Going CD-less to fund amp upgrade?

Matt, if your not using the CDP, or rarely, as you say it makes perfect sense to trade in components to upgrade your system.

In fact from what you've posted the change to either of the two above would eventually allow for a very nice upgrade for your TT system by adding a FC2x and stageline.

In fact budget, demos, future considerations for potential upgrades down the line, for about $600 USD more instead of the 122x/150 you could add the XS/FC2x/stageline which would really be very nice for your TT system since it seems that is what you use most often.

Last week I was at Rega1's place and he's got SN/FC2x/stageline/Rega P3 and it sounded really terrific.

Just a few thoughts
Enjoy, but make sure you listen before buying

quote:

Proposed change is to sell/trade in the CD5i and Nait 5i and get a Nait XS or 122X/150.

Sell the Axis/CD5i and get an LP12, use your existing arm, cartridge etc.., with the N5i.

I only really have the Axis to play the little amount of records I have, most of my music is on CD and now also in FLAC on my music server, hence the Squeezebox being my most used source. I'm more interested in peoples views about dropping the CD player in favor of a distributed audio solution than getting back into vinyl.

gary1(US): I got the P75 after running a Stageline at home for a couple of months, to be honest I thought the P75 had a bit more life to it's sound than the Stageline.

matt303 i have the following:
supernait/neat momentum 3i/target R2 stands/NACA5/VDH optical/airport express/netgear SC101T server/dedicated tecra M9 laptop/itunes.

in the past 20 years i have had many vinyl systems and many CD based. i have also had both in my last proper setup. having 1000's of CDs and records i personally would never go back to either. server based 2 channel audio is by far the best in every respect. personally i would go the whole hog and go for the SN as you say the squeezebox is your main source.

Hi Matt,

I've been CDless for over 6 months. Like you I have a SB3/CA DacMagic being served wirelessly from my iMac. I do not rip lossless for 2 reasons: i) the amount a space it would take on my HD (256 is fine), ii) due to the wireless signal tending to drop if lossless and there is no way it would reach the bedroom with the SB Boom without serious problems. I have been enjoying the music immensely especially with the addition of the DacMagic (previously Beresford) but I was missing the CDP (CD5/FC2). Or was it the CDP? Or was it the routine of scanning the shelves and hunting down a cd, looking over the sleevenotes/lyrics as I listen? Putting it on the tray and sitting back to really listen rather than doing something else as the music is playing as the SB makes it so convenient to do.

So I thought about just getting something fairly cheap and using it as a transport for the Dac. Got hold of an Arcam Alpha and Sony 337esD (the former sub £50 and the other sub £200). The later is heavily over engineered and built to last, not to mention it sounds great without going through the dac. The Arcam sounds good but the Sony is the one staying. I haven't tried it through the dac yet, everything in good time.

Suck it and see is the answer I guess. Each to their own. Upgrade your amp and if you miss the CDP then there are cheap options out there to return to if you desire.

Just a thought.

Regards

Neil

Matt, here's the problem which you need to sort out:

I had an CD5x/FC2x before moving to the HDX. I also have a Sonos--> SN DAC which I really like, interface, rhapsody etc... and the music is pretty good. The CDP/PSU combination was far better than the Sonos and it was when I played the Cds on my CDP that you really notice what your missing with the DAC combo. So my solution was:

casual listening, variety--Sonos
critical listening-- CD5x/PSU

Either way upgrading you components will improve your enjoyment. Maybe the Naim DAC will be just the thing when released in combo with an upgrade of your kit.

quote:

Originally posted by badlyread:
(256 is fine),

Really? SUPER lossy mp3's sound ok?

Does then the DAC really matter?

Did you miss the point of

quote:

Putting it on the tray and sitting back to really listen rather than doing something else as the music is playing as the SB makes it so convenient to do.

? And yes the DAC makes a difference at 256.

matt303,

You will find opinions both ways here regarding sound quality (disregarding convenience for the moment). So if sound quality is an issue, it is up to your ears. As for me, I sold my CD player, and used the proceeds on upgrade. If I need to play a CD, I play it from my macbook - but this is rare. I rip CD's as you are doing.

