What Turntable?

In many people's eyes an LP12 is the last word in turntables. I've had mine for nearly 20 years now and wouldn't change to another turntable (other than a higher spec LP12) in the same way I wouldn't change my amplifiers other than to a higher spec Naim amp.

Any LP12 should easily outperform a CDX. According to many here, they go out of tune easily though (my personal view is that is because they fiddle with them!).

Usual places to look are Loot and Ebay, price will vary a lot depending on age, arm (Basik, Ittok, Ekos or Aro in ascending order) and power supply (Valhalla, Lingo or Armageddon). Factor in the cost of a service (c. £100-£150), new cartridge (moving magnet cartridges are not too expensive, moving coil can be very expensive but sound much better), something to put it on (stands make a huge difference to a TT, the usual suspects M***, Fraim, QS, Hutter, Sound Org etc. etc. all have their advocates) and a stageline (? not sure whether you'll need this between your TT and pre-amp, depends on the pre-amps inputs).

Hope this helps.

Nick

I've been using an LP12 for over 14 years. Although it's nowhere near top flight (no Lingo, ttok arm, etc) it still beats any CD source I've heard, including the CD5.

A basic LP12 will cost about £1,200 I think. If you go for a fully Lingo-ed LP12 you're taliing about £1,800 or so and you need an arm and cartidge, so you'll be spending upwards of £2.5K.

But you can get LP12s pretty cheaply on auction sites like E-Bay. They can be thoroughly serviced for £100 or so.

The best thing is to take a few of your favourite LPs (and a few that you used to like but have become bored of) to a dealer and audition an LP12.

I reckon you'll be impressed

Kevin

...There's a nice looking LP12/Ittok combo on eBay at the moment

I have to disagree about the LP12.

My advice would be to go and listen to a Roksan Xerxes X.

In an A/B comparison the Xerxes sounded clearer and fuller and I ended up purchasing one!!

Regards

NB

Hi Nick

I'll have to agree with NB on the new Roksan Xerxes X. It really depends on your budget. If fund is permitting audition the Xerxes X (off course with Aro). I've heard the LP12 vs CDS2 on a 52 and active DBL (3x500).. everyone can conclude that the LP12 sounded slower than the CDS2. You wouldn't hear it on a lesser set up. Xerxes X delivered PRAT (on the same system) that we all love our Naim gears for.

More recently a 552/500, passive DBL, CDS2 and Xerxes X... reinforced that the Xerxes X is indeed a better TT. The plus is that you can play 33 & 45s at a press of a button on the power supply.

The difficulty is to find a used Xerxes X if you decide on it.

Regards
Roland

Its nice to hear that someone has had the same experience with Turntables. I always thought I was listening through wool when I was listening to the Lp12. The Xerxes just opens everything out and to me it is better in every department.

Agreeing that the Xerxes X is a fine turntable, have you heard the Roksan TMS with Artemiz and Shiraz. Its in a different league altogether.

I had the pleasure of hearing one at the Heathrow hi-fi show many years ago and to me its the best sound I have ever heard from Vinyl.

Regards

NB

How much would I have to spend and what would I have to get in order to match (or better) the sound of the CDX?

My 17 year olp Rega Planar 3 / RB 300 / Nagaoka MP50 sounds better than any CD player I've heard at any price - it's just a matter of medium. LP's are intrinsically better than CDs.

I guess CD's main advantage is convenience - The Planer 3 is almost that. No-hassle quality sound every day. Now where can I find a P25?

Have a look on Loot.Should be able to get a Rega 2 for under a ton.This will sound better than any cd player.

Cheers,
Paul.

NB

Yes, I do agree that the TMS is a better TT than a Xerxes X. Have heard TMS on several occasion and more recently a TMS II. Both with Aro arms. The bounce and accuracy the TT gave... top notch. after listening to the TMS/TMS II I couldn't listen to the CDS2... it was that obvious.

Having said that I still love my CDS1. I'll use it till the transport gives way before I upgrade to CDS2 (if it's still available then)

Regards

Roland et al--

Two comments--

I owned a maxed out Xerxes X for about a year. Had a LP12 with all the Linn bits prior to that. Now have a LP12 with all the Naim bits--just missing a Supercap for the Prefix. While the Xerxes X is a very good turntable, and certainly a worthy alternative to an LP12, I think to say it is unquestionably better all around is a bit much. Some people might prefer it to an LP12, some might prefer the LP12, as I do. The biggest weakness in the Xerxes X relative to the LP12 is a lack of soul/expressiveness/choose your term.

Second--to suggest that the differences between a Xerxes X and LP12 can't be heard on anything less than a 52/500 etc setup is simply ludicrous--the differences are clearly audible throught a Nait driving Kans. Having heard both TT setups through both types of systems, and the differences are clearly audible in both--admittedly to a greater degree through a 52/500 system.

