Lead shot in stand bases

Posted by: nodrog on 18 December 2001

Just one question: Who in this forum has tried this and what were the sonic benefits. If anyone has direct experience of Kan II stands I would appreciate input.

Thanks,
Peter

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Alex S.

I think I had Kan II Stands, I certainly had Kan something stands for both Kans and for AE1s. They are an open design which did not seem to benefit Kans by being mass loaded. They were rubbish for AE1s which prefer as mass-loaded a stand as you can find. I also had granite stands with N805s, and these sounded progressively worse (horrible bass lumpiness) the more I filled them (with lead shot and/or sand).

So, in other words, I have found no hard and fast rules - try it and see what happens.

Alex

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Peter Stockwell

Alex,

Do you still have the 805s, if you do how do you have them set up ?

Peter

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Alex S.

Call me stupid but I finally got these speakers sounding superb and then promptly sold them! I did this mainly so that I can move round my listening room and occasionally do some work. The 805s had me rooted to a very small spot.

You must thank Lance from Florida for part of what I'm going to tell you but IMHO N805s only really sing in the following set-up:

They must be on Hne Cableway Granite Stands into which no lead or sand has been poured.

The speaker spikes to floor should be replaced with Nordost Pulsar Points and the same points (3 of them) should sit on the top plate and support the speakers. They are further improved by siting the stands on a pair of Mana SoundBases (but by then the tweeters are getting a bit high).

Dnm speaker cable helps tighten the bass and sweeten the treble (the midrange needs no help since its superb already).

Although they are easy to drive they like a lot of current!

All grilles, including those for the tweeters, should be removed.

They must be exactly 86 inches apart (tweeter to tweeter) and your left and right ears must be 86 inches exactly from the left and right tweeter. I'm not joking!

If this arrangement gets you at least 3 metres from the rear wall and 2.5 metres away from side walls, so much the better.

Try it. You will be amazed!

Alex

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Tony L

quote:
If anyone has direct experience of Kan II stands I would appreciate input.

There is a school of thought that Kan II stands benefit from having the bottom section filled, though not the uprights. I plan to do this at some point to find out. Should lower the centre of gravity a little which would probably be a good thing.

Tony.

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Greg Beatty

Is basically the conclusion I came to after posting and getting replies on various fora. Got stuff where people were reporting conflicting results with same speakers/stands. May be room/floor dependent.

Also got quite a few replies stating that shot mixed with salt crystals or sand was better than shot alone. Something to do with filling the air space between the shot balls. I'm using about 60 lbs of shot per speaker at the moment.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Mike Sae

Alex,

quote:
805s had me rooted to a very small spot. . . . They must be exactly 86 inches apart (tweeter to tweeter) and your left and right ears must be 86 inches exactly from the left and right tweeter. I'm not joking!

This is room dependant, surely...

That N805 can't be any good, if they need to meet 7 specific criteria to sing, 6 of which could only be found by accident. Even then, they make you a prisioner of your own chair.

Cheers,

Mike S

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

quote:
There is a school of thought that Kan II stands benefit from having the bottom section filled, though not the uprights

I'm in that school - it was a Malcolm Steward tip from years of experience.

It costs little to try, aids stability dramtically, yet doesn't couple a large mass to the speaker (a good thing).

Try it and see.

Andy.

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Alex S.

Its room dependent in that you should construct the 86" triangle and still have enough room left to get the 805s far enough away from the walls.

Point 8 BTW is that you have to sell your Naim amps and buy dynavectors instead!

So perhaps I am well shot of them!

Alex

PS For Peter's sake I should add that I only consider the granite and the 86" to be crucial factors for success.

