. Especially the first movement, which was the one I remember best. I'll let you know more as I get the chance. Thanks again for picking that up for me!
Regards,
Aric
I've had the chance for a once-over on the Szell Mahler. I'm afraid it wasn't much of a listening session as I kept getting interrupted, but from what I heard I liked. Very melodic and VERY romantic. Especially the first movement, which was the one I remember best. I'll let you know more as I get the chance. Thanks again for picking that up for me!
Regards,
Aric
Posted on: 24 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
No problem. But for the 4th you really need to listen to it uninterrupted otherwise it just isn't the same. I like the first movement, but I also think the soprano in the 4th is just beautiful.
regards,
Tam
No problem. But for the 4th you really need to listen to it uninterrupted otherwise it just isn't the same. I like the first movement, but I also think the soprano in the 4th is just beautiful.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 24 May 2005 by graham55
Szell's Mahler 4 is unbeatable, in my opinion, although I've just ordered Friendly Fritz Reiner's RCA CSO recording (unheard) and will be fascinated to hear what he does with it.
Heinrich Sciff in solo Bach is my absolute favourite.
Graham
Heinrich Sciff in solo Bach is my absolute favourite.
Graham
Posted on: 25 May 2005 by Tam
I agree about the szell mahler 4 (none of my 5 other recordings of it come close), but I don't have the Reiner one, so I'll be interested to hear your views on it. I was considering picking up Daniel Harding's new recording with the mahler chamber orchestra (if anyone's heard it).
Glad to hear you like the Schiff Bach.
regards,
Tam
Glad to hear you like the Schiff Bach.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 25 May 2005 by Phil Barry
Szell beats Reiner hands down on Mahler's 4th.
Thanks to a sometime participant in this forum, I have a recording of the 4th by Mengelberg and the Concertgebouw. I hesitate to say it's better than szell, but it certainly is good, and Mengleberg and Mahler were friends.
The orchestral sound is very transparent, and it's very easy to hear different instruments contribute to the whole. Very nice, indeed.
Phil
Thanks to a sometime participant in this forum, I have a recording of the 4th by Mengelberg and the Concertgebouw. I hesitate to say it's better than szell, but it certainly is good, and Mengleberg and Mahler were friends.
The orchestral sound is very transparent, and it's very easy to hear different instruments contribute to the whole. Very nice, indeed.
Phil
Posted on: 25 May 2005 by Tam
Thanks Phil, might have to check that one out. Of course, there are few better orchestras in the world for mahler than the Concertgebouw.
regards,
Tam
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 26 May 2005 by pe-zulu
Tam,
Nice to hear that you enjoyed Morten Zeuthens Bach-suites.
If you consider trying other interpretations, I would recommend the apollonic Pierre Fournier,
a sort of the Otto Klemperer of the cello, neither romantic nor "period" but completely his own.
Regards,
Poul
Nice to hear that you enjoyed Morten Zeuthens Bach-suites.
If you consider trying other interpretations, I would recommend the apollonic Pierre Fournier,
a sort of the Otto Klemperer of the cello, neither romantic nor "period" but completely his own.
Regards,
Poul
Posted on: 27 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
I've listened to some more of that Furtwangler set and have very much liked what I've heard. One disc contained some excellent Brahms (including a great second symphony and the variations on a theme by hadyn), and I'm now listening to a rather good Bruckner's 8th symphony. On the strength of this I've ordered EMI's set of his beethoven symphonies, and I'll let you know how the rest of those are when it shows up. I think the reason I was pretty negative about the beethoven on this set is that I'm very fussy (probably too fussy) about how I like the 7th played, so it's not a very good measure.
regards,
Tam
I've listened to some more of that Furtwangler set and have very much liked what I've heard. One disc contained some excellent Brahms (including a great second symphony and the variations on a theme by hadyn), and I'm now listening to a rather good Bruckner's 8th symphony. On the strength of this I've ordered EMI's set of his beethoven symphonies, and I'll let you know how the rest of those are when it shows up. I think the reason I was pretty negative about the beethoven on this set is that I'm very fussy (probably too fussy) about how I like the 7th played, so it's not a very good measure.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 27 May 2005 by Aric
Tam,
Thanks for the update on Furtwangler. I think I will eventually take a punt on the M&A set when I've exhausted my current thirst for the Macherras. I finally found a place - one in this damn town - that sells classical music and I've been wanting to ask what Bruckner's style is (romantic etc.) and where the best place is to start? Their inventory is a long ways from being great, but I was combing through it the other day and noticed they had a decent pick of Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Dovark, Vivaldi, Bach, Mahler, and artists like Yo Yo Ma and Rasparovich (s/p) etc.
