To get started in Classical music
Posted by: Aric on 13 April 2005
...what's more important, if one had to narrow it to one particular criteria:
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Excellent recording with an average performance
or
Excellent performance with an average recording
???
Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.
Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.
Aric
Posted on: 06 June 2005 by Tam
Glad you enjoyed the cd.
regards,
Tam
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 14 June 2005 by Tam
Listened to the Schiff Bach last night and very much enjoyed. Rostropovich is still top for me, but this was very good (though not helped by the fact that my system had been powered down for 2 weeks while I was away - which, if nothing else, served as a reminder of why I don't normally switch if off 
).
I felt he perhaps took it a little quickly sometimes, but there's no disputing the quality of his playing and I enjoyed the set more and more as I progressed through it (might have to listen again in a week or so, so I can eliminate warm up effects from my opinion).
regards,
Tam
).I felt he perhaps took it a little quickly sometimes, but there's no disputing the quality of his playing and I enjoyed the set more and more as I progressed through it (might have to listen again in a week or so, so I can eliminate warm up effects from my opinion).
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by pe-zulu
Dear Tam
Among the ca. twenty versions of Bachs Cellosuites, I have heard, I will put Schiffs version in the uppermost end, not much unlike the Zeuthen version, even if I prefer Zeuthen (and Thedeen - see above). IMO Schiffs tempi are very well judged and well balanced with his dancing style. I am sure, that you will find it better and better with repeated listening, just as the Zeuthen version.
Regards,
Among the ca. twenty versions of Bachs Cellosuites, I have heard, I will put Schiffs version in the uppermost end, not much unlike the Zeuthen version, even if I prefer Zeuthen (and Thedeen - see above). IMO Schiffs tempi are very well judged and well balanced with his dancing style. I am sure, that you will find it better and better with repeated listening, just as the Zeuthen version.
Regards,
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by Tam
I think I'd generally agree with that. I was just the tempo on the very first movement that didn't quite work for me (perhaps because that was the first bit of any of them that I ever heard, and it was stuck in my mind like that for so long). I might listen again now that my system seems to be singing again.
regards,
Tam
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by KenM
For a really committed version of the Bach cello suites, try Janos Starker on EMI. The sound is nothing special, but the performances are quite different from anyone else I have heard (though I've only heard 4 or 5 others). To me, it's the sort of committment that Kleiber gives in the Beethoven 5th on the DG Originals CD.
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by pe-zulu
KenM, I have not heard any of Starkers versions, but thanks for the recommendation, which I seriously consider to follow. Another committed and special version is Peter Wispelway´s on Channel Classics (the second of his two versions the most individual).
Regards,
Regards,
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by Aric
Tam,
I picked up a copy of Mozart's Requiem the other day - Shaw and the Atlanta SO on Telarc and it was very impressive. A good recording and a spirited performance.
I also picked up Kleiber's 5th & 7th of Beethoven - seriously, how many copies of one symphony is reasonable to own? I suspect I'm quite unreasonable.
Picked up Munch and the Boston Symph on the new SACD Living Stereo release of some French composers: Saint-Saens, Debussy, and Ibert. And another SACD, this time with Reiner and some Russian composers: Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Kabalevsky, and Glinka.
I'll let you know what I think of Kleiber and the Living Stereo reissues.
Aric
I picked up a copy of Mozart's Requiem the other day - Shaw and the Atlanta SO on Telarc and it was very impressive. A good recording and a spirited performance.
I also picked up Kleiber's 5th & 7th of Beethoven - seriously, how many copies of one symphony is reasonable to own? I suspect I'm quite unreasonable.
Picked up Munch and the Boston Symph on the new SACD Living Stereo release of some French composers: Saint-Saens, Debussy, and Ibert. And another SACD, this time with Reiner and some Russian composers: Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Kabalevsky, and Glinka.
I'll let you know what I think of Kleiber and the Living Stereo reissues.
Aric
Posted on: 16 June 2005 by Tam
Well, I own 8 complete sets of Beethoven symphonies, with another 3 I intend to acquire, so you've probably got a little way to go before you get to too many!