Cheers,


Charlie

Like a few people that have replied when I originally got the SB3 it was to dip my toe into the world of music streaming for causal listening. To start with I just ran the SB3 and used it to access the mp3 rips of my CDs that I had made for my iPod and my Arcam CD player was my main source (this was before I had the Nait 5i and CD5i). Then I re-ripped my CDs into FLAC but the CD5i still had an easily heard advantage over the SB3 so serious listening still happened on the CD player. Then the DACs came and things became less well differentiated so the SB3 -> Beresford got used more and more, the switch to the DacMagic has just made things even better for the SB3. I can only describe the difference between the SB3->DM and the CD player as a minor change in voicing, it's almost like the difference I found between the CD5i and the Rega Apollo CD players when I demoed them. So for me i don't think it's a case needing to compromise in sound quality, I listened to some CDs yesterday and then the same tracks from the SB3 and they were equally enjoyable.

Someone I work with also runs a SB3->DM and the other week he said he'd finally got a new amp and speakers to go with them. So now runs a 122X/150 into Monitor Audio PL100s, that's quite a back end on a DacMagic.

r-tee: Yeah the SN would be the ideal solution but is a little above my price range for HiFi bits.

In some ways the idea product for me would be if Naim made a unit like Linn's Sneaky DS but minus the built-in amps and with a web interface like Squeezecenter, oh well one can wish.

matt303,

I used an SB3 for a couple of years. I added the Bolder (linear) power supply to replace the wallwart, and the improvement in PRaT was dramatic (search my earlier posts). Also the wallwart might polute your AC mains power. I highly recommend you look into adding a linear power supply. I think the Bolder is overpriced, but you can probably do well for much less money. This will bring your SB3 + DM more competitive with good CD players.

A dilemma you face is that when upgraded you will have a more revealing system with which to judge the differences in your source - but you may need to commit to selling the CD player to fund the upgrade. Can you do a home demo of the XS before commiting?

Or maybe better not to fret over this. There will be more DAC options in the future, and the pleasure of listening to the music server has led to infrequent use of your CD5i; so maybe trade in the CD player while it is still worth something. Then you can enjoy the SB3+DM through a XS, at the expense of abandoning the (admittedly rare) "critical listening" with the CD player.


Charlie

Matt

You have given me food for thought here. If I was to sell my CD5 as well as my CDS2/XPS2 and my 52/52PS I would free up a lot funds towards a 552.....hmmm...

Cheers

Jim

I sold my cd-player (Marantz) for about 3 years and switched to the Cambridge Music Server.My amp was the 5i.
Because the Cambridge has limited internal HD-Space i made some "blind"random listenings between wav and 256 vbr mp3, what to choose.Because i didnt hear a difference between them, i choose to go the mp3- way.
Btw the Cambridge with the mp3 sounded better than the marantz with the CDs.
Then i bought the Supernait, which was a major upgrade, depending on the SN for itsself and the int.DAC, which i think is better than the built in in the Cambridge.
Because i didnt like the navigation on the small screen of the Cambridge and the limited hd-space i decided to switch to SqueezeboxDuett and ext. HD.
Now i made a hearing competition between my mp3 and flac, even i didnt hear a difference, i ripped my cd-collection >1000 again in flac.
Because now everything is loseless, i saw no sense in keeping my cds, i sold all my cds and bought me from the money a Supercap .
Back to the initial question, i didnt regret to switch away from cds, because there was no stepback in sound quality for me, but a huge step forward in operation comfort.
Very important is backup, i have trippled my collection on 3 ext-hd, stored at home and at work.

quote:

due to the wireless signal tending to drop if lossless and there is no way it would reach the bedroom with the SB Boom without serious problems

I had the same problems with my flac, so i took the mixed mode.SB-Contr. wireless no problems and for the receiver i use d-link in english power-link?(lan over the power line)it works perfect.

No need to go CDless. If you've got a decent DAC get a second hand transport.