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Ron The Mon

I say without hesitation that Kans on Kan stands sound worse with shot in them(regardless of where in the stand the shot's placed).
I was working at a Linn/Naim shop at the time Steward and others recommended this tweak. The problem most people have with this tweak is that there is no direct A/B comparison. I heard customers brag about all kinds of stand mods they did and when they'd bring them into the shop to compare against the stock Kan stands, all were inferior. I always had an open mind and was eager to try a good tweak, but the shot thing doesn't work. As mentioned above it may have different results with different stands or speakers. At the shop we had three dedicated single-speaker dem rooms, with both concrete and wood floors, with the same results.
For those of you who do have shot in your stands, take them to a dealer and do an A/B demo. It will be a free tweak to dump the shot out!
Remember that it takes time to install the shot and during that long time frame your disposition could change, the mains could improve, your ear sensitivity will heighten, equipment warms-up, etc.

Ron The Mon
(Still recommending a good wall-mount shelf for Kans)

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Rockingdoc

I think lead shot improves most stands, but am finding it difficult to source at a sesible price. At present I use a diving shop, but they are very expensive. Any ideas?

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Alex S.

Rockingdoc,

a) Ask Frank Rizzo (could be a bit flat)

b) Ask Mick Parry (can contain feathers, small bones, bits of wood, leaves)

Alex

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by garyi

Although slightly lower tech I used atacama SE24 stands with some stand mounts. Before I filled them with sand (in this case) I could here the music in the stands, (by sticking my ear to um) kind of higher pitched and echoey,

After inserting the sand that sound stopped completly.

I would assertain from this that without the sand the stands were resonating the sound, possibly detrimentaly, the inclusion of sand stopped this.

Thats all I assertained I am afraid because to my ears there was little difference in the sound from the speakers.

snigger

Not much help eh?

Posted on: 20 December 2001 by bob atherton

Lead can be bought as a swarf/waste product from lead shot works. It is a hell of a lot cheaper than shot. I must agree with Ron on this one though. When Linn were making their Kan II stands they still had a huge amount of integrity & credibility IMHO. If lead improved the stand I think they would have used it.

Bob.

Posted on: 20 December 2001 by Tony L

quote:
I must agree with Ron on this one though. When Linn were making their Kan II stands they still had a huge amount of integrity & credibility IMHO. If lead improved the stand I think they would have used it.

Whilst we are on the subject of Kan II stands, has anyone tried standing the stands on anything?

I have one of those real wood laminate floors that are in just about every recent apartment at the moment. It is very flat, but is obviously quite thin and hollow, and the Kan stands really stick a lot of energy into it. As an experiment I tried a inch thick piece of MDF Blu-Tac'd to the floor under each stand for a short while. This dramatically reduced the amount of energy hitting the floor, and as a result reduced some slight tonal coloration in the mid, but it sapped some life out of the music so I removed them. I'm thinking that a harder material may work - concrete, marble, granite etc. Anyone tried it?

Tony.

Posted on: 20 December 2001 by nodrog

Thanks for your replies everyone. Am not sure what to make of them without trying it for myself. I'll try it soon. This will involve a trip to Akihabara followed by a hard slog back home with a rucksack full of shot and then a lie down, probably.

When I was using my Kans with the stands back home I used crosshead screws in the (fairly solid) wooden floor to bed the points into. Have you tried this? I wasn't too worried about my floor at that time, though.

Peter

Posted on: 20 December 2001 by Tony L

quote:
When I was using my Kans with the stands back home I used crosshead screws in the (fairly solid) wooden floor to bed the points into. Have you tried this? I wasn't too worried about my floor at that time, though.

I have tried this with many different speakers and in many rooms in the past. My view is that if it improves matters then something else is probably wrong. The screws have a effect of tightening and brightening, but they tip the tempo to far forward and make Kans in particular sound as if they are rushing the music - play something slow and it does not sound correctly slow. Kans are light enough to not sink into the floor. I did definitely prefer my Bariks on screws, but I was using them in a very small room and anything that tightened the bass up was most welcome. Dave C has certainly got Bariks to work really well off screws.

The concrete / marble thing sounds interesting. Someone round here (can't remember who) has some under their IBLs, and I remember hearing Sonus Faber Grand Pianos both on and off their concrete (I think) plinths, and the difference was massive and completely beneficial.

Tony.