Classical recommendations for a heathen

Dear Friend,

You can do no worse than scan the Thread on Mozrt of IanGToo's not far below, for a starting point. Also the various First Concerto, First Symphony, First Classical Piano Pices Threads of mine make a useful basis for thought and further discussion!

Look at Ian's Thread first!

All the best from Fredrik

The Brahms violin concerto has got many people into classical, and unlike many pieces, it has the scope and depth to stay with you for a lifetime. You'll probably go through a 19th century Russian phase if you make the effort, but speaking from personal experience, you'll want to go Brahms, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, then on to Bartok et al, and it will endure.

I think the Brahms did it for Steven Hawking too so you'll be in good company; 15 years down the line, it still does it for me anyway. It's quality stuff that's as accessible as it is profound and elite. Well recorded versions by Szerygn and Grumiaux can be had at budget price, as can the classic Heifetz on Naxos label - probably the best on record - if you can tollerate older recordings. Don't be tempted to go for Kennedy's interminable, lugubrious version with Tennstdedt; I know you'll have heard of him, but it's crap.

EW

Heifetz is an extereme answer in the Brahms, but the rest makes sense. Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Heifetz is an extereme answer in the Brahms

True, but where else can that level of clarity, style, grasp, perfection and sheer vision and beauty be found in this music? The same applies to the great man's recording of the Beethoven with the inimitable Toscanini, available on the same CD (Naxos Historical) for £5!!! It is extreme and polarised, I'll grant you, but Heifetz went where no man had been before or has been since, and probably ever will be, in these profound masterpieces.

And the recorded sound actually isn't too bad either - not that it matters!

EW

The later Heifetz - Munch - Boston S.O is far superior to the Toscanini.

Also, two symphonies that hooked me early on are,

Brahms first and Dvorak ninth (New World)

In addition to Fredrik's excellent First Concerto, Symphony, Piano, (and I think there may have been a Choral one too) threads, you might also like to have a look through this one (and in particular my post four up from the bottom of the first page):

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/380...222941996#1222941996

As always, I'd suggest picking up the Mackerras/RLPO Beethoven symphonies (some fantastic music and dirt cheap).

regards, Tam

The Planets Suite - Gustav Holst. Powerful, Dynamic, tuneful, ethereal, impressive.

The four seasons - Vivaldi. Has suffered enormously from over-exposure on TV adverts etc. but it is still a very impressive piece nonethless. It's Fashionable amongst music snobs to scoff at it's popularity but it's got to be on anyone's list of the top 100 classical pieces ever.

Violin Concerto in G minor - Max Bruch. Rollickingly good violin showpiece with orchestra.

If these don't get your juices flowing, nothing will.

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Heifetz is an extereme answer in the Brahms

True, but where else can that level of clarity, style, [Not!]]

EW

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:

[...].

Violin Concerto in G minor - Max Bruch. Rollickingly good violin showpiece with orchestra.

If these don't get your juices flowing, nothing will.

Dear Erik,

The only thing I conducted in public. I'd need to be pissed to admit that. Well we also did Chanson de Matin, first, but it was all at was at twemty minuteas notice, so it was do or dare. The soloist cared less for me after, but merely because I took 'colle parte,' literally. And it got too slow. I soon brought back a good tempo!

Fredrik

Personally, I cannot stand the Bruch concerto. I have only heard it live once (and don't own a single recording), yet listening to that concert I felt I'd heard each bar a million times before - this may be less the fault of the concerto itself and more the fact that it is so overplayed. Didn't Bruch himself get so fed up with people always using it as an audition piece that he issued an 'edict' that it was not to be performed.


Also, I think it would be tough not to like Sibelius's 3rd symphony - especially on the recent Davis LSO live recording.

regards, Tam

Dear Todd,

For once I am going to disagree with you big time. That is too simplistic by half!

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
Personally, I cannot stand the Bruch concerto. I have only heard it live once (and don't own a single recording), yet listening to that concert I felt I'd heard each bar a million times before - this may be less the fault of the concerto itself and more the fact that it is so overplayed. Didn't Bruch himself get so fed up with people always using it as an audition piece that he issued an 'edict' that it was not to be performed.