Well I've just got a 122X/150X and apart from hardly being able to touch the volume control without getting my head blown off I'm quite pleased. I think I'll be trying some attenuators between the DacMagic and the 122X to get things a bit more usable (or get a Lavry). I'm also going to do some more CD5i vs. Dac listening with the new amp.

quote:

Originally posted by themrock:
Because now everything is lossless, I saw no sense in keeping my cds, I sold all my cds and bought me from the money a Supercap .

Was theft ever so easily swallowed?

A point that I have made on several occasions here, and no one ever responded.

If one has copied the discs to HD server [or other stoirage and replay system] then to retain the right to play the copyrighted material you must retain the original discs.

If you sell the discs you have copied, then you have stolen the contents, just as surely as if you had borrowed the CDs from the library and copied them, only to return the CDs later ...

ATB from George

By the way when I said CD-less I meant going without a CD player in my setup, I'm keeping my CDs.

I suspect that over time more and more people will replay and copy their CDs without actually running a dedicated CD player.

This afternoon I am experimenting with using an IDE drive in my omputer as the transport for my DAC.

My initial response is that apart from tracking the discs more reliably than the worn out CD player, there is no significant sonic change - certainly no loss in quality that is obvious!

Ella is sounding glorious!

I am using VLC Media player which is robust, can decipher any sort of file, and has respectable quality ...

I was going to consider a new transport for the Lavry D10.

On this evidence the computer is fully up to the task of acting as transport!

Why did I not think of that sooner?

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
This afternoon I am experimenting with using an IDE drive in my omputer as the transport for my DAC.

My initial response is that apart from tracking the discs more reliably than the worn out CD player, there is no significant sonic change - certainly no loss in quality that is obvious!

I suspect the player is reading ahead on the CD and then playing from a buffer so removing most of the reliance on the quality of the transport. I believe that the current Rega CD players work in a similar fashion.

Dear Matt,

For whatever reassdons it is playing right through some CDs that have never tracked properly since new!

Why, you might reasonably ask did I not exchange them at new?

The answer is simple, in that they were special imports that came from as far afield as Finland and Japan, where the guarantee of getting a replacement rather than a refund was not certain!

In each case of difficulty [with tracking on normal CD players] it occurs in only one or two tracks on individuals discs in multi-CD sets ...

Very pleasing result!

It does sound like the transport is whirring very much faster than a CD player transport, and the results are very fine. This is only audible if you get close tothe computer, and if you do the same to a CD player, you also can hear it working!

Now all I have to do is fit a better soundcard, and hey presto, the future is solved at very little cost.

I shall not store the CD in HD form as yet, as I suspect that things will improve in this area over the next few years, but use the computer as a transport!

I call that a result!

ATB from George

I have found the fly in the ointment!

The same old thing:

Gapless replay over track joins in continous music divided over several tracks!

Windows Media Player works in this respect, but is sonically flawed!

ATB from George

Try ripping one of these CDs in FLAC, I've not had a single gap or glitch with FLAC streamed to my SB3 or played local on my Mac.

Dear Matt,

Sorry to derail your thread! I know a solution that works, but cannot afford it yet!

And it involves a MAC!

Everything I have attempted on a PC either requires significant extra expenditure on special cards [or whatever] to be added, or software that is entirely beyond me to master the opperation of.

The plug and play aspect of the Mac solution and the respectable "if not quite optimised in the way of top CD replay" quality is entirely fine enough for me.

The issue is simply one of affording a Mac and it is being saved for!

ATb from George

Dear Avole,

What I do know about a Mac,is that I can take it to a friend who has one running beautifully, and he can set it up right out of the box for me, and show me what to do to make it work nicely. I know it can work because I have heard it work!

What is much harder is that with a PC you have to get the hardware right, and then the software selected correctely, ... and then take it to someone who understands the ins and outs. About three stages rather than only one after purchase with the Mac.

I am saving like mad for a Macbook, because what ever I do with a PC actually is invariably so flawed as to be unacceptable for daily use.

If computers were easy for me, then no doubt the situation would be different! I know my limits. I am happy to really get stuck into rebuilding and servicing something I understand like a petrol engine or a bike! But computers are not my bag!

ATB from George