PMC usage and amps

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

CDX is actually a heck of a lot better than its relative affordability would have you believe. In some ways, my brief time with a CDX was so enjoyable that my recent trials of a CDS-II/XPS left me a smidgeon underwhelmed, although it is undeniably a better player...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

The reason I say all this is to give my best advice on an upgrade path which will not cost the earth. I think you have some Mana already?:

Give the CD3.5 two more phases of Mana. Put SoundBases under the FB1s. Buy a DVHX75 or, if you refuse, a 250. Buy a Hi-Cap. That's it.

Alex

BTW Personally, I disagree entirely with TC's overwhelment by the CDX and underwhelment by the CDS2 although I can understand that being a first impression.

So, TC, if you're listening, take Mick's advice - buy the CDS2 and get your fiancées dad to finance the wedding. Failing that, have a cheaper wedding - I've never really understood why they have to be so expensive anyway.

And Centreparks is a lovely honeymoon spot provided you have some decent music to return to.

Alex

The engagement last week clouded the issue, no doubt, although I wouldn't change that for the world

I will possibly end up with the CDS-II/XPS anyway, but maybe not as soon as I might otherwise have done. Anyway, I'm also looking forward to being able to include the forthcoming Resolution Audio CD56 as a contendor against the CDS-II/XPS - it being a 2-boxer as well. Whether it's as good remains to be seen/heard, since it's not yet available...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex S.:
I am yet to be convinced that all Naim CDPs work well on Mana. Jonathan's CD3.5 works very well, somebody else's CDX sounded crap on well set-up phase 4. It sounded better on the shagpile. I was not convinced by my CDS2 on 3 levels of Mana and prefer it on Base, especially the new Base platform which really works well with it.

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Alex,

I agree with you completely. Base good, Mana bad (at least for the CDSII).

Although the new platform is obviously good, you really *must* try three ball-nutters (1/2" balls & 8mm nuts) with a slab of Mana glass.

You won't be able to comment in an informed manner on the new platform until you've given it a go!

cheers, Martin

Alex... no I'm not. NZ's a Mana free zone. No importer. I use a Sound Factory Tripod. Tubular construction, rigid as hell with wooden shelves. It was recommended to me by the Naim importer & he certainly knows what works & what doesn't.
You don't rate the 180 much do you? I would've thought the power amp was the least of my problems but you never know. I'll wrap my lugs around an HX75 asap and let you know...

Probably going to buy a CDX in the next couple of weeks.... general consensus is that dicking with the system is pointless until I have a decent source component to build on (surprise surprise)

As for Steven T.... Cheers for that man.

All I can say is that this is perhaps the best upgrade I have ever made!

Took the P9 off the Rega wall shelf and was staggered by how much info I had been missing. The CDX produces a much deeper and spacious sound.

I think a certain Vuksanovic is responsible for the initial idea. Well worth trying to see if it works for you.

I do like the 180, especially at the price, but I don't think it would be a great partner for the FB1s which IMVHO need more power and better bass control than a 180 can provide.

OK forget Mana for now, is Base available? If so, and your floor is level, you could think of putting a couple of platforms under the speakers. I have them under mine and it helps, also, I've herd them make even B&Ws have tuneful bass so they must be good.

I know Mana works differently but a single Base platform can absorb a surprising amount of vibrational energy.

Martin,

I'm not ignoring your advice. I'm waiting for my CDP to come back from Salisbury. They've been testing it for 2 weeks and can find nothing wrong despite the fact that it was loosing half a second of data on every CD by the time I sent it.

When I get it back I'll try the glass. Just out of interest I have 3 well engineered and very pointy ally cones which I may try as well. I have Mana glass and a thicker sheet of plate glass to play with too.

I will also try to find out if its a preamp problem if nothing is ever found on the CDS.

Regards,

Alex

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NZ's a Mana free zone.

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And indeed, from time to time it does come up used.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

quote:

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Originally posted by sonofcolin:
I rigged out my soundstyle rack (glass shelves) with nut and ball bearing arrangement (4 per self in a triangular arrangement)

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Sorry, I'm confused. Is it 4 per shelf in a rectangular arrangement, or three per shelf in a triangular setup?

I found that four nuts were quite markedly worse than three.

The triangular arrangement removed same nastyness from the sound. Also, the four nut setup was much less musical. Until I tried the triangular arrangement I though I was probably going to go back to the wooden platform.

quote:

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The nuts sit around a small rubber disc, which is where the shelves used to sit on. These discs fit exactly inside the nut.

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If the nuts are actually in contact with the rubber I wonder if this would somewhat reduce the isolation effect of the nuts?

cheers, Martin

The nuts are in a triangular arrangement, but the back two are about 3cm apart, whereas the front 2 are the full shelf width apart. Suprisingly much more stability this way when placing expensive equipment on glass shelves! Not possible to have the 3 nut arrangement due to the rear support column (triangular frame).

The rubber discs help to site the nuts and stop them sliding when placing the shelves. As to the affects on the sound, I have yet to investigate! Sounds good to me!

Colin

No thanks. Think I'll pass on that one. It may well be the dogs.... but buying blind has never appealed to me.
Source first and all that. Would've thought that the CDX was the best option. Kinda find it hard to fathom the whole 'Rack Wars' mentality... so many axes grinding away
My easiest option is probably to evict the Fb1's. I know that. But the challenge is to make them work properly... they show definite signs of being an awesome loudspeaker from time to time. As a Roydie from way back the RR2 appeals but surely a better source takes priority?
And Alex... have you still got the squirrel on your head?

Buggerbuggerbuggerbugger etc...

I take it from your comments that you're a fully paid up member of the Mana supporters club?
If so... which bits do you have?

quote:

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The Naim is the best CDP I've heard, but frankly I'm shitting bricks about spending that much money when there seems to be a new CDP smashing through the sound per pound barrier every month

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Alex

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

So my recommendation is take your time, check out the opposition and find out what works to your satisfaction in your system. Forget price and reputation if you can. For example, you might like the Wadia. I didn't but that's me, although I noticed that their big player was switched off at the Bristol Living Voice dem because it sounded ghastly - again a question of synergy perhaps.

As far as Kit is concerned, I can only repeat that the CDS2 and DV amps work really well together.

Finally, and very strongly in its favour, the CDS2 is a player which just grows and grows on you whereas I found the CDX to be rather the opposite.

Alex

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one of my problems with the 3B Primus I borrowed was a slightly 'fat notedness