More DVD Madness

Should work fine like that.
All this stuff is round earth IMhO, all about artificial imaging, booming and crashing, etc. I may be completely missing the point here, so flame away.
I've heard several really nice setups at my local dealer, some with Naim electronics everywhere. It sounded and looked nice, but it just didn't appeal to me enough to spend that kind of cash.
If this is about creating the experience in the theater, why not just get a huge Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theater, plonk it in front of the TV and put some cheesy side and rear speakers around you. Don't forget the gum and popcorn on the floor...
I really do enjoy watching movies on my home "system" (though it is miles from "good" by the standards on this board). Entertaining and much easier than getting a sitter for the kids, etc.
If I want to hear music, I listen to my Linn/Naim system.
David

The ideal solution is a Yamaha DSP-E800. It does the processing (inc. DTS) and has built in power amps for the rear and centre channel and leaves the main front channel for your existing hi-fi. You then just need a pair of rear speakers with a similar voicing/balance to your SBLs (I use Rega Kytes which you should be able to find for <£80) and optionally a centre channel speaker.

Richer Sounds has them for £329 but ISTR paying more like £250 on Tottenham Court Rd. See http://www.richersounds.com/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=202028

Also if you put E800 into the forum search you'll find quite a bit on the subject.

AFAICT that's the cheapest you can do it for.

Matthew

Thanks for that, its all I need to know.

I realise that its a bit round earth, but its worth bearing in mind I am interested in hearing the funky helicopters in minority report as apposed to ambience in a rock concert.

cheers.

I'm sure I've had this discussion about the validity of the E800 somewhere else.

Please be aware that the E800 is rather getting on a bit now, and chances are the newer decoding chips will do a better job.

Be aware that over Xmas I added a Marantz SR4300 av amp. Apart from the fact that it was only £230 from Richers, it also adds the following functionality to that of the E800:
- Six channels of amplification (I know the front two are probably unnecessary, but if you ever decided to have your music in one room, and movies in another, would save you needing to buy a new amp).
- Dolby Pro Logic 2. And yes it is better than basic dolby pro logic.
- Full 5.1 channel ins and 6.1 channel pre outs
- A whole bunch of other "surround sound" effects that are frankly pretty pointless, but maybe your kids will like playing with them.

I guess the fact that I bought one shows my view on whether to go for a 3 channel add on processor or a full 6 channel amp.

quote:

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
The ideal solution is a Yamaha DSP-E800. It does the processing (inc. DTS) and has built in power amps for the rear and centre channel and leaves the main front channel for your existing hi-fi. You then just need a pair of rear speakers with a similar voicing/balance to your SBLs (I use Rega Kytes which you should be able to find for <£80) and optionally a centre channel speaker.

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Matthew/Mr_Sukebe
Thanks for this information.
Are all the advantages now with systems like the Marantz SR4300 (over the Yahama E800) or are their benefits of going with the E800? Can I use my Naim amp with the Marantz? Sorry I am a complete beginner when it comes to AV.
Terry

quote:

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Film surround sound is not "round earth"; in a film you may want a sound to come from behind you.

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It depends on what kind of music you're listening to... In film, wouldn't you want a panoramic view instead of staring at the little box in front of you? If all the video clues are on the screen, why do you need the audio clues coming from behind? Why not from above too? Below? Depends on the intent of the directors and producers, I guess.
Of course, it is all to immerse the viewer in the movie, I get that.
Source first is an interesting concept for video. Not sure I'm qualified to profess any serious suggestions on how to get the best out of it, but it seems that there are many more variables with the room, matching speakers and amplifiers, etc. etc. when you're dealing with 5 channels.
I need to get a processor too, it just won't go well in the video install we currently have.
Have fun!
David

"If I want to hear music, I listen to my Linn/Naim system."

I'm about as flat earth as they come but a proper 5.1 Home Theatre is pretty damn entertaining for movies as well as concert videos. I've had my setup for about a month now and I'm pretty hooked on the whole thing. I think I've accumulated a couple dozen concert videos and I find them very musical and engaging.

I think there is a lot of care being put into the Concert DVD's being released regarding the sound. The Roger Waters and David Gilmour DVD's are superb to name a couple the stand out.

