Do you think it is theoretically possible to create 'you' on a memory stick?

Posted by: Consciousmess on 20 August 2009

Hi all,

I've just spurred myself to ask this question as I have rest read and responded to the 'alien planet' thread.

I know the question I've posed in this present thread has the potential to create divided camps as some people believe there is a non-material 'soul' and others are materialists.

I am personally a materialist as I cannot fathom any possible way that an aspect of me is spiritually transcendent. Therefore, if that assumption is made, it follows that my mind/my consciousness/my subjective qualia is merely the emergent property of the physical material that makes up my entire physiology.

So in theory, I could be replicated on a memory stick and have immortality!!!

Just a thought.

Jon

PS Imagine if this memory stick wasn't looked after and got corrupt files or nasty viruses? I know cognitive psychologists equate the brain with a computer, so does this metaphor mean the memory stick also gets mental illnesses?
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by mikeeschman
No. The parameters have never been completely defined for the notion of "you".
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:
Originally posted by avole:
That's an interesting question, and reminds me of some teleportation theories.

According to one theory the only way to do achieve teleportation is to break whatever is being teleported down to the molecular level, send the information about each molecule to the destination teleport address then rebuild it there with that information, not with the original molecules but clones of them.

The obvious question is whether the you that gets teleported/reconstructed the other end is the same as the you that's lying presumably in some molecular waste bin at the point of departure.


Se the movie "The Prestige" for more details on this.
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by Kevin-W
The great physicist Lawrence Krauss wrote a very entertaining book a few years back called The Physics Of star Trek in which he talked about whether teleportation (and warp speed travel, etc) was possible.

He concluded that teleportation was just about impossible.

Similarly, I reckon it would be impossible to reproduce Jon on a memory stick - being a materialist or a theist or anything else has nothing to do with it.

One of the things that makes you "you" or me "me" is the way we see the world, the accumulation of our lifetime experiences, our physic selves and our perception of our physical selves... basically, all that stuff in your head.

How is that constituted? We know very little about the way human memory works, but we know enough to know that it is completely different to computer memory. I reckon that, even with unforseen advances in technology, it would be impossible to reproduce a fully-conscious Consciousness on a memory stick, or indeed anywhere else...
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by Fraser Hadden
Flatly no, I think.

At quantum physics level, 'you' couldn't be 'read' without altering 'you'. Thus, the reconstructed 'you' wouldn't (couldn't) be 'you' in every particular.

Fraser
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by Willy
Inevitable.

Willy.
Posted on: 20 August 2009 by NaimDropper
I would want some bloody good anti-virus software...
David
Posted on: 21 August 2009 by Consciousmess
Reading through your responses, I sincerely note some highly intelligent remarks.

But when I posed the question, and used the term 'memory stick' to refer to the storage device that would be 'YOU', the memory stick could be made up of elements far different from what is presently used (obviously). So, I am primarily focused on the notion of whether we are material or not.

I understand the complications of quantum mechanics, and honestly claim to just have A-Level knowledge of this (!), but surely these characteristics of our physical environment are present in EVERYTHING, which counteracts such phenomena on the memory stick?

Obviously we are 1000s of years off understanding every intricacy of the mind - and there are divided camps as to whether this is possible - and on top of this is that famous experiment on the Turing computer (the Turing test). I know Turing helped crack the Enigma code, but on the topic of aftificial intelligence, if a human cannot distinguish between a computer response and a human response, is the computer the human?

There is no way to tell!

Regards,

Jon
Posted on: 21 August 2009 by Willy
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
Reading through your responses, I sincerely note some highly intelligent remarks.

But when I posed the question, and used the term 'memory stick' to refer to the storage device that would be 'YOU', the memory stick could be made up of elements far different from what is presently used (obviously). So, I am primarily focused on the notion of whether we are material or not.

Had assumed that we weren’t subject to current technologies and the question was one of materialness or otherwise.

I understand the complications of quantum mechanics, and honestly claim to just have A-Level knowledge of this (!), but surely these characteristics of our physical environment are present in EVERYTHING, which counteracts such phenomena on the memory stick?

The brain operates at a cellular level. It’s way to large (not to mention slow) forquantum effects to have any bearing.

Obviously we are 1000s of years off understanding every intricacy of the mind - and there are divided camps as to whether this is possible - and on top of this is that famous experiment on the Turing computer (the Turing test). I know Turing helped crack the Enigma code, but on the topic of aftificial intelligence, if a human cannot distinguish between a computer response and a human response, is the computer the human?

For me the question of is it living is if it can continue to “evolve” in a meaningful manner. Ultimately I see no reason why that wouldn’t be possible.

There is no way to tell!

Regards,

Jon


Interesting book on how the mind (might) work is “On Intelligence” by Jeff Hawkins (of Palm fame).

“Quantum Gods” by Victor J Stenger is a useful read for dispelling some of the new age myths of a “quantum brain”.


Regards,

Willy
Posted on: 21 August 2009 by Consciousmess
quote:
Interesting book on how the mind (might) work is “On Intelligence” by Jeff Hawkins (of Palm fame).

“Quantum Gods” by Victor J Stenger is a useful read for dispelling some of the new age myths of a “quantum brain”.


Regards,

Willy



Thanks for that, Willy, as I'm a big Victor Stenger fan!! I'll get hold of that book.

Jon

PS When I was reading your responses, I agreed with them and I recalled Francis Crick's great 1994 book: The Astonishing Hypothesis, the Scientific Search for the Soul. In it he says that quantum theory acts at levels far too small to have any effect on the neurological mechanisms.
Posted on: 21 August 2009 by nap-ster
I don't know about you lot but I'd need a 64Gb.
Posted on: 21 August 2009 by Willy
quote:
Originally posted by nap-ster:
I don't know about you lot but I'd need a 64Gb.


Heck, my printer needs more than that!


Willy.