The Kleiber 5&7 is one the classic recordings (it was voted second greatest disc of the century on BBC Radio 3, second only to Solti's Wagner Ring Cycle). Not sure that's quite how I'd rank things, but it certainly is a great disc.
Don't know that Requiem, in fact, I don't know the piece all that well, the only recording I have is Mackerras (surprise, surprise
) with the SCO, what's interesting is that it's a revised version that tries to correct some of the flaws introduced when Sussmayr finished it after Mozart's death.
I'd be interested to hear what the living stereo releases sound like, I've heard good things about them, but not actually heard any of them yet.
regards,
Tam
The Kleiber 5&7 is one the classic recordings (it was voted second greatest disc of the century on BBC Radio 3, second only to Solti's Wagner Ring Cycle). Not sure that's quite how I'd rank things, but it certainly is a great disc.
Don't know that Requiem, in fact, I don't know the piece all that well, the only recording I have is Mackerras (surprise, surprise
) with the SCO, what's interesting is that it's a revised version that tries to correct some of the flaws introduced when Sussmayr finished it after Mozart's death.I'd be interested to hear what the living stereo releases sound like, I've heard good things about them, but not actually heard any of them yet.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 16 June 2005 by Aric
WOW!! You guys weren't joking about the Kleiber performances. For the 5th, it was like hearing it for the first time, especially the second movement. The 7th was equally as good I think. Hard to say which symphony I prefer, but if pressed I would probably still have to go with the 7th.
On a side note, I haven't been able to get enough of Brahms' 1st symph, especially in relation to the final movement, which IMHO is clearly in the top 3 movements of classical music.
Aric
On a side note, I haven't been able to get enough of Brahms' 1st symph, especially in relation to the final movement, which IMHO is clearly in the top 3 movements of classical music.
Aric
Posted on: 16 June 2005 by Aric
Somewhere else someone mentioned Beethoven's string quartets, especially Op 130. Does anyone have a recommendation for a particualr copy?
Posted on: 16 June 2005 by Tam
Aric,
Glad you enjoyed the Kleiber. The man did know what he was doing, sadly he made it to the recording studio relatively infrequently and died last summer.
As to string quartets (which came up on the thread about Radio 3's Beethoven experience) I have one complete set, by the Lindsays, which I think is very good, and was pretty cheap. I also have a set of the later quartets by the Takacs Quartet (I think they've also done the other ones), on Decca which is also very good. The Takacs are better on some, the Lindays on others (but it's a while since I've listened to all of them, and I can't recall which is better for which).
According to the penguin guide, the set by the Vegh Quartet is the one to have but the Lindsays, the Italian Quartet and the Alan Berg Quartet all get good reviews.
regards,
Tam
Glad you enjoyed the Kleiber. The man did know what he was doing, sadly he made it to the recording studio relatively infrequently and died last summer.
As to string quartets (which came up on the thread about Radio 3's Beethoven experience) I have one complete set, by the Lindsays, which I think is very good, and was pretty cheap. I also have a set of the later quartets by the Takacs Quartet (I think they've also done the other ones), on Decca which is also very good. The Takacs are better on some, the Lindays on others (but it's a while since I've listened to all of them, and I can't recall which is better for which).
According to the penguin guide, the set by the Vegh Quartet is the one to have but the Lindsays, the Italian Quartet and the Alan Berg Quartet all get good reviews.
regards,
Tam
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Aric
I must say that Munch's (w/ Boston Philharmonic) Saint-Saens "Organ" symphony is absolutely stunning. Even on a Rega Planet cdp the sonics are amazing, and I must say, the fact that it's a hybrid SACD/cd takes nothing away. Although as Norman said earlier, these hybrids appear to be better.
Norman,
I'll let you know what I think of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition here shortly.
Regards,
Aric
Norman,
I'll let you know what I think of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition here shortly.
Regards,
Aric
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Cosmoliu
quote:Originally posted by Aric:
Norman,
I'll let you know what I think of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition here shortly.
