"The Hi-Fi+ Show" (Manchester Airport Hilton)

Sorry to hear about your B&E.

quote:

---

At least I'm fully insured.

---

Thank f*ck someone convinced you to get insurance.

Joe

Bob.

Not wishing to sound pessimistic, but be careful for the next few months. A general pattern for these twats is to see what is available in your flat, then come back again. A house near me was brokem into 5 times in 1 year.
I would just hide a few of your best items.

Good idea about the hammer though

This will be the first time I have disagreed with you.
I was at the dem of Music works leads v Naim leads.
I have to say that I wasn't impressed when they put their leads on. First impression was " yeah it does sound a little clearer in some parts, but overall it just left the music less satisfying".
I go into these comparison tests totally open minded.
I havn't seen anyones messages about these leads, but by the sounds of it, everyones seems to be bored with the subject.
You say that you heard the Audio Councel dem and compared it to the Music Works, but I don't really think that was a fare comparison as the Music works set-up was considerably more expensive with a 52.

Ali

"count.d" is indeed correct in the need to be more cautious in the next few months.

Theives have a habbit of re-visitting a property after a few months,once the insurance have replaced any removed items and the owner has "relaxed" a little.

Insurance and vigilance is a good thing (along with a suitable legnth of 3"x2" or similar )

Regards

Chris

Alex

(Still a bloody nuisance of course - Sorry)

i actually find it very re-assuring that naim do actually try out these various accessories before they form an opinion and share it with us.

don't you???

enjoy

ken

quote:

---

Fair enough if you didn't get to the show. My point was that if you were at that dem then the difference was so OBVIOUS that you'd have been deaf not to have came to the conclusion that the MW leads were clearly much more musical.

---

Yes but your assertion previously was that anyone who didn't agree with your view of the benefits to this obvious difference between the Naim and MW leads "needed their head examined". You now assert that the difference makes the leads "more musical" and we must be deaf not to agree.

The point the Shetlandpony makes is that whilst many may agree there is a difference, it is sheer arrogance on your part to suggest that your interpretation of the difference, and what it makes to your preception of the music played, is the correct and only view.

That's the difference between subjectivity and objectivity ...

Paul

Where "below"?

Timo

Dodn't worry - you didn't offend me. But neither did you "merely state how easily identifiable the difference were". What you said implied that the differences led to only one possible conclusion: the one that you reached, and that any other conclusion would be as a result of the deafness or lack of critical faculties of the dissenter.

And your analogy of the difference between a CD5 and and CDSII is specious. Within a single brand, one would assume that most manufacturers more expensive efforts would sound "better". To a certain extent that sound difference will be obvious, and most, if not all, would agree.

However here we are comparing a CD5 and, say, a CD17. Yes there will be differences, most will hear them. Some will prefer the sound of one, some the sound of the other. That subjectivism. That's why some like Mana, some QS and some milk crates.

Your reviews are interesting. All I'm asking is that you remember they are subjective reviews, and that others will disagree. Less "soap box" oratory may make your views seem less arrogant and pompous. That's all!

I use DNM cable for everything - mains leads, spur(s), interconnects, speakers. Seems to work rather well.

Would Naim make me a longer Burndy or is it that length for a reason?

I have loads of retoration/conservation products to try here; doesn't mean I like what they do or endorse them, but as Ken says, one should be well informed in your particular field.

Alex

I too attended the demonstration conducted by Larry and his disciples and would have to say that I would class the system as the worst sounding Naim demonstration at the show. That is however my opinion but seems to be supported by a few others. When I questioned the effect the leads were having I was told that I was the only person all weekend that had raised the points, but it now seems that it may have been a case of a silent minority or possibly even majority.

I used M/works leads at home for a short while and found returning to the standard leads to be quite enlightening. Having experienced the full Audio Works dem' this weekend has given me an insight into the way the shop wants to take it's sound, it is however not a way that many people wish to persue or the way that Naim themselves would wish to go. This was highlighted by the superior sound from the Naim main dem' on fraim and the sudsequent other Naim dem's.

To both myself and my partner, the system seemed to have some very serious flaws which neither Larry or Steve seemed perturb about. I have to say again that this is only my view point, but I can fully understand why Naim seem less certain to accept what is in your opinion a no-brainer.

