Comparing SN DAC to Benchmark DAC1?

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Yes the Benchmark is better.

I would be interested to know as well. Btw, you can of course take munch's opinion as a pinch of salt.

the SN dac i superb. i have one and its allot better than most make it out to be. most comments about the dac come from people who dont own an SN which puzzles me alittle. its way way better than the CA dac. and from my experience in dacs, its within the £700/1000 price range of a stand alone unit

quote:

Originally posted by munch:

quote:

Originally posted by QTT:

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Yes the Benchmark is better.

I would be interested to know as well. Btw, you can of course take munch's opinion as a pinch of salt.

You can take my opinion how you want, but the Benchmark his miles better and its not just me that thinks so.
The dac in the Snait is just an added bonus .
Naim have a Dac now so it will be worth hearing that when it hits the streets.
I also think the little Cambridge Dac is better.

You say that NAIM has a DAC out soon, I have never heard any info about this before. Do know for sure and any idea when it will hit the market?

I prefer the SN DAC to any of the under $2k units that I've listened to. Tried the DAC-1 a couple times and some others I thought better but always favored the Naim. With the outboard DACs, I was looking for a stand alone to sell and didn't love them enough to bother. Don't let my or another opinion be the force that guides you. Give them a listen and decide for yourself. There's a bit of resentment on this forum in both directions regarding the SN DAC so you'll find a wide divergence of opinion.

If Naim is to be believed over a poster without a clue to their intent, the DAC in the SN is far from an afterthought. Not liking it is fine but ascribing intent is lunacy. Unless it's been used from the SN tape out, it hasn't even been heard as just a DAC. Chooses reclocking depending on the source quality. Wide or narrow reception on frequency. 4 dig ins that can be assigned to different inputs. Same DAC chip as an HDX. Sounds like a bit of forethought to me. Afterthought? If it was, I really feel sorry for the other guys that are really trying and not just phoning it in like Naim supposedly did, LOL. Of course that's only my opinion.

I bet the Naim DAC shows well vs. most of the comparably priced DAC units. There is nothing more sensitive to power supply unless it is a turntable.

One observation I would make is that putting a DAC in an integrated amp is like putting a GPS or DVD in a car. GPS and DAC technology seem to be advancing much faster than auto and audio technology. Many of us are impressing our friends with Naim gear that is 10 years old or older. The GPS is my car is a pale shadow of my Garmin unit because of the rapidly evolving GPS life cycle. I fear my Naim DAC or DAC module will be obsolescent in 5 years while the rest of my SuperNait is still kicking ass.

skip IMHO dac technology as reached a resonable level as to be quite stable for the next 5-10 years. the level of perfection within modern chipsets is quite remarkable. the power supply and implimantations are where most differences are within designs, i have had many many dacs since around 1998 i gave up vinyl over 12 years ago. been through quite a few brands of dacs and CDPs from micromega, meridian, the real audiolab, pink triangle, DPA, cyrus, wadia, and more recently a few amps with builtin DACs like brystons B100sst, cyrus dac-XP with mono-Xs, MF A1008. and these are just the few i can recall without thinking to hard, and scaring my wallet.

quote:

I fear my Naim DAC or DAC module will be obsolescent in 5 years while the rest of my SuperNait is still kicking ass.

Because it will require a software update to read those newfangled bits?

Seriously–I'm kinda wishing that all of the preamps and integrated amps had a basic built-in DAC of some sort, considering how bad the output stages are of many digital devices...but look at this trend:

"n-DAC" - DAC with (at least?) five inputs

NaimUniti - built-in DAC with five inputs

NaimNet NNP01 and NNP02 - built-in (resampling) DAC with two inputs

SUPERNAIT - built-in DAC with five inputs

n-Vi - built-in DAC with three inputs

AV2 - built-in DAC with four inputs

I'd say it's a safe bet that we'll see more products with digital inputs, rather than not.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
I prefer the SN DAC to any of the under $2k units that I've listened to. Tried the DAC-1 a couple times and some others I thought better but always favored the Naim. With the outboard DACs, I was looking for a stand alone to sell and didn't love them enough to bother. Don't let my or another opinion be the force that guides you. Give them a listen and decide for yourself. There's a bit of resentment on this forum in both directions regarding the SN DAC so you'll find a wide divergence of opinion.