Regards,
Aric
Norman
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by graham55
I'd strongly endorse the Vegh Quartet in Beethoven. Available at low midprice in an 8CD box on Valois. Not as technically immaculate as, say, the Quartetto Italiano, but playing of great passion and poetry (although lots of sniffing from Sandor Vegh). If you want just the late quartets, the Italians' recordings are available on a Philips 3 CD set.
You can't go too far wrong!
G
You can't go too far wrong!
G
Posted on: 25 February 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear friends,
In my view ther were three recordings of the Brandenbergs, that still have to be eclipsed.
In order of recording they are:
1, Adolf Busch Comumbia (UK) 1935. [out on Pearl].
2, Schola cantorum Basiliensis, Auust wenzunger DG Arkiv 1950/3 nla
3, HM Linde Consort Vigin early eighties. nla
Firstly, Busch brought a fresh, splendid musical response to the old texts, which were performed in two of six concertos with one to a pert readings. out on Pearl.
Schola Cantorum. A razor sharp representaion of the texts, if humiane, readings, but as pe-zulu states with modern intruments used in some wind and brass parts. Not available, so Hors Concours.
HM Linde. Presents exempalry HIP readings, if not superior musically to Wenzinger, of whom HM L was a student. They are better from the recording angle, and the best of the moderms. Also not available, currently, which is saddening, and amazing.
This lovely Thread occured during one of my absenses!
All the best from Fredrik
In my view ther were three recordings of the Brandenbergs, that still have to be eclipsed.
In order of recording they are:
1, Adolf Busch Comumbia (UK) 1935. [out on Pearl].
2, Schola cantorum Basiliensis, Auust wenzunger DG Arkiv 1950/3 nla
3, HM Linde Consort Vigin early eighties. nla
Firstly, Busch brought a fresh, splendid musical response to the old texts, which were performed in two of six concertos with one to a pert readings. out on Pearl.
Schola Cantorum. A razor sharp representaion of the texts, if humiane, readings, but as pe-zulu states with modern intruments used in some wind and brass parts. Not available, so Hors Concours.
HM Linde. Presents exempalry HIP readings, if not superior musically to Wenzinger, of whom HM L was a student. They are better from the recording angle, and the best of the moderms. Also not available, currently, which is saddening, and amazing.
This lovely Thread occured during one of my absenses!
All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 25 February 2006 by Squonk
Excellent atmospheric and relaxing CD -
..oops posted to wrong thread and no deletion rights granted
Posted on: 26 February 2006 by Guido Fawkes
quote:Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dear friends,
In my view ther were three recordings of the Brandenbergs, that still have to be eclipsed.
In order of recording they are:
1, Adolf Busch Comumbia (UK) 1935. [out on Pearl].
2, Schola cantorum Basiliensis, Auust wenzunger DG Arkiv 1950/3 nla
3, HM Linde Consort Vigin early eighties. nla
Firstly, Busch brought a fresh, splendid musical response to the old texts, which were performed in two of six concertos with one to a pert readings. out on Pearl.
Schola Cantorum. A razor sharp representaion of the texts, if humiane, readings, but as pe-zulu states with modern intruments used in some wind and brass parts. Not available, so Hors Concours.
HM Linde. Presents exempalry HIP readings, if not superior musically to Wenzinger, of whom HM L was a student. They are better from the recording angle, and the best of the moderms. Also not available, currently, which is saddening, and amazing.
This lovely Thread occured during one of my absenses!
All the best from Fredrik
Fredrik
My knowledge is very limited in this area, but tonight I listened to my 25+ year old records of Branddenburgische Konzerte performed by Frans Bruggen, Sigiswald Kuijken, Gustav Leonhardt et al. played on original instruments (RCA RL30400 SEON). I think it was originally recorded at the end of the 70s. I've not listened to it nearly enough. I wonder if you are familiar with this recording and could say how it rated against the recommendations you have given above.