If the Larry rig does it for you then thats fine, but you may just have to accept that not everybody else thinks so. This does not mean that they are deaf, rather that they have a different set of priorities, Naim included. Horses for courses one might say.

Regards,

Ian.

You said you weren't going to comment on this debate anymore.

Regarding Naims usage of musicworks blocks in the factory BTW.....the last time I looked in the reception area there (August 2001) the system was plugged into the wall with three standard Naim IEC leads going into a single Crabtree. I never checked or asked if a fuse was inserted in the plug. Wouldn't have wanted to've appeared rude. Y'know how 'tis.

P.

Firstly can you express some specualtive and inevitably subjective views about Music Works so I can point out why you are wrong.

Secondly, remember that when you state that your opinion was different to mine and not everyone agrees with me that this is only your opinion.

Lastly, a pedantic restement of my first point with an added 'quote' from your post to indicate that I think you are really some kind of idiot.

Unbelievably patronising dismissal of your views.

Condescendingly,
Matthew

[This message was edited by Matthew Robinson on TUESDAY 20 November 2001 at 23:35.]

I am pleased to see that my comments on Larry's system have not been met with a barage, unlike the evangelical rants that were thrust upon both myself and my partner when commenting on issues that I found to be relevant on Sunday afternoon( I must however point out that this was not Larry, but rather another disgruntled acolyte).

I feel that I must reiterate my position that my opinions are based upon my experience of many years of living with a Naim hifi and are not meant to discredit or call into question anybody else's
expectations of a Naim system. My opinions are based on what I would expect.

In general I felt that the mix of both the Music Works mains products and Q/spire Referance marked a stark departure from what I considered to be at the heart of a Naim system.

The sound that I heard did not time in an engaging and coherent manner. The natural musical flow as the piece progressed to me did not exist. All of these attributes were to me very apparent in all of the other Naim dem's. The one thing that appeared to lack most of all was any sense of expression or emotion. It was as if the system had lost it's soul and it's passion. The addition of the leads seemed to take this even further.

Obviously this is only my opinion, and many people seem to be very happy with their system fully "Larryed" and I am glad to see that they have reached their goal. A lot of my comments will not make any sense to them as they feel that their system already has the attributes that I feel are lacking.

Regards,

Ian.

Ian.

Thomas

Manchester was the first show I have attended, and I went with two goals in mind, to see the Quadraspire dem and listen to the Allaes.

I was impressed by the Q4 reference, and placed my order this morning. The Allaes were promising, but in general I found the sound in the Naim room dissapointing, especially through the NBLs.

The Musicworks demo was the surprise of the show for me. Larry used an Ella Fitzgerald track for the dem, and after the Musicworks leads were installed I felt that there was a reduction in background noise, a general improvement in clarity, and far more emotion and expression in her voice. I generally felt more 'moved' by the modded system, and for me it was one of the best sounds at the show.

What seems strange is that this is totally opposite to what you heard, however I'm not going to pontificate as to who is right, as there is no right or wrong in such a subjective matter.
If there was one true path to enlightenment then there would be no need for the many diverse manufacturers represented at the show.

Perhaps the most amazing thing to me is that something so apparently innocuous as a mains lead can have such a dramatic effect and create polarised reactions to the changes effected to a multi thousand pound system.

Regards,
Neville

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

When I can be bothered to--perhaps over the holiday period--I'll dig out the hyra again from the loft and try the whole experiment again. Meanwhile, though, I'm really enjoying what I'm hearing from the CDS11/52/135s powered up with MW leads and block.

Stallion, I agree about most power conditioners, but the Trichord ones really are different, they don't sit on the music like stuff from Kimber/Russ Andrews--all his leads, purifiers, etc make Naim gear really sluggish and boring. The effect of the Kimber stuff was well reviewed by Roy Gregory in an article on mains in hifi+ sometime ago, where he also came down heavily in favour of the MWorks leads and block compared both to Kimber and if I remember correctly, the ordinary Naim lead as well.

Back to listening to some great sounds rather than staring at this screen!

Al

...and, by the wall of the room, lots of parcels partly ripped open revealing Rega cartons inside...

At least it wasn't as mad as their autumnal look, having to pay for new carpets soiled by leaves and twigs.

By the way, who's the guy I met on the Saturday in the Living Voice Room with a Naim system and Keilidh/Kaber loudspeakers? He's considering Living Voice, SBLs or JM Lab, I had the impression he's on the forum.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Dev

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;