Also, I think it would be tough not to like Sibelius's 3rd symphony - especially on the recent Davis LSO live recording.

regards, Tam

Hi Tam,

I have a good many friends who sadly do not like classical music at all, leastways they profess to dislike it - I have tried to introduce them to much of the music that moves me and I have to say I often only succeed in enforcing their prejudices. However certain pieces invariably DO IMPRESS them and those are the three pieces I have named earlier in this thread. In fact, even die hard heavy metal fans (yes, I know two) have been won over by Bruch. So there we are, not my favourite pieces by a long way, but they do resonate with those who have been weened on a steady diet of dross. I would add that 'Sul aria' from The Marriage of Figaro nearly always softens even the staunchest of the anti opera Orc folk as does the hopelessly over exposed 'Flower duet' from Lakme. What these pieces may have over other work is that on some level they will be familiar even if only remotely to a good percentage of the non-classical population and that may facilitate the cross over better than other less known but arguably better pieces. A good recording of The Planets played on an excellent system with the volume way up and the lights way down will ALWAYS impress even the most hardened musical neanderthal. I think it is often over-looked in the list of the so called best piece ever, I think it is a truly stunning work. Erik Satie always goes down well with a variety of people as does say, Smetana's - Ma Vlast and Vaughn Williams's Lark Ascending and fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis. These never fail to impress newbies. I agree the Sibelius 3rd symphony is an excellent piece of music and I would prefer to listen to it now over the Bruch but not sure it would more readily win converts (but how to prove it? - shall we write to Classic FM - the arch peddlars of popular classics to the blue rinse brigade for their expert opinion - I bet I win )

Regards,

Erik

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:
Violin Concerto in G minor - Max Bruch. Rollickingly good violin showpiece with orchestra.

or just tedious rubbish! Brahms, after hearing a spirited performace of the piece, went over to the performers afterwards and said, "nice manuscript paper!"

EW

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
Also, two symphonies that hooked me early on are, Brahms first and Dvorak ninth (New World)

Yep, that ought to do it.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
I think it would be tough not to like Sibelius's 3rd symphony - especially on the recent Davis LSO live recording.

Also, just to recommend Maazel's budget priced set with the VPO - if you don't have a complete set and want one, you can't go wrong... includes a quite staggering account of the 4th.

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:
Violin Concerto in G minor - Max Bruch. Rollickingly good violin showpiece with orchestra.

or just tedious rubbish! Brahms, after hearing a spirited performace of the piece, went over to the performers afterwards and said, "nice manuscript paper!"

EW

Does not alter the fact that newbies love it

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
The later Heifetz - Munch - Boston S.O is far superior to the Toscanini.

I did of course mean the later Heifetz - Reiner - Chicago S.O.

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:
Does not alter the fact that newbies love it

I did too when I was young...

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:
I have a good many friends who sadly do not like classical music at all ......

That is bit like some of the discussion on the "What Folk Music Do You Listen To" thread. I find it strange to classify an entire history of music as classical.

I remember being at school and defending modern progressive music music back in the 1970s - I told my music teacher that Emerson Lake Palmer's 'Knife Edge' was a stunning song and how could he not like it - as he professed not to like popular music. He remarked that he did indeed like the music from Knife Edge and proceeded to play me Janácek's Sinfonietta - remarkable seems like Janácek ripped off ELP before the members of that ensemble were even born. The distinction between classical and popular music was at once blurred for me. There could only be music I liked and music I didn't (and that categorisation was entirely mine based on my own subjective bias).

So I think it is entirely possible to like Sibelius, Janácek, Mahler, Gilbert & Sullivan, Nigel Blackwell, Elgar and Varese without having the same affection for Beethoven and Mozart (not my personal view I hasn't to add). Surely the music of one major composer is as different as The Beatles are from Coldplay (both classified as popular) though it is entirely possible to like The Beatles whilst detesting Coldplay (which is my personal view).

So I guess my advice is listen to the recommendations put them on the turntable (or in the CD player) and see if you like the music - worry not if it is classical, folk, pop, jazz or whatever - it is really that simple.

