LP12 + Mana or Fraim

Paul

This one has been done quite a few times and you are going to get mixed messages but to try and summarise in a reasonably accurate and impartial way....

Most people who have tried Mana with an LP12 think it's the one to go for although a small proportion have tried it and gone back to something else. Mana with electronics is a more confused issue.

Some people have tried Fraim with an LP12 and preferred it to Mana but not many afaict.

I believe there is a significant difference in the performance of an empty Fraim (better) and a loaded Fraim (worse) with the LP12.

Mana is harder to set up than Fraim and can sound poor if badly done (but it's not that difficult to get right).

Moving your LP12 upsets it for a while and stands take hours (Fraim) or days (Mana) to settle. To form any meaningful conclusion takes several days with each combination.

Variation in environment, equipment, rooms, setup and preference make it difficult to extrapolate from other peoples experiences.

From the (numerous) comments I've seen I would say that as a random and unknown (to me) subject you are statistically more likely to prefer Mana under an LP12 irrespective of your preference for stands. But you might not.

Fwiw I have my electronics on a Fraim and TT on Mana (started at phase 4, went to 7, now on 6 for logistic rather than sonic reasons).

I've tried my TT on a loaded Fraim but not on an empty one (impractical for me) and used to have it on sound org. This is in a fairly difficult room with carpeted suspended wooden floors, bay window, chimney breast etc.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Steve

I think the general message that will come through is that the LP12 performs best on its own dedicated stand or wall shelf almost, but not quite, independent of brand.

Cheers,

Steve:

Thanks for your input. I know that Mana and Fraim have been discussed endlessly but I am hoping to learn more from the experiences of those (such as yourself) who have tried their LP12 with a Fraim (which has not had as many postings IIRC). So far in the poll, there does not seem to be many (if any) using a dedicated Fraim for their LP12.

Paul

PS. Is the Mana website no longer functioning? Anyone know? I am unable to make a connection.

[This message was edited by Paul B on SUNDAY 14 September 2003 at 15:17.]

Hi Paul

You're most welcome.
The Mana site is there at the moment: www.mana.co.uk
The forum url is: http://manaforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic

If you are going to try Mana I would recommend a reference table (table + one other level aka phase 2) as a minimum. I started off with phase 4 and found the results surprisingly good (understatement).

I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago and made an initial purchase second hand on the basis that if I didn't like it I could sell it on readily.

The higher phases tend to amplify foot fall problems - I was ok on 4 but treading very gingerly on 7 (not an issue if you have concrete floors). Since then I have dropped down to 6 and strengthened the floor so it's not really a problem for me now.

If you have a good relationship with a dealer they may be willing to lend you a Fraim but unless you have several empty levels the end result may be a little low for practical purposes.

Best of luck

Regards
Steve

One important aspect I have found is that the LP12 being anywhere near the electronics is quite deleterious.

This precludes anything other than a dedicated support for my system.

I have recently put my LP12 onto a StarBase rack with three nut/ball bearings and glass (it's the rack that used to be under my CDP, pre Fraim). The LP12 took a surprisingly big leap forward in performance.

I would suspect that a dedicated Fraim would be superb (and also very expensive).

Didn't one of the NANA guys report on this about a year ago? Anyone?

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Paul
I recently changed my Mana rack for a Fraim - I had Hutter in between but thats another story. I managed to compare LP12 on Mana and Fraim and it is clear to me that the Fraim is a major step in every way compared to the other stands. Dynamic range, smoothness, detail are signficantly better. I did not think it would be such a change but there you go. The Hutter was equal to the Mana in some ways but I felt offered a significant more balanced presentation - it essentially had more bass, but was a bit overblown but nice. But the Fraim is something else - not cheap but does offer a great performance.

With regards to the Mana I have had my LP12 on Phase 5, 4, 2 and 1 and ended up preferring Phase 1. The bass become leaner and tigheter as you go up the phases, but the detail improves.

The Hutter and the Fraim were significantly better though, but ultimately it is upto you to do the dem and decide for yourself.

Just my experiences in my room/system and I don't really want to become a stand evangelist - I've owned most of them and know what I prefer.

regards

Dev

[This message was edited by Dev B on TUESDAY 16 September 2003 at 23:02.]

Dev:

check your PT's.

Understandable when different stands are offering different virtues.

However I'm confident that Dev has come to a final solution in deciding on a stand that is specifically designed for his equipment.

I would be interested in reading Dev's thoughts on Hutter, IMHO they're better looking and smaller than the Fraim and offer an excellent performance (though may not be quite as good as the Fraim).

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Jamie

Sounds like Dev has made his mind up to me.

Does anyone know any more details about this, the D-Wave modular system from Neat's Derek Gilligan?

Dev

To clarify - I assume that was that an empty Fraim? and how many levels?

Cheers
Steve