Ittok LVIII/v2 vs Ekos 1-any point in changing?

Posted by: Jens on 11 December 2001

Hi All,

I have been offered an Ekos 1 with bearings in reasonable nick apparently. I am currently using the following: LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII/v2/MC Rohmann. From the descriptions of the Ekos I have read it sounds as if my Ittok is fairly similar: no arm rest, headshell glued on instead of screwed. I even believe that they use the same cabling. That said, has anybody heard the two arms side by side, and is able to compare their performance?

When I asked a similar question earlier, 2 people reckoned that this version of the Ittok was better than the Ekos. Anyone else care to comment? Finally, what's the diff between Ekos 1 & 2, and does anybody know from which serial number on the bearing issue was solved in the Ekos?

Cheers, Jens

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Duncan Fullerton
I had an Ittok and dem'd an Ekos when it came out. The difference, to my ears, was night and day. Did the dem with my other half in tow and not a dissenting word was heard when I lobbed the dealer a grand there and then. Added a Troika later and have never wanted to change.

I've no experience of later Ittoks and Ekii.

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Dev B
If I had an Ittok 3 vs Ekos 1, I wouldn't bother. I don't think there is much in it, in fact I would say the Ittok 3 was probably better. Linn had all sorts of manufacturing problems with the Ekos1.
Posted on: 12 December 2001 by John G.
"Finally, what's the diff between Ekos 1 & 2, and does anybody know from which serial number on the bearing issue was solved in the Ekos?"

Ekos 2 came out around serial number 6,200. Visually you can tell by looking at the base of the arm that fits into the arm collar mounted on the armboard. The base of the arm is smooth all around where on the Ekos 1 and Ittok there is a groove in it where the grub screw on the arm collar contacts the arm base.

The Ekos2 should outperform the Ekos1 significantly.

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Bob Edwards
Jens--

If you're happy with the LV3 I would not bother changing for an Ekos 1 unless it were free (as in an even exchange) and you heard an improvement. The LV3 was/is a killer arm and there are many who prefer it to the Ekos 1. While an Ekos 1 does represent a substantial upgrade from an Ittok LV2, the LV3 was a horse of a different color.

If you are set on upgrading, then also try a well set up Aro.

Cheers,

Bob

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Justin
I have owned both arms, and emphatically believe that the Ittock is the better of the two arms. The Ekos had better bass, and that's all. It gave up considerable ground to the Ittock (in my system, anyway) in over-all balance and high frequency performance. In my experience, the Ekos was a step backwards in terms of the ability to make music. Pyrotechnically, it was more impressive. But it wore on me very quickly. I think the Ittock LVIII is the best arm for the LP-12 period (I have owned the ARO on the same table as well).

I regret selling my Ittock LV III more than any other component. Period.

judd

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Justin
If you are going to sell the Ittock III, you know where to find me.

Judd

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Dev B
quote:
While an Ekos 1 does represent a substantial upgrade from an Ittok LV2, the LV3 was a horse of a different color.

If you are set on upgrading, then also try a well set up Aro

Absolutely, the LV3 has different strengths to the Ekos1 and I would argue Ekos 2. More refined in the top end less bass more music. But an Aro is better.

Didn't Naim mod the Ittok's mounting duringh the initial armaggedon mods?

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Justin
. . . I want to be very clear about my position. Even compared to the Ekos II (I had seriel number 7600 or there-abouts), the Ittock LV III was the better arm. The Ekos tends to compartmentalize the music into bass, midrange, and treble (bright, tizzy treble, at that) but never even attempts to weave these artifacts into coherentr music. The Ekos II is imbalanced in its presentation, and simply not as musical.

On that same note, I felt the ARO went a bit in the opposite direction of the Ekos (though, clearly better than the Ekos II), but I still preferred the Ittock LV III. The ARO is considerably better balanced than the EKOS, but no better at integrating the musical pallatte than the Ittock LV III. Where I think the Ittock III is better than the ARO (and ultimately presents the better arm, in my view) is that it has better bass than the ARO. To me (I had my LP-12 on a Mana wall shelf with dyna 17D2MKII) the ARO was threadbare. Yes, it sounded very good, but on balance, I preferred my Ittock LV III oweing mainly to a rather lightweight (hollow) character the ARO had (again, in the context of an admittedly already light weight set-up; i.e., mana, dyna 17, etc.)

The Ittock III remains the best arm I have ever heard on the LP12. I wonder if the expensive Morch is any good. It sure looks the business.

Judd

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Dev B:
Linn had all sorts of manufacturing problems with the Ekos1.


Seconded!!