This is the only version I know and I bought it all those years ago because of its use of original instruments and it gots lots of favourable reviews. On listening to it tonight I thought it still sounded like great music well played. Would be interested in your views.
One thing I always find difficult if I buy music of this nature is how to choose between the different interpretations.
Many Thanks, Rotf
Posted on: 26 February 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Rotf,
I am not sure if I have heard these artists all together, though I have listened to performances of Leonhardt, Kujiken (a real favoutie actually), and Bruggen (live with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, I think), and they were or are all splendid, though naturally they all are different to some degree. I actually have live radio recordings of Kujiken, which I prefer to the gramophone records, even if they are not quite the technically perfect exmples the studio allows for. In the studio, there is an issue with the Second Concerto, as I remember it, because he employs a horn rather than trumpet. This idea emerged when Thurston Dart made records of them. It is distinctly odd. The live performances use a proper Baroque trumpet, though it is a treacherous instrument to play! One of music's high-wire acts if ever. I actually prefer the effect of the valved High Bach Trumpet, which emerged in the Thirties (if not earlier?) and enabled the music to be played at its intended pitch, but with a greater degree of technical security. The player can start to be musical with it, rather than merely being worried about how to get the notes out.
It is a shame about the HM LInde set being unavailable, but Pinnock's set is fine, and coreect, and unexagerated.
Youu recorde cartainly containa stellar list of players! I bet they make a wonderful combination.
All the best frem Fredrik
I am not sure if I have heard these artists all together, though I have listened to performances of Leonhardt, Kujiken (a real favoutie actually), and Bruggen (live with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, I think), and they were or are all splendid, though naturally they all are different to some degree. I actually have live radio recordings of Kujiken, which I prefer to the gramophone records, even if they are not quite the technically perfect exmples the studio allows for. In the studio, there is an issue with the Second Concerto, as I remember it, because he employs a horn rather than trumpet. This idea emerged when Thurston Dart made records of them. It is distinctly odd. The live performances use a proper Baroque trumpet, though it is a treacherous instrument to play! One of music's high-wire acts if ever. I actually prefer the effect of the valved High Bach Trumpet, which emerged in the Thirties (if not earlier?) and enabled the music to be played at its intended pitch, but with a greater degree of technical security. The player can start to be musical with it, rather than merely being worried about how to get the notes out.
It is a shame about the HM LInde set being unavailable, but Pinnock's set is fine, and coreect, and unexagerated.
Youu recorde cartainly containa stellar list of players! I bet they make a wonderful combination.
All the best frem Fredrik
Posted on: 27 February 2006 by Guido Fawkes
quote:Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dear Rotf,
I am not sure if I have heard these artists all together, though I have listened to performances of Leonhardt, Kujiken (a real favoutie actually), and Bruggen (live with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, I think), and they were or are all splendid, though naturally they all are different to some degree. I actually have live radio recordings of Kujiken, which I prefer to the gramophone records, even if they are not quite the technically perfect exmples the studio allows for. In the studio, there is an issue with the Second Concerto, as I remember it, because he employs a horn rather than trumpet. This idea emerged when Thurston Dart made records of them. It is distinctly odd. The live performances use a proper Baroque trumpet, though it is a treacherous instrument to play! One of music's high-wire acts if ever. I actually prefer the effect of the valved High Bach Trumpet, which emerged in the Thirties (if not earlier?) and enabled the music to be played at its intended pitch, but with a greater degree of technical security. The player can start to be musical with it, rather than merely being worried about how to get the notes out.
It is a shame about the HM LInde set being unavailable, but Pinnock's set is fine, and coreect, and unexagerated.
Youu recorde cartainly containa stellar list of players! I bet they make a wonderful combination.
All the best frem Fredrik
Hi Fredrik
Thank you for your kind reply. Claude Rippas plays, what the accompanying booklet describes as, Baroque Trumpet. In fact every instrument is prefixed by the word Baroque, except for Anthony Woodrow's Violin and Bob van Asperen's Cembalo. On the First Concerto, Ab Koster and Jos Konings are listed as playing Natural Horns.