I'm using a Rotel RDV-1080 DVD player, a Rotel RSX-1055 A/V receiver, Linn Tukans for front R/L, Paradigm CC-370 for center and Paradigm Atoms for the Surround.

Now THAT I'd like to see/hear!
David

Gary,

I have a yamaha AV amp with pre-outs as well.

I tested it with the preouts into the 42.5 but it didn't sound as good as running stereo straight from the dvd into the 42.5. Also not having unity inputs for the 42.5 is a bit of a pain. Without the unity inputs you end up with two volume controls.

Now the Av and stereos are in different rooms and are not connected. I did find that using proper hifi speakers makes a huge difference. I replaced my old jbl av speakers with ELAs and it makes the AV kit quite audible. I am saving for a senta centre speaker to get rid of the last jbl.

I did find that the centre speaker is propably the most important speaker for movies as all the dialog comes through the centre. To test center speakers for clarity you should take some movies with an average sound track to the hifi shop for a listen. eg Brians mother in "Life of Brian" is pretty incomprehensible on most av speakers but the sentas handled it well.

cheers
Gus

[QUOTE]Originally posted by garyi:

Supposing I picked up said processor (naim is out of the question BTW), could I run the rears from the processor and the fronts from the naim kit?

If this is possible how!

QUOTE]

I am running this sort of setup. I came to Naim from a Denon AVR3802 which has both 6.1 analog IN RCA's and 6.1 RCA PRE-OUTS.

The Front pair of channels go from the Front PRE-OUTs thru' my NAC112 A/V input which can be set for unity gain (no amplification added to signal) then into a 150 and out to the front speaker pair.

The rest of the channels are driven from the power amps inside the Denon and since the Denon master volume controls all channels the DSP processors for DOLBY and DTS can be used to "balance" the individual speakers for both volume and a little thing called "time delay" which is there to compensate for differences in distance between your ears and different speakers in the setup.

There is one big warning here. WATCH OUT FOR EARTHLOOPS resulting from all the different signal input and output choices. You can get a glorious level of hum at the A/V input on the NAIM, which is actually the subject of some investigation by NAIM right now. ( it is not a problem on the AV2 because there is a removable link in the circuit design which cures the problem for those that can afford the AV2-NOT ME!)

Anyway that's how it works. So as long as you get a surround amplifier with 5.1 (or 6.1) pre-outs you should be able to do it.
The 5.1 analog "in" connections are worth having in case you want to try out SACD or DVD Audio which currently can only be played thru' these inputs.

Good luck

Geoff

Wow! I do have a lot to learn about this stuff. I have obviously ignored it too long.

If I bought a Yamaha DSP-E800 and a DVD player (Toshiba 220e) can I run the front channels through my Naim system without modification (eg using the Tape or AUX inputs on the Nac82), and get some matching speakers for other channels and have them powered by the Yamaha.

I have a CDX/82/250.

Terry

"If I bought a Yamaha DSP-E800 and a DVD player (Toshiba 220e) can I run the front channels through my Naim system without modification (eg using the Tape or AUX inputs on the Nac82), and get some matching speakers for other channels and have them powered by the Yamaha"

Erm, yes. That's exactly what its for.

About the Unity Gain / volume thing -- without unity gain you just calibrate the system as normal with the Naim volume in some easily remembered position (say 12 o'clock). Then whenever you listen to a film you just set the volume back to this known position and everything works of the single AV preamp's volume control as usual.

Matthew

Just would like to agree with much of the above.

Almost any AV amp will have Pre-outs that you can feed into your naim Pre. I would go for something like the Marantz mentioned above rather than the E-800 (?), it has many more features. It you don't have Unity Gain you just balance the sound using a predetermined volume position on your Naim. I use 9:00 on my 82 using the VCR labeled input. It all warks pretty well and I have no earth loop/hum problems.

For surround speakers I just got a couple of sets of cheap Kef coda 1's. The centre speaker is the most important as it take 70-80% of the sound. However you will find a half decent subwoofer makes all the difference. Don't use it for music though.

Good luck

Greeny/Matthew

Thanks for your help. I am climbing a steep learning curve. I ignored all this stuff until a couple of days ago and so have lots to learn.