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Paul Davies
I got my Ekos in March 1990 after comparing it with the ARO and the then current Ittok. (Anybody know if it was the III by then? I think it was.) No doubt in my mind that the Ekos was the best of the three by a wide margin.

Nearly 12 years on, my Ekos still performs without problems. <sarcasm>Obviously I was one of the lucky few that got a good one.</sarcasm>

I can't understand Justin's preference for the Ittok. I have not experienced the compartmentalization of the music that he describes. But then again, I can't understand the preference of most contributors to the Forum on this subject for the ARO. I guess that you shouldn't believe all that you read here.

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Jens
Hi All,

I thought I'd let you know how my tonearm mission ended. I explained my quandry regarding whether the Ekos was an improvement over my Ittok LVIII/v2 to the seller, and made him an offer. His reply was as follows:
"I'm gonna regret this...Don't under any circumstances sell the Ittok to replace with my Ekos. The late Ittoks were indistinguishable from the early Ekoses. and it would be a bit of a lie for me to say yes yes its a good upgrade. Its not. the Last few Ittocks were some of the best arms Linn ever produced..."

How's that for honesty? I was amazed at the honesty of his approach, hence this posting. For those of you in the market for an Ekos, you should check out FoxDancing's offer on the Naim Market-but you'd better be quick, he may have an offer already.

Cheers,
Jens

Posted on: 18 December 2001 by Paul B
I have also owned both arms (Ekos II and Ittok II)on LP12s. I am also familiar with the Ittok III (athough I haven't seen one for many years) and more recently the Aro.

IMO opinion neither of the Ittoks equal or surpass the Ekos II as I believe it is better in all musical areas that I care about. However, having more recently compared an Aro to the Ekos, I would say that the Aro is superior in ceertain areas (a little quicker perhaps with a greater feeling of musical involvement). The Ekos II may have greater bass weight, though (which I care less about but is still fine). The Ekos is an excellent alternative IMO.

Despite owning an Ekos already, my next purchase will be an Aro for a second fully Naimed LP12 I am putting together (a luxury I have convinced myself that I can indulge in since I don't have to spend a lot of money on a CD player and CDs).

Paul

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Davies:
<sarcasm>Obviously I was one of the lucky few that got a good one.</sarcasm>


Paul,

why the sarcasm?

This is an excellent description of the lottery that was owning an Ekos-I. I know, I was on the losing end, and my dealer says that all Ekos-I after the first batch were shite by comparison.

My arm had to be sent back to Linn for the bearings to be adjusted. This was common.

In earlier days, Linn had used highly skilled people to build their arms.

By the time of the Ekos-I they were running them down a semi-skilled mini production-line. My dealer had the factory tour and chatted to some of these people - they were working by rote, and didn't understand what they were doing. No wonder a lot of duds came out. :-(

Martin

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Paul Ranson
quote:
In earlier days, Linn had used highly skilled people to build their arms.

Surely the only arm 'built in Scotland by Linn' prior to the Ekos 1 was the 'Black Ittok'?

quote:
By the time of the Ekos-I they were running them down a semi-skilled mini production-line.

So this cannot follow? There would have been a huge burst of local production when the Ekos was launched.

FWIW I've had a 1987ish Ekos since new, it seems to be OK. At the time the ARO was announced, reviewed, and unavailable. I don't see a serial number on the arm anywhere, I'll dig the box out sometime.

Paul

Paul

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by bob atherton
I don't know which year, but I guess around 1989 I did a dem of Ittok II, vs Ekos 1 & Aro. I waited for the Aro to come out as I was starting to loose confidence in Linn at this time & thought the Aro might be the arm for me . It was also 'only' £580.00 ( I think ).

Any way listened to the Ittok as a known yard stick. Listened to the Ekos, big improvement on the Ittok, but still obviously the same family. Tried the Aro..... & the music just fell apart. I queried the performance with the dealer who assured me that the set up was correct & this is the way the Aro sounds, the dealer didn't think
much of the Aro either.

Bought the Ekos & was very happy with it until an accident damaged it 2 years ago. My insurance claim got me the Ekos II 'upgrade' and this was significantly better than the Ekos 1.

Just my story. I'm sure mileage's have varied on this one!

Bob.

Posted on: 19 December 2001 by Bob Edwards
Jens--

Considering who the seller is, I'd have been disappointed to hear otherwise. TF has strong opinions--not all of which I agree with-- but I have never doubted for a second that he presents his views openly and honestly. Very fortunate that you were not dealing with a dealer--"Of course the Ekos 1 is a massive upgrade. . . "

Hope you're enjoying the LV3--keep it and buy more records!

Cheers,

Bob