best route into naim

Andrew I would say stretch to the 112-150. At a later date you could add a flatcap, or a second hand hi-cap.

Getting a nait would be cheaper, but then you would be looking at a power amp and a cap in the future, starting at 112-150 would get rid of one step in the ladder.

as for speakers, this is a personal thing and demoing will be the only answer. I had Credos with a 92/90 (older entry loevel kit) and the Credos functioned well.

The intro2 could be seen as a credo so I believe they would work well, however its for you to decide.

Either way you will need to face the fact that once you start you might not be able to stop, but don't worry I won't tell your better half!

I'm going to partly disagree with Gary on this. The Nait5 is a very capable amp and if you're upgrading from a fairly modest system, it will probably keep you smiling for some time.
I'd spend the money on the FlatCap2 which can power both the CD5 and the Nait pre-amp stage to give considerable further improvement to both.
You can add a 150 power later using the Nait as a pre-amp or upgrade further up the range.
Audition the variations with your dealer though and make your mind up then - its the only way!
I do agree with Gary about speakers - they're very much a matter of personal taste, but be sure to audition them at home before deciding.

David

Actually, my plan is to buy a CD5 and speakers in addition to the amp (whether nait or pre/power). I've prepared the wife that it will cost between £2500-£3000 so going much more than that will be difficult. The way I figure it, CD5 and decent speakers is around £2K leaving around £1K for the amp.

- Andrew

Oh yeah, and obviously I haven't told my wife that 3K is just the beginning...

DrJ has a good point, as its your first venture into the Naim world a good dealer can give you a great deal of advice and assistance and is very much worth cultivating. Most Naim dealers are very good and very helpful with dems etc. When you've developed some familiarity with the range s-hand buys become a useful option.

David

Hmmm, but a lot of dealers also have some ex-dem/2nd hand kit anyway, particularly as the new range is selling so well. I would urge you not to discount the outgoing models since they are good value currently. For example, for £3k you could get a CD5/Nait5/Naim Intro2 system which will be very nice indeed and very capable. However, you could possibly find other options too. This will depend on your dealer so you will have to be led by him.

As to your other question about speakers, there are many makes about that offer different strengths. Your dealer will guide you through the options he has. If you're not happy with what's on offer you should walk away and find another dealer who can offer you different options. I find Dynaudios a good combination provided they're matched to a suitable Naim amp. In your case, you'd be looking at entry level Dynaudios such as Audience 42's or 52's. Other makes that work well include Totem, Linn and Rega. Each has its strengths and each its weaknesses. You should certainly listen to the Naim speakers since then you'll have a very definite appreciateion of where Naim are coming from and base your listening experiences around that. Personally, I am not a fan of the current B&W CDM range as I feel its strengths don't meet with those of Naim systems. That said, you may like them so have a listen.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

With speakers, keep in mind that they differ in efficiency - you will know this in that you will have to turn the volume knob up higher to get the same volume from less-efficient speakers. Since you are not likely to be buying a mega-powerful amp anytime soon, try to avoid speakers that really need more than than the power you can afford to sing.

That said, the Nait 5 or 112/150 combination is more powerful, in real-world driving speakers terms, than the wattage ratings would suggest. That said, B&W and Dynaudio, for example, present more difficult loads to the amplifier and may not be happy on the end of a Nait or 150.

Also, speakers differ in their ability to be satisfying at lower volume levels. If you do much of this kind of listening (say, the TV is routed through the hi-fi), it is something to listen for.

And NACA 5 speaker wire is all-but-mandatory with any Naim amplifier, so budget for it if the dealer won't toss it in for free as part of your system purchase.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Plenty of good advice here, thanks guys!

Well, I'm off on holiday this weekend so when I come back I'll hit the dealers with a vengance...any one know any particularly good friendly ones in London preferably with a good range of second-hand naim kit and who wouldn't mind me hanging around for ages - and ideally do interest free credit in case I get carried away ? A friend of mine recommends Audio-T and Cornflake (but then again he also reckons I should buy Musical Fidelity).

Cheers,

Andrew

Ekk, if you like MF you ain't gonna like naim.

Gary, I didn't say I liked MF I said my friend did and kept on about it all the time. Hence my concern about his dealer recommendations!

Thanks Alex,

I'm in Camden so Cornflake is easiest for me but work in Moorgate so Grahams is easy, too.

Cheers,

Andrew

Woody

I'm off to Hi-Fi Experience (Tottenham Court Road) tomorrow for a demo. I'll let you know what I think. Feedback from any demo you have would also be useful. As a newbee I can see that dealer selection seems to be as important as the kit.

Hooray, another variable

Seth
Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!

My two penneth....

There is a big gap between the 5 series amps and the classic/reference stuff.

If you want to buy new then go for a Nait 5 and CD5, you can always add a Flatcap2 latter which will work well with the CD5 if you decide to get on the true reference series stuff. When I heard the 112 frankly it bombed.

On the other hand second hand gear is very good value. If you don't need the latest styling then there are bargains to be had.

JB

Let me know how it went.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maxi Me:
Woody

I'm off to Hi-Fi Experience (Tottenham Court Road) tomorrow for a demo. I'll let you know what I think. Feedback from any demo you have would also be useful. As a newbee I can see that dealer selection seems to be as important as the kit.