Phoned up Richer Sounds to ask about price of E800 and was told that it has been replaced by DSP AX620. Anyone know anything about this? I hope to buy DVD player plus other box (Procesor/Amp) tomorow based on recommendations.

Terry

Do these processors (the Yamaha and the Marantz) offer a "phantom" centre channel? When I had a Yamaha surround settup years ago, I preferred the phantom centre to adding a centre channel speaker. Yes - vocals will be off-centre for folks sitting on the sides, but we sit in the middle most of the time and the sound was better integrated and vocals had the correct 'scale' compared to the other sounds.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Terry

Why not just start with a DVD player. A whole lot of stuff will be a bit daunting all at once.

I bought a Toshiba 220E for a Christmas pressie for someone just b4 Xmas for £119 from Amazon (multi region etc).

There are lots of Cheapish AV processors around. You might want to check for facilities like Dobly Pro Logic 2. DTS-ES and DD-EX. DOn't worry about DSP Modes (like Hall, Arena etc) these tend not to be used by most people.

Most AV processors will do a phantom centre. but remember to do this it must process the distinct centre channel and matrix it to the front L+R speakers.

You should take a look at www.avforums.com There are lots of opinions here and some good knowledge, though usual warnings apply. Most people are Denon lovers and aspire to Tag McClaren ownership, so be aware of this.

Bear in mind to add a full AV system to a current HiFi you need:

DVD Player
Centre Speaker
AV Amp (or processor + other amps)
Suround spekers (2,3 or 4)
Subwoofer.
Lots of interconnects/speaker wire etc

This is a lot of equipment (and £) to add in one go.

I am talking dirty cheap though, the DVD cost 100 uid, I figure about that or less on a processor!

The 102 says AV on it, is that like the real deal?

Sorry for the basic level of the questions - but here is another one.

If I bought an Yamaha DSP-E800 or a Yahama DSP-AX620 and I used my 82/250 for the two front channels can I deploy other Naim electronics for other channels. I see that the DSP-AX620 has Pre Out terminals for all channels. What I was thinking about using a Nait 3 which I have for other two channels - or will this cause me timing probles and perhaps other problems too?

Terry

I think this would be possible. However you would be introducing complexity (and connections/wires) where it would not be necessary, you would have to balance the 82/Nait3 and Av amp volumes before listening.


There may be a case for doing this for the centre channel which, as said above, takes a high % of the signal.

The rear channels have mainly ambient/background noises and in the first instant could easily be driven by the AV amp.

I don't think the 620 has DPL2. DTS-ES, DD-EX etc. you should be able to get these features for the same price

quote:

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Originally posted by greeny:
I think this would be possible. However you would be introducing complexity (and connections/wires) where it would not be necessary, you would have to balance the 82/Nait3 and Av amp volumes before listening.


There may be a case for doing this for the centre channel which, as said above, takes a high % of the signal.

The rear channels have mainly ambient/background noises and in the first instant could easily be driven by the AV amp.

I don't think the 620 has DPL2. DTS-ES, DD-EX etc. you should be able to get these features for the same price

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Thanks Greeny
Sorry it is the DSP-AX630 I am looking at now not the 620. I think the 630 has these features. I have to say I don't know what they are but they are listed in the spec for the 630. Your help is appreciated.
Terry

Last week I set out with the intention of buying an inexpensive, no frills DVD player. I had no intention of getting caught up in the surround sound business. After much deliberation I have done exactly what I set out not to do. I have bought a Pioneer DV656A DVD player and a Yahama DSP-AX630SE home cinema amp.

It is still my intention to use my audio system for the main front speakers and to add other speakers as necessary.

Madness probably as I really listen very seldom to the TV and I have very little space for these items never mind the extra speakers.

I now await the delivery of the items.

Terry

Terry,

No need to apologise, just go have some fun with your new toys.

I'm sure that once you've got it set up and running (which is not a 2 min job), you'll wonder how you lived without it. Whilst real hi-fi is a must for music, there's just no substitute for a decent home cinema setup when watching films.

BTW, check out HMV and www.Play.com, you'll find some good DVD offers at the moment.