Naim label (suggestions)

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Originally posted by John C:
I'll be frank I don't like any CDs I've heard on the Naim label much. I only listen to jazz so comments restricted to that ( + antonio). Ken Christianson produces beautifully recorded pieces but none appeal to me ... (with apologies to Fred Simon who is of course a marvel)

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If I read this correctly, none appeal to you except for mine? Well, then, if that's the case, here's an obvious answer: more Fred Simon albums on Naim.

Thanks, John (I think).

John

We wouldn't want to see him defect to the ECM camp would we?

Bob.

PS Fred, don't worry about giving me the 10 UKP in cash, I will accept a cheque..

Hock, I don't see that "only good enough to play in clubs" is a problem. Lots of fine jazz artists only ever play clubs, especially the "many very talented musicians cannot even get a consistent recording contract". And of course it's intimate settings where people like AF really shine, and also it's intimate settings that really work well with naim's recording techniques.

It's not the greatest label in the world, but there's some good stuff on it brought over with plenty of atmosphere. No arguments about mopping up some more British jazz though, but one wonders why Tim Garland's Dean Street Orchestra can't make a deal with Linn, which TG already records for? He's just started playing with Earthworks in place of Patrick Clahar, maybe the DSO will end up with DGM...?

Pete.

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Originally posted by hockman:

Perhaps I didn't make myself understood wrt Forcione. As far as jazz/world guitarists go, he is pretty LAME.

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Really down to style, I think. Technically he's got it: at least, Martin Taylor seems to think so, and I won't argue with his opinion on guitar technique! If you don't like the style or his compositions, fair enough: I can see that his collage of styles and influences wouldn't necessarily appeal to every fan of "pure" jazz guitar.

Pete.

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Originally posted by bob atherton:
Come on guys, how about another release from Fred. I really, really rate him. IMHO he is in the same league as the top ECM artists like Eberhard Weber, Jan Garbarek & Nana Vasconcelos, hell he's even played with most of them ( ooo errr misses...! ).

We wouldn't want to see him defect to the ECM camp would we?

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Bob, thanks so much for the powerful endorsement. I'm humbled; those are some of my absolute favorite musicians.

I do have to clarify: never played with Weber, Garbarek, or Vasconcelos, but yes, Ralph Towner, Paul McCandless, Lyle Mays, as well as Larry Coryell, Jerry Goodman, Iain Matthews, Stan Kenton, and other non-ECM artists.

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PS Fred, don't worry about giving me the 10 UKP in cash, I will accept a cheque..

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It's in the mail, Bob.

I certainly wouldn't be adverse to you forwarding your suggestion directly to Naim via e-mail if so inclined. There's another 10 in it for you if you do.

I can't see the difference between the talented yet unknown American jazz musicians that have been mentioned in the thread, and the talented yet unknown American jazz musicians that we have recorded.

I am alway open to being sent demo tapes/CDs of any musical style, including British jazz musicians. Any help procuring a demo by the unsigned musician whose CD everyone wants to buy gratefully received.

Thanks to Pete for his vocal support of the label. I had it in my head that there would be a reasonable amount of people who post on this forum who would be supportive of our aim to bring high quality music by people of any nationality into the field of vision of the record buying public. Looking at this thread, however, it seems not.

Anna Tooth
Label Manager

Keep up the good work.

Bob.

As I understand it, the Naim label is small, run by enthusiasts and is presumably run on a pretty limited budget. The commercial logic of catering for any and all tastes is simply not there. As to the criticism of the artists in each genre - well, just like hi-fi, its all subjective isn't it. If you don't like the music don't buy it.

I've got to say that I've been delighted with what I've bought so far but don't expect to enjoy every CD on the label (the 'samplers' have been an extremely useful and inexpensive way of helping me decide what and what not to buy).

Anna, it's nice to see that Naim are open to recommendation - so guys, let's be more positive, please.

Dave

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Technically he's got it: at least, Martin Taylor seems to think so, and I won't argue with his opinion on guitar technique!

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Personally I think Forcione is MUCH more emotive than Martin Taylor, who I like but find a little too sterile at times. Forcione has flamboyant technique, but coupled with a sense of emotional expression that's often lacking in supposedly 'talented' musicians.

Having seen Forcione live he expresses himself superbly through his playing, the fact that he also has the technique too is a bonus.