Hooray, another variable

Seth
Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!

---

The Demo

Woody,

Had the demo yesterday and after initial teething problems it went well. Spent 2 hours listening up through the 5 series from CD5, Nait 5 through adding Flatcap 2 to splitting out to NAC112/NAP150. All through Intros. I then I had a quick listen to a Cyrus system (hastily set up and from cold unfortunately)

I thought the Flatcap2 was a very worthwhile step up and the pre/power split also good, if not so dramatic. I liked the Cyrus, even at the disadvantage it had been placed and I will be going back for an extended head to head between the two.

Enjoy going to listen with your own ears!

Seth
Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!

Hi MaxiMe,
Keep up the posting on yout auditioning progress. It's really interesting reading.

I envy you folks living in the UK (and the USA) having the good fortune of accessibility to dealerships and demos.

I'm living and working in Vietnam and there are no dealers here. I have pretty much decided on Naim CDX2/202/200 speakers????. I've had to do this from reeading and from memories of enjoying listening to a friends Naim system 10 year ago.

I would have loved the luxury of demmoing a Cyrus sytem a Linn system and Naim CD5 vs CDX2.
That would have been great.

Cheers,

How much does a 202 and a 200 cost in Vietnam?
What type of Naim system do you have now?
How do you know you want a cdx2 or a 202/200? I am just curious how you learned about naim. I love hearing other people's stories.

take care,

Hi andachoke,
My Story.....

There are no dealers in Vietnam so I will have to buy in Singapore and hand carry the bits back. As far I can fgure the prices in Singpore are "UK Retail minus 15% then there is another 3% refund at the airport when you take the items out." So I think that makes the 202 about SGD1,815 (USD1,019)and the 200 about SGD1,775 (USD997)

Deciding what to buy (electronics) without auditioning is pretty easy for me. Many years ago when I set off backpacking around the world, apart from the travel, my only goal in life was to get to London and buy a Linn LP12 - not available in New Zealand at the time, a Naim Pre and 250 Power amp and Linn SARA speakers. (When auditioning the system in London, I actually ended up buying a Tresham amp as it to me it sounded faste, more powerful and ... just better. Although it was half the cost of the Naim, that was not a consideration as I really wanted to like the Naim better. Ultimately I ended up with an all Linn Aktive PMS Isobarik system which followed me all over the world. England, New Zealand twice and Sweden twice.(I Love Isobariks _ SARA's, SARA 9's or DMS/PMS)
Due to cosmic events in the rich tapestry of life such as marriage - divorce etc, I no longer have the Linn system. It would be insensitive and shallow I guess, to say I miss the Linn system more than the wife - so I won't say that. I'm not an insensitive, shallow person ..... it amazing what the passage of time can do.

At the same time (1982) a Dentist friend of mine who had also travelled from New Zealand for much the same reason bought the Linn LP12/SARA's/Naim amps combintaion ... which he still has 20 plus years later!!!! ... and it still sound fantastic.

I'd be happy with either a Linn or Naim system but I think Linn lost their way with speaker design years ago when they stopped making the Isobarik loaded speakers. (I have not yet hear Ninkas and the new top o' the range thingy) I still love the Aktive "sound" so I may go listen to Aktive Ninkas ... just before I go to hand over my cash to Mr Naim.

My sense of "what is right in music" is probably very different than most. I spent all my youth up till 32 years old, playing in pub bands (I also used to play the cello ... but not in pub bands) So to me. the only correct sound is what I used to hear on stage .. a very immediate, in-your-face sound with all the bite and slam that a good guitar and or bass and amp makes when you're standing right next to it.

Same for classical music, I couldn't give a toss about hearing the ambience of the particular concert hall (Harry Pearson - you're a banana) I just want to feel the excitement of the instrument right next to me ... the more close miked a string quartet is miked .. the better I like it.

I know the drive that Naim and Linn electronics can impart to music so I have no qualms about limiting my selection ..... it the speakers that are putting me through hoops at the moment. I am so out of date with present models ... but I know what I like. As I've got older I hopeful have got more "balanced" and would not spend the kind of money I did on the Linn system of yesteryear .... but I will spend quite a bit to get as close to that sound as I can .... I just don't know yeat what "quite a bit is"

That's my story andachoke.

Cheers.

Whoops achandoke .... a thousand apologies for the previous post. I had put a wrong formula in my Pocket PC.
Singapore price for a 202 should be somewhere around $3,172 (USD1,782) and the 200 SGD 3104 (USD1,743). .... was it a Freudian slip, wishful thinking or just abysmal maths?
I won't know exact prices till I get down there.

JohnMak,
Just a minor correction. I think you will get 4% back for Goods and Services Tax when you leave Singapore.

Right,

Went to Audio-T in W.Hampstead. Listened to CD5, NAIT5, FC2 and Dynaudio Contour 1.1 speakers. I've listened to loads over the past few months and this system blew away everything I'd heard up to then. I know I could probably do better by going s/h but this will last me for a while. Even the missus had a huge smile on her face after a few seconds and is now a convert

Didn't get to hear intro2 which I'll be checking out next week (when I order the stuff).

For those who are interested, CDs taken were:

- Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Session"
- Led Zep II
- Cat Stephens Remembered
- free Naim CD on front of HiFi News last month