So, after all that, I'd like to recommend a recording that I have and just happen to like:

Sibelius Symphony No 2 - Boston Symphony Orchestra conducted by Colin Davis (mine is on vinyl - Philips 9500 141, but I'm sure you can get it on CD) There is also Symphony No 1 coupled with Finlandia by the same orchestra and conductor, which is another recording I enjoy.

As for the Four Seasons - I have an old vinyl version by La Petite Band led by Sigiswald Kuijken and it sounds right to me.

I am eagerly awaiting a Janácek box set that Tam recomended and I've ordered.

Best regards, Rotf

BTW just to demonstrate I do like Beethoven and Mozart - I have in my vinyl collection Mozart Salzburg Symphonies (1772-75) by The Academy of Ancient Music as part of the Florilegium Series and Beethoven 1-9 by VPO (Karl Bohm) on DG. And yes I do still play them ... all kinds of music hits my turntable or CD player at some time each week (though I find Jazz, Soul and Rap very hard to like ... must learn not to categorise)

Erik,

I suspect you're right - I'm sure it is a good getting started piece - I just can't stand it! I think the Sibelius 3rd is pretty accessible too (indeed it's his most accessible symphony in my view - it's so wonderfully sweeping lyrically).

That aria from Figaro, on the other hand is wonderful. Indeed, I'd go so far as to recommend a budget price set for someone getting started (since the whole opera is pretty accessible). I picked up the Gui account in HMV the other day for £6 and even the classic Giulini (which has the bonus of a libretto was going for around £15).

regards, Tam

quote:

There could only be music I liked and music I didn't (and that categorisation was entirely mine based on my own subjective bias).

The only way.

quote:

Sibelius Symphony No 2 - Boston Symphony Orchestra conducted by Colin Davis (mine is on vinyl - Philips 9500 141, but I'm sure you can get it on CD) There is also Symphony No 1 coupled with Finlandia by the same orchestra and conductor, which is another recording I enjoy.

I have the box set, very nice. Another fine Sibelius conductor is Sir Alexander Gibson with the S.N.O on Chandos.

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
Erik,


That aria from Figaro, on the other hand is wonderful. Indeed, I'd go so far as to recommend a budget price set for someone getting started (since the whole opera is pretty accessible)

Yes, I agree. In fact it was my first live opera experience. I've seen Figaro once at ROH Covent Garden and twice at Glyndebourne (once by the festival opera crew and once by the Glyndebourne touring opera crew which bizarrely was the best in my view)and although I have played the recording many times I think the most moving version is in the film 'Shawshank Redemption' where its playing/appearance is like cool water to a men dying of thirst. I love to watch the effect the playing over the public address system has on the de-humanised inmates - for a few minutes they become human and see a brief view of heaven. This is another reason for recommending the aria as many will have heard it in the film even if they can't remember where they heard it it will resonate all the more. La Boheme is very accessible too with three show stopping arias in the first act alone and that aint bad going is it?

I think I will listen to the Sibelius again on your recommendation, sweeping lyrically indeed.

Regards,

Erik

Erik,

I too am very fond of it's use in the Shawshank Redemption (one of my favourite films). I think the description fits so well about 'not knowing what the two ladies were singing about', indeed, when you find out it's rather disappointing!

Out of interest, was that the recent Glyndebourne on Tour production (I saw them do Figaro up here a few months back and it was indeed a rather fine production). I'm also told that the one currently running at the ROH is rather fine (though to these ears it didn't come across so well on the radio the week before last).

regards, Tam

I came to classical music from a predominatly rock and jazz leaning.
I started with the cheapest sets I could find,reasoning that if I liked the peice ,then other versions\interpretations would follow and that if I didn't like the peice then nothing too drastic had been wasted.
Performance and\or sound quality weren't the top criteria.
I was lucky I guess in so much as I started with Beethovens 4th piano concerto ,worked my way through the other 4 then the symphonies etc etc. The 4th piano concerto will haunt me till my dying day.
Anyone reccomend a not too dry\heavy Beethoven Biography?