As for the rest of the Naim label output, the Forcione / Sciubba album has songs to die for, Thea Gilmore is excellent, Foo Foo and the boy produce some great, often funny, songs that rasie a smile and aren't in the least 'HiFi' dem discs, as far as I'm concerned. Fred Simon's album was also great, once I'd got into it.

Naim are a small label, with limited resources, but have captured and made available some great talents, who we may not have seen via other routes.

Carry on Anna, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Andy.

P.S. A few more of your other 'select' choices would be nice e.g. Lemonjelly KY - I'd never have bought that album without your bringing it to my attention, I love it.

cheers

Nigel

Overall I find the Naim Label excellent and the samplers are a great help.

Thea Gilmore's CD is excellent and it helped put her on the map.

Patrick Nolands piano music is superb and I listen to one of them at least once a week.

Fred Simons stuff is nice background listening and I would like some more from him.

I think Anna has succeeded in bringing a wider range of music from a relatively unknown set of unknown musicians to the fore, and it is inevetable that you will not like everyone.

I have about 15 of the Naim labels and have never regretted buying a single one.

I must admit that I have a preference for the softer jazz stuff, so that is a delicate hint.

If nothing else, the standard of recording is always good.

Regards

Mick

PS....Note to Anna...don't take the criticism to hard, I get critised every day of the week ( too hard on suppliers or too soft etc..you can never please them all) and I am still around with a skin like a rhino...you are doing a good job so carry on.

While I profess a complete ignorance of the economics of such projects, I would think that performers from the world of the folk style singer/songwriters might offer Naim some interesting opportunities. Minimally processed recordings are often a wonderful way to capture artists that normally play solo acoustic, as many folk performers do. Many of the major labels have dropped suberb performers with followings such as Bruce Cockburn, Richard Thompson, etc. While these people may not be at all affordable, similar players in the British folk scene might be possible. As many of these people will record in a larger "folk/rock" style, but tour with little or no accompaniement, it would be interesting to try to beautifully capture these types of performances.

[This message was edited by bdnyc on SATURDAY 09 March 2002 at 19:24.]

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Fred Simons stuff is nice background listening and I would like some more from him.

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Mick, while I am grateful that you would like to hear more from me, I'm a little concerned that you may not have heard what is already there. With all due respect, the phrase "background listening" is an oxymoron, and although I am sure you didn't intend it as such, it's not exactly a compliment in my book.

You see, I think that in order to truly listen, music cannot be in the background. Sure, there are times when it's perfectly appropriate for music to be relegated to the background, but if this is your only experience of my music then I am disappointed.

I actually would prefer (albeit without relish) someone really giving it their full attention and then honestly not digging it than to be kept in the background, even if considered "nice."

I recommend trying at least one listen fairly loud, with absolutely no outside distractions if at all possible.

I am sure Mick meant no offense by his remark even so you appear offended by it.

Your comments raise an interesting issue. My view is that it is for the listener to decide how to play music, not for the artist to dictate how it should be played - reminiscent of the "play loud" exhortations on rock vinyl.

"Background listening" is in my view no more of an oxymoron that "seroius listening" - now I am going to play some Fred Simon so stop what you are doing and sit down and give it a serious listen!

I, and I am sure many people, play music whilst doing other things and I see nothing wrong with that. Certainly I can and do play background music loud and can appreciate its qualities whilst also doing other things at the same time.

If you feel that this is not taking you as seriously as you think you derserve, then that might be construed as arrogance, and I am sure that was not what you meant to convey.

cheers

Nigel

If I think something is rubbish, I will say so, and believe I play your stuff about once a week, so it's good.

I am spending more time working from home on the PC for reasons of confidentiality and I find that your music sounds great as a background when I am working and also as a listening thing when I take a tea break or what ever.

Your stuff is in my top 25 played CDs. You aint no Sarah Brightman, but your pretty good.

Regards

Mick

(Fred's Cd is a perfect example of this and I now listen to and most importantly enjoy it).

I have purchased a couple of cd's and played them as soon as I arrived home,they were of the "jazz" veriaty,which for me is never an easy style to get into,and consiquently,they never made it all the way through.

For me,the acclimatisation process is almost manditory on Jazz.

Another use for "background" music is to set an appropriate ambience when entertaining guests at dinner,whereas louder than background would be intrusive upon the evening.

Music sets the mood.

Regards

Chris

No offense at all to Mick or Nigel, but I fully understand Fred's reaction to the strange frase "background music". It's one of those awkward brushes between artist and audience.