Aric
Thanks for the update on Furtwangler. I think I will eventually take a punt on the M&A set when I've exhausted my current thirst for the Macherras. I finally found a place - one in this damn town - that sells classical music and I've been wanting to ask what Bruckner's style is (romantic etc.) and where the best place is to start? Their inventory is a long ways from being great, but I was combing through it the other day and noticed they had a decent pick of Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Dovark, Vivaldi, Bach, Mahler, and artists like Yo Yo Ma and Rasparovich (s/p) etc.
Aric
Posted on: 27 May 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Bruckner is firmly one of the romantics (a contemporary of Mahler, albeit a little earlier). His work is a little more flowing and a little less schizophrenic than mahler's. I think there's a wonderful lyricism to his symphonies. Probably the best place to start is symphony no. 4 (which has some fantastic music in it), no. 8 is also wonderful. Georg Tintner has a good, and very cheap, survey of all the symphonies (including his early 'practice' efforts) on naxos. Jochum is also a fairly good bet for Bruckner. The penguin guide recommends Karajan and the VPO for number 8 and Wand and the BPO for number 4. I have heard the Karajan 8 once some years ago, but I can't really remember it, I haven't heard the Wand 4.
Rostropovich is a **** to spell right
regards,
Tam
Bruckner is firmly one of the romantics (a contemporary of Mahler, albeit a little earlier). His work is a little more flowing and a little less schizophrenic than mahler's. I think there's a wonderful lyricism to his symphonies. Probably the best place to start is symphony no. 4 (which has some fantastic music in it), no. 8 is also wonderful. Georg Tintner has a good, and very cheap, survey of all the symphonies (including his early 'practice' efforts) on naxos. Jochum is also a fairly good bet for Bruckner. The penguin guide recommends Karajan and the VPO for number 8 and Wand and the BPO for number 4. I have heard the Karajan 8 once some years ago, but I can't really remember it, I haven't heard the Wand 4.
Rostropovich is a **** to spell right
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 04 June 2005 by Tam
Aric,
I have just bought, and finished listening to EMI's complete set of Beethoven symphonies conducted by Furtwangler. They mostly studio recordings with the Vienna Phil., though there are two other orchestras, dating from the early 50s though 2,8 and 9 are all live. 2 and 8 come from radio recordings in '48, 8 with the Stockholm Phil., and are very poor quality indeed (lots of pops and crackles). 9 is a live recording from the restarting of the Bayreuth festival in '51 and is probably (even allowing for less than perfect sound) one of the most powerful and brilliant 9th symphonies I've ever heard. On the whole the set is very good (and, if I had to rank it, it would probably tie for second place with Szell's cycle with the Cleveland orchestra). The live performances do have a little more zip to them, but are (especially in the case of 2 and 8) badly let down by quality.
Mackerras remains my top choice, but I'm glad to own this and it's made for some great listening over the last couple of days.
regards,
Tam
I have just bought, and finished listening to EMI's complete set of Beethoven symphonies conducted by Furtwangler. They mostly studio recordings with the Vienna Phil., though there are two other orchestras, dating from the early 50s though 2,8 and 9 are all live. 2 and 8 come from radio recordings in '48, 8 with the Stockholm Phil., and are very poor quality indeed (lots of pops and crackles). 9 is a live recording from the restarting of the Bayreuth festival in '51 and is probably (even allowing for less than perfect sound) one of the most powerful and brilliant 9th symphonies I've ever heard. On the whole the set is very good (and, if I had to rank it, it would probably tie for second place with Szell's cycle with the Cleveland orchestra). The live performances do have a little more zip to them, but are (especially in the case of 2 and 8) badly let down by quality.
Mackerras remains my top choice, but I'm glad to own this and it's made for some great listening over the last couple of days.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 06 June 2005 by pe-zulu
Beethovens symphonies made up my first serious encounter with classical music, and they were an important part of my musical conscience until other interests became more urgent. In the last years my interest in Beethovens symphonies has been revived by the period movement and by the piano arrangements by Liszt. Recently (thanks to Tam) I had the opportunity to listen to Carlos Kleibers recording of the 5.th and 7.th symphony with the Wiennaphilharmonics from the 1970.ies(DG originals), which I hadn´t heard before. And this is really a wonderful interpretation. Kleibers overall wiew is primarily based on the structure of the music, like my favorite Klemperer, but Kleiber makes a much more lively impression. This is partly due to faster tempi, but even more to a livelier and more gesticulating articulation. Sometimes I wondered if this was stage music. An approach like that harbours the risk of superimposing some unsubstantiated assertions upon the music, but this is not the case with Kleiber. On the contrary I find, that he just reveals the latent expressive content of he music to a degree that no one else has done, and I find the recordings mandatory for anyone serious interested in Beehovens symphonies. Stongly recommended.
Regards,
Regards,