The version I have is the only one I have really listened to, so my thoughts are quite simplistic in that I just think. "Do I like this?" and I answer "Yes" and continue listening, but it is very interesting to gain a greater insight into the performance and I thank you for your valuable input (this forum certainly opens my eyes and ears). I am now very curious to hear the difference between the valved High Bach Trumpet and the horn.
Best regards, Rotf
Posted on: 27 February 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Rotf,
The valved instrument is to be heard (in a recording currently available) on the Busch set, recorded by EMI in 1935, and out on Pearl now.
All the best from Fredrik
PS: Th e Times' Music critic refered to the actual public performances with this trumpet as the most Brilliant trumpet playing ever heard in London or something to that effect! Not bad at a time when mostly critics showed little excitement over anything.
The valved instrument is to be heard (in a recording currently available) on the Busch set, recorded by EMI in 1935, and out on Pearl now.
All the best from Fredrik
PS: Th e Times' Music critic refered to the actual public performances with this trumpet as the most Brilliant trumpet playing ever heard in London or something to that effect! Not bad at a time when mostly critics showed little excitement over anything.
Posted on: 28 February 2006 by Earwicker
Tam,
Regarding the Beethoven Quartets - I've seen the Lindsays twice live and listened to many of their recordings, and I still don't know what people see in them! They can sometimes make for an exciting listen live, but their highly praised recording of my beloved C sharp minor for eg is the work of amateurs! It's too slow, out of tune, dull-sounding etc etc. So I just don't get it, as they say in America. There seems to be a strand of critical opinion even today that confuses duff playing with profundity. Some duff playing CAN be musically profound in some cases...! I was listening to the Lindsays play some Haydn qaurtets on the radio a while back, and it was just crude, third rate stuff.
Th Alban Berg Quartet are have made good central recordings of the Beethovens including a live set; the studio set conatins cheery birdsong in the background, especially in the Razumovsky Qurtets - bane or boon is up to you! Personally I find it rather quaint.
The Italian quartet are dated but still very good, not helped by rather close recordings than can sound aggressive. It's imaginative, highly accomplished playing though.
If you don't mind paying full price, the new recordings by the Takacs Quartet are stunning. I've just been listening to their survey of the late qurtets with growing admiration.
EW
Regarding the Beethoven Quartets - I've seen the Lindsays twice live and listened to many of their recordings, and I still don't know what people see in them! They can sometimes make for an exciting listen live, but their highly praised recording of my beloved C sharp minor for eg is the work of amateurs! It's too slow, out of tune, dull-sounding etc etc. So I just don't get it, as they say in America. There seems to be a strand of critical opinion even today that confuses duff playing with profundity. Some duff playing CAN be musically profound in some cases...! I was listening to the Lindsays play some Haydn qaurtets on the radio a while back, and it was just crude, third rate stuff.
Th Alban Berg Quartet are have made good central recordings of the Beethovens including a live set; the studio set conatins cheery birdsong in the background, especially in the Razumovsky Qurtets - bane or boon is up to you! Personally I find it rather quaint.
The Italian quartet are dated but still very good, not helped by rather close recordings than can sound aggressive. It's imaginative, highly accomplished playing though.
If you don't mind paying full price, the new recordings by the Takacs Quartet are stunning. I've just been listening to their survey of the late qurtets with growing admiration.
EW
Posted on: 28 February 2006 by Tam
EW,
Fair enough - I can see why some people don't get on with the Lindsays. I agree about the Takacs QT (though I only have the 'late' volume, which is stunning - and in several places much better than than the Lindays' readings).
That said, I was very impressed when I saw them live last year (probably the last time I shall get the opportunity now they've retired).
regards, Tam
Fair enough - I can see why some people don't get on with the Lindsays. I agree about the Takacs QT (though I only have the 'late' volume, which is stunning - and in several places much better than than the Lindays' readings).
That said, I was very impressed when I saw them live last year (probably the last time I shall get the opportunity now they've retired).
regards, Tam