True, once your works are reproduced and sold you've lost control of the way people listen to your stuff. Nonetheless you want attention. Arrogant? Think of all the work and thought that's been put into those tracks.

A certain amount of arrogance comes with the territory. Every artist has to have a measure of arrogance to want to add something to the existing corpus of music, pictures etc etc.

Any sane person would get a day job.

However the good news is Mick is listening to Fred's disc a lot. As Chris remarks, it is a way to familiarize oneself with the music.

Keep up the good work, Fred!

Herman

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Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
Fred

I am sure Mick meant no offense by his remark even so you appear offended by it.

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Hi Nigel,

I think that I was clear to state that I was sure that Mick intended no offense.

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Your comments raise an interesting issue. My view is that it is for the listener to decide how to play music, not for the artist to dictate how it should be played - reminiscent of the "play loud" exhortations on rock vinyl.

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I'd never dictate, just suggest. As far as that goes, yes, I can hope that people would be interested enough in the music to give it their full attention at least once. I don't see that as an unreasonable wish.

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"Background listening" is in my view no more of an oxymoron that "seroius listening" - now I am going to play some Fred Simon so stop what you are doing and sit down and give it a serious listen!

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Again, I think I was was very clear to state that I never expect anyone to stop everything else while listening every time, but that it might be a good idea to have the focused, concentrated listening experience at least once.

Consider this: do we talk, watch TV, wash the dishes while reading a book? Is it unreasonable to hope that the same full attention be given to music at least once in a while?

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I, and I am sure many people, play music whilst doing other things and I see nothing wrong with that. Certainly I can and do play background music loud and can appreciate its qualities whilst also doing other things at the same time.

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As I said, I have absolutely no problem with this at all, I do it myself all the time. I just wanted to clarify that when one does this, however, one should not be misled to think that they are actually listening on the deepest possible level to every note as it goes by. This is not at all to say that nothing can be gained from more casual listening, but that a musical experience will undoubtedly be enhanced by focused, foreground listening.

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If you feel that this is not taking you as seriously as you think you derserve, then that might be construed as arrogance, and I am sure that was not what you meant to convey.

cheers

Nigel

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Arrogance is not at all what I intended, although it may be difficult to avoid that appearance, especially via written words.

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Fred

If I think something is rubbish, I will say so, and believe I play your stuff about once a week, so it's good.

I am spending more time working from home on the PC for reasons of confidentiality and I find that your music sounds great as a background when I am working and also as a listening thing when I take a tea break or what ever.

Your stuff is in my top 25 played CDs. You aint no Sarah Brightman, but your pretty good.

Regards

Mick

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Mick, I never inferred that you thought my music was rubbish, and I'm grateful that you like it.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone playing my music in the background; as I've said, I play music in the background all the time. But your description "Fred Simon's stuff is nice background listening" gave me the impression that that was the beginning and end of your experience with my music; if that's not the case then I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

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Originally posted by Chris Brandon:
... (Fred's Cd is a perfect example of this and I now listen to and most importantly enjoy it) ... Another use for "background" music is to set an appropriate ambience when entertaining guests at dinner,whereas louder than background would be intrusive upon the evening.

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Chris, I'm glad you're enjoying my album. Thanks.

I realize I'm repeating myself now, but it's fine with me if folks play my music at dinner. I do it myself, although frequently if the music is interesting I find it hard to ignore and converse with guests.

My only concern is that many people, possibly even the majority of all music consumers (although probably not many folks here), never give music their absolute full attention.

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Originally posted by herm:
_No Arrogance, No Art_

No offense at all to Mick or Nigel, but I fully understand Fred's reaction to the strange frase "background music". It's one of those awkward brushes between artist and audience.

True, once your works are reproduced and sold you've lost control of the way people listen to your stuff. Nonetheless you want attention. Arrogant? Think of all the work and thought that's been put into those tracks.

A certain amount of arrogance comes with the territory. Every artist has to have a measure of arrogance to want to add something to the existing corpus of music, pictures etc etc.

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This is all true, and well said. To expand: especially when listening to music of any degree of complexity, it's instructive to keep in mind that when the musicians made the music, they were giving their fully focused attention. If one wants to reap every last bit of goodness from what they created, it's only fair to give it equal concentration.

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Any sane person would get a day job.

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It should be noted that I've never had a day job in my life.

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Keep up the good work, Fred!

Herman

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Thanks, Herman.

Keep up the good work.

Tim