If Naim is to be believed over a poster without a clue to their intent, the DAC in the SN is far from an afterthought. Not liking it is fine but ascribing intent is lunacy. Unless it's been used from the SN tape out, it hasn't even been heard as just a DAC. Chooses reclocking depending on the source quality. Wide or narrow reception on frequency. 4 dig ins that can be assigned to different inputs. Same DAC chip as an HDX. Sounds like a bit of forethought to me. Afterthought? If it was, I really feel sorry for the other guys that are really trying and not just phoning it in like Naim supposedly did, LOL. Of course that's only my opinion.

Hi JS

I would be interested in how you think the SN DAC sound in comparison with the DAC in the AV2?

Thanks Jay

Better in terms of result but I haven't listened to the AV2 as just a DAC without the pre and I also don't know if they've done anything outside of the processor chip for 2 channel use. I've just never checked but do know that I prefer the SN in a 2 ch pre configuration.

hifinerd,

Benchie is ok. It reminded me of Wadia CD player I once had. ( stark is the word )

It had a decent frequency extensions and not a bad DAC.

The trouble was that it didn't sound like a Naim CD player ( I haven't had a SuperNait directly against it but listened against CDS3 and CDX plus XPS2/555PS.

A DAC inside the SuperNait was the first DAC that sounded like the Naim sound I love. I'm not gonna claim it's end all, but it sure had that familiar voice.

quote:

Benchie is ok.

LOL @ kuma

IMV that's a bit like saying Manchester United is an OK soccer team, or Lewis Hamilton is an OK driver.

I've got a 'Benchie' and I wouldn't go back to my CDX/CDPS if it was handed back for free.

Mr Tibbs

quote:

IMV that's a bit like saying Manchester United is an OK soccer team

Steady on - try to keep a sense of realism in these discussions. Fulham are an OK team though.

I heard a MacBook in to the SN and wasn't overwhelmed - much preferred the CD player into same. However, I've yet to hear a computer audio set-up that impressed - I've always liked traditional vinyl or CD better. That may, of course, change when I hear the new Naim DACs.

Beside which, according to the Gadget Show, MP3 is better anyways?

ATB Rotf

quote:

Steady on - try to keep a sense of realism in these discussions. Fulham are an OK team though.

quote:

I heard a MacBook in to the SN and wasn't overwhelmed - much preferred the CD player into same. However, I've yet to hear a computer audio set-up that impressed - I've always liked traditional vinyl or CD better. That may, of course, change when I hear the new Naim DACs.

The DAC in the SN is (despite the posts above) to blame for that IMO. You can't expect too much from a DAC that's been included in an amp to give some added flexibility.

Try getting a demo of a 'Benchie' or 'that other DAC' with a macbook as digital source. Hearing that was an epiphany for me - like right there and then I understood what all the fuss was about. CD players have had their day!

Regards

Mr Tibbs

!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Tibbs:
CD players have had their day!

Absolutely - such a shame that some people cannot accept progress and insist on living in the past. All the same, it's their right, and their loss. It's a free country, after all.

And I too wouldn't accept my CDS3 if it was offered back to me for free. I've absolutely no use for it these days - I couldn't even justify the space for it.

I just realized I own 5 Dacs, but no Compact Disc player .......love my LP12 though

Hi
I have heard the SN DAC with different transports and PC's, compared it to CD5x and a Rotel CDP. At my dealers shop I heard in some other applications. I have never heard the SN DAC better than a budget CDP, and no where near the CD5x. I am really pusseled that people sold CD2x etc. for SN DAC, I would like to do the same, what am I doing wrong to make it sing? Is the digital source very important or?

/BMJ

I love the sound of my "other DAC" but after the latest upgrade to my LP12 I have to say that I love the music from it even more. So vinyl is still #1 in my book but IMV computer audio has definitely raised the bar where digital replay is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Tibbs:

Try getting a demo of a 'Benchie' or 'that other DAC' with a macbook as digital source. Hearing that was an epiphany for me - like right there and then I understood what all the fuss was about. CD players have had their day!