Best Regards,

Bob Edwards

...why more people in the uk don't go for an SME10. I can understand the dilemma in the US, but in the UK the price is about the same or less than the LP12+PS+arm new, and there are no setup or support worries, so you could subtract the price of the stand. Apart from the engineering being way better, every aspect of the sound and music is in a different league, and it is really enjoyable to use (as is a rega P3). IMO with the sonic priorities commonly stated on this forum, the 10 even beats the 30 which is 4 or 5 times the price!

Quote:-

Second--to suggest that the differences between a Xerxes X and LP12 can't be heard on anything less than a 52/500 etc setup is simply ludicrous.
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I agree with you entirely, when I did my demonstration I was using a 42-5/110 and I could clearly hear the difference between the Roksan and the Linn.

I also agree that a better amplifier will highlite more of a difference between the two players.

I must admit that when I heard the Linn and the Roksan together, the differences where quite apparent and the Roksan was more to my liking. I appreciate that it is a matter of taste and everyone's taste is different.

What always amased me is how many people agree that the Roksan is clearly a better player but end up buying a Linn purely because the media and public opinion insists that everyone must own a linn. I have always wondered why?


Regards

NB

Best value for money is a used LP12. I paid £250 for mine and it sounds very nice indeed.

Regards
Steve

I can't believe anyone would buy a product s/he thinks is inferior - unless the 'inferiority' refers only to aparticular aspect of the product.

For example, I don't own a 52, even though it is much better than what I have - I can't afford a 52.

I might prefer the sound of tubes, but I don't want the hassle of owning tubes.

I might prefer Naim sound but live in an area with unreliable power - I wouldn't get the Naim sound at home because it would rarely be warmed up.

I might prefer the sound of a properly operating Roksan but be scared off by the fact that on some models the plinth sags.

Phil
Heard a Roksan, prefer an LP12

Nick,
This is the "little brother" of the LP 12 and might be a good and not too expensive solution for you. I am very satisfied with mine and the sound quality (using a MC cartridge) is about equal to my CD2 (predecessor of CDX).
Enjoy it

Christian

NB said

"What always amased me is how many people agree that the Roksan is clearly a better player but end up buying a Linn purely because the media and public opinion insists that everyone must own a linn. I have always wondered why?"

Is that true? It seems to me that these days the LP12 has at least as many detractors as it has fans.

It may be that "objectively" (a hi-fi word methinks) the Xerxes and other Roksan (and other manufacturers') T/Ts are "better" than the LP12, but I still haven't heard any source that conveys music so well, which communicates passion and attack and rhythm and melody and all the other things we listen to music for.

The LP12 has its faults, but it's still the closest to perfection in an imperfect world. This may be why it has been top of the tree for 30 years. Could it also be why it's perhaps the single most famous bit of hi-fi kit in the world?

Hi chaps,

Very interesting thread developing hear I feel, even some of you recommending so 'real TT's' quite refreshing to see .
Although I must say the only way in analogue reproduction I feel is Clear, Clear Audio Master Reference a 'Genuine TT' in every sense of the word' "my CDS beats in just", Humm I feel you need to get out more sirs, once hearing this excellent deck, then you will be consigning your CDP's to the trash can.

Kind Regards David

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

I've got a CDX and recently bought a Project RPM9. I wouldn't say one sounds better than the other and I doubt you could irrespective of the TT in question whilst keeping costs vaguely similar. The delivery is different.

As for the myth of the LP12, compare it to other stuff before buying

quote:

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Originally posted by bornwina:

As for the myth of the LP12, compare it to other stuff before buying

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Top remark 'Bornwina' I agree totaly, and surfice to say never a truer word spoken on the subject.
Once heard, soon forgotten next TT please.


Kind regards David

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

Does anyone have any good recomendations for cartridges to sit on the end of a Roksan/Artemiz set up?

Regards

NB

real food for thought, but I think it's going to be hard to resist the LP12 myth!. By the way has anyone heard that gorgeous looking 500gbp deck that won an award in this month's Hifi Choice?. (sorry, but the name escapes me at the moment.

nick

I'm also on the look for a new cartridge for Xerxes/Artemiz, I have used ATOC7 in the past but am currently enjoying an AT95E.

I'm quite tempted to go for a Corus Black (Shiraz is a bit out of my price range...) - does anyone here have any experience of this one? -NB?
The Linn Adikt looks quite sexy - and apparently is also based on the Goldring 1042 (although don't quote me on that one!)

I currently have an Audio technica 100 super on my Roksan.

I have heard the shiraz and it is absolutely wonderful but a bit out of my price range at the moment. The chorus Black is a good cheap cartridge but nothing special!!

Regards

NB

I'm not familiar with the Audio Technica 100 super - what price is that?

You're obviously after something a little better than the £150-200 mark I'm looking at - would you have any recommendations in this price range other than Corus Black/Goldring 1042 from your own experience?

Sorry to answer your question with a question(!)
I haven't much experience with anything above the ATOC7.

The Audio Technica was about £125 and I would highly recommend it. I havn't really heard any other cartridges around the same price range appart from the Chorus which I was not impressed with.

I am looking for something in the region of £500 to £1,000 range possibly a Lyra or something similar.

Regards

NB