The Road to Damascus

Yes Kit, its the best cable I've heard to date and it stays. And the Mana stays under the sources - now you get some, go on, I dare you.

Alex

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Those who complain that Mana is too this or too that just haven't set it up properly. Its as simple as that.

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So what's the secret? I'm all ears.

Alex S wrote:

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Mana is the best support there is for an LP12 and for a CDS2.

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Been there, done that. Mana works with LP12, CDX and CDS1. For a CDS2 the best you can hope for is no change. Usually though, it kills the sound.

Arthur Bye

I recently accepted an invitation from John Watson to go and hear his system on lots of Mana.

I went with Stallion and our respective partners, and we had a great time.

JW's system is the most musical I have heard to date, and yes, it plays the tune!

I also found that the CDS was as good if not better than the LP12 with certain recordings.

Mana may have resonance issues which may kill the tune, but once you have sufficient levels of support, imho, the isolation properties seem to obviate them.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

So Steven, what you are saying is in the first place mana sounds crap, but add enough of it and it dosn't sound crap anymore?

garyi,

No.

what I am saying is that Mana has a resonance characteristic that you'll either love or not, but perhaps this characteristic seems to disappear as the isolation derived from adding more levels of Mana takes over from the resonance.

Mr Pig once said that Mana gets interesting from Phase Four. Phase 14/17 is very interesting indeed!

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

I won't try to be scientific but its true that Mana is a support like no other. It is an instrument and it needs to be working. Since I work with my hands I can level it and tune it but I'd also always over-tightenend it. Now its set up right and it works, on just phase 3. I can't understand where Arthur's coming from.

I agree that Mana does something to the sound. What it does in my system is make it bigger (wider and deeper), more dynamic, more insightful, detailed, open, fast, blah, blah. So, I find it difficult to understand those that proclaim 'I don't like what Mana does', especially if they like Naim, Densen, Dynavector; equipment that is dynamic, fast, open, blah blah. Yes, if you want to smooth all the edges and cuddle up to a warm, shimmering sound then don't get Mana; and don't get Naim either.

The only rider is that I will live with this sound for a month to ensure that there are no hidden nasties. I do that with any change these days because first impressions are not always right. They usually are though.

Alex

Sweet Spots
Phases 4, 7, and 9 and beyond


Horses for Courses
Mana may not be everyones cup of tea although many just jump on the band wagon to have a pop, even though they've never heard it, if it isn't then fair enough, but as Alex mentions and i've said before it complements what Naim is all about (musical characteristics)

naheed...

Alex S wrote:

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I can't understand where Arthur's coming from.

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Alex: I have both a 4 and 6 tier Mana. I have tried the CDS2 on Phase 1, 3, and 5. Additionally I have also tried it with and without the 3m feet. I like what it does for other sources, especially the CDX and the CDS1.

The CDS2 is another animal though. I fiddled with it quite a few times now as I would be a lot more convenitent to keep my CDS2 on the same stand as my other sources. The extra sharpness or focus that is offered by other soures with Mana is simply not there with the CDS2. I've even considered getting a Nuance shelf to try out.

Maybe I need to go to phase 14. That's a bit to high off the ground for my liking. The CDS2 sounds pretty good on its own right anyhow.

Just my ears and my opinion. I'm sure others may disagree.

Also consider that there's a reason that JW still runs a CDS1. I don't think the reason has anything to do with affordability.

Arthur Bye

I had everuthing on Mana but the Fraim took the music into the room, even if Mana was impressive in some areas. For me, it felt unnatural with Mana after comparing to Fraim.

/Erik

PS. You should have been banned from tha Mana forum for such pro-Fraim posts. I was! DS

Obviously you've experimented a lot, I didn't doubt it. All I can say is that to date the new prototype 'Strata' Base platfrom is the best thing I'd heard under a CDS2 - its wonderfully neutral and gives good weight and body to instruments without slowing the music down. Phase 3 Mana is better. I didn't want to like it. I tried extremely hard to find words like 'tune loss', 'too forward'. To date I've not found them. I can only find dynamic, expressive. Musical nuances are better anunciated - that was the biggest dent in any of my preconceptions.

When I had my nuts too tight I was sure the CDS2 didn't like Mana. I know all the arguments about the two suspended sections of the player. Perhaps different ones might respond differently?

I too have tried the 3m feet (stuck to the cross head screws within the player's own feet) - couldn't tell much if any difference.

Will you ask JW why he's using a CDS1 or shall I?

Alex

The ultimate support for the CDS2:

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Originally posted by Alex S.:
Will you ask JW why he's using a CDS1 or shall I?