Regards

Mr Tibbs

Hi - I've not heard the Benchmark, it was the other DAC I heard, but preferred the sound of the Naim CDPs - in fact I'd go as far to say I didn't like the sound I head from the other DAC - perhaps, it wasn't set-up correctly, but it didn't matter I was listening out of curiosity rather than an intention to buy (it was a comparative demo I attended).

I will get a DAC when the Naim nDAC is available to play downloaded music: not really interested in ripping CDs when I can just play them - unless the nDAC does something magical to them. I'll probably get a NaimUniti for my office: I like the idea that it can play music from a memory stick - so it makes a high quality solid state player a reality: of course, I've got to audition it first.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:
... a shame that some people cannot accept progress and insist on living in the past.

Why? What's wrong with living in the past?



I have a copy of this on CD - sounds great.

ATB Rotf

Avole, Rotf, have you tried the one's that Steve Hoffman remasterd? ( DCC gold cd's ) they are a bit hard to find but his job on "Living in the Past" " Aqualung " and "Original Masters" I find much much better than the newer remasters. Worth seeking out if you are a fan. ( esp Living in the past )

here is a very funny 2 part clip of Steve describing a " small " problem with the original master tape for the track " Aqualung"

http://www.eqfuentes.com/englishsite/contentseng/techno...anandjethrotull.html

and part 2

http://www.eqfuentes.com/englishsite/contentseng/techno...lungtapetrouble.html

enjoy

and to keep this somewhat on topic, ... I like Dacs.

cheers

quote:

Originally posted by haroldbudd:

and to keep this somewhat on topic, ... I like Dacs.

cheers

Which are the 5 that you own?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Tibbs:
IMV that's a bit like saying Manchester United is an OK soccer team, or Lewis Hamilton is an OK driver.

I've got a 'Benchie' and I wouldn't go back to my CDX/CDPS if it was handed back for free.

A friend who uses the Benchie claims it's great for him because he applies a slight EQ on audio signal afterwards and prefer to start with something more *neutral*.

A CDX or any Naim players have their own flavouring which I don't mind at all.

quote:

A friend who uses the Benchie claims it's great for him because he applies a slight EQ on audio signal afterwards and prefer to start with something more *neutral*.

I'm not averse to applying a spot of EQ after my BM DAC as well -- courtesy of my olive Naim amps (a 102/250 is not exactly 'neutral' after all). Works for me!

Mr Tibbs

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:

quote:

Originally posted by haroldbudd:

and to keep this somewhat on topic, ... I like Dacs.

cheers

Which are the 5 that you own?

Thanks.

Hi Jazzfan,

1) Metric Halo ULN2 .... stunning sound, my fave, pricey but loaded with features, top AD and DA and pristine pre's
2) Apogee Duet ..... portable,bus powered for easy location recording, great for price
3) Focusrite Saffire ..... soon to be sold, not bad at all, but do not need it, slightly bettered by the Apogee
4) " The Beresford " ... had to try it, silly cheap and ugly but good boogie factor, surprisingly good for price, but can easily be bettered , leaving it with girlfriend when I move to Berlin

5) the Built in Dac in my MacBook Pro .... no comment

as you can see, I have to kill two birds with one stone as I need AD as well as DA for studio stuff, ( I heard the makers of " that other Dac " also make a matching AD unit that is quite good.....hmmmmmm. I will try the Naim 'NADAC' when it comes out, should be very interesting

I could give more detailed sonic info on each if you like, but maybe we should start another thread for that !

Dacs are like Cartridges, a lot depends on Personal taste and what you are using it with. Tried the Benchmark for a few days, really great detail but found it lacked ummm body? punch? involvement maybe.....but if it works great for someone else in their system, great, I can see that easily.

I only have one Cart,.... for now anyway


cheers

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about either the Metric Halo or Focusrite before - there seems to be a huge range of alternatives out there where DACs are concerned. I'm using the "other DAC" and am very happy with it, but also keen to find out more about what else is available.