Alex

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Alex,

someone recently suggested to me that they'd heard a CDSii at JW's.

Don't know if this was some sort of sign that he'd changed over.

cheers, Martin

Alex S wrote

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Will you ask JW why he's using a CDS1 or shall I?

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Better you should ask. I generally avoid the Zoo. Good place to go lurking but there are a lot of animals over there that bite.

Arthur Bye

I recently heard JW's system - CDS1 on Phase Fourteen Mana, and it sounded fantastic. If it isn't broken...

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

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Just set it up properly and away you go. Those who complain that Mana is too this or too that just haven't set it up properly. Its as simple as that.

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It depends on what is sitting on it. Whilst it did great things under my LP12 (and I went up to Phase 8 before the blooming shelf came away from the wall ) it never worked properly underneath my DNM preamp or my turntable, and a change of direction showed me that whilst Mana adds many things, it doesn't necessarily guarantee balance and musicality - those things still depend more on component matching and the quality of your electric supply and siting of your speakers.

Put it another way, I've now heard JW's system - and I'd be interested, Steven, if you could describe how it differs from other systems I have heard - e.g. my own, 'Bubs, the swine's, Sybil's, etc. Not in terms of 'it's just better' (which I am sure it is) but in terms of how it is better, or different. It would be interesting to hear, comparatively speaking...

My Mana days were certainly productive - I discovered a lot about hifi and the importance of supports. I also discovered that it's often a real eye opener to take all the kit off a stand and try it on other stands or surfaces - sometimes you will be surprised by the results. I know I was...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Marco,

The speaker stands are the only bit of Mana I now own in my main system, and I wouldn't dare part with them such is their contribution. However, having been at Phase 8 or so under the rest of the kit, I'd have to state for the record that my system on QS Reference sounds better than it did on Mana, and that's with careful tuning and levelling, and finger-tight but not much more bolts. Then again, my system is not Naim and probably never will be and you have to understand that Mana will have a different effect on different gear - whether it's a significant improvement as is often the case, or a retrogade step (as it was for my turntable) only you can decide.

Your policy of at least trying it to find out is sound, however, and I wish you luck. Just remember that different is not necessarily better, and don't be swayed by the initial impressions of others - it's all up to you...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

For very many reasons, I can't wait for your report!

Alex

Alex,

Good to hear you like your system - I hope the thread doesn't go the same way as your experience with 8TC. Look forward to the update in a month.

David

Yes, thanks, its getting there. I know what you mean/infer - sometimes its different not better. I'll wait a month before I truly decide, but on this occassion I approached from a position of scepticism - I wanted to believe it was going to be worse.

James McBlzebub can verify that I still tried to whimper rubbish like 'yes, but is the tune still there', but it was to no avail. Mana is obviously better in every way, especially the subtle ones. It even makes Bruckner rivetting!

Alex

A couple of BTWs: I don't doubt the Townshend Isolda one bit - awesome; and have you pre-ordered your L300 yet?

Alex,

I'd send the Mana back if Bruckner only sounds rivetting - maybe after a month of settling down, it will become spiritual.

So how much is the Townsend Isolda? Presumably no bass bloom?

I'm supposed to be on John Burns list for updating when the L300 becomes available. Haven't heard a final list price yet - probably will have to be cheaper than a 52 and perform like a 552 for me to change though.

David

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So how much is the Townsend Isolda? Presumably no bass bloom?

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£55/m but you can use unequal lengths.

As for the "bass bloom," I haven't tried it yet, and won't until I have sold my P25 to pay for it!

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

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probably will have to be cheaper than a 52 and perform like a 552 for me to change though.

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I'm sure it will be.

Isolda is as Steven says (well £50pm actually) with £100 on top for termination with gizmos (mandatory I think). Its charged up to the next metre - so 2.9m costs the same as 2m, and, yes, it can be used in unequal lengths. Nor should it be moved apparently, it work hardens and undoes some of the cryogenic annealing process - ha ha.

I have listened briefly to Red Dawn at silly money pm and it was very open, detailed and hi-fi. Isolda is all that but just feels more natural (I have made no scientific comparisons). It has fabulous bass control and extension.

Alex

if Fraim is the Ultimate support, why are the cds2 and 52 sat on another support then fraim ???

naheed...

Naheed:

I do not use the glass in my Mana racks under the CDS2/52....been there, done that.

I am building a house right now, so hi-fi funds are on hold, but Fraim will be the next upgrade as it is so amazing. Its like adding another XPS to the CDS2. Truly a benchmark product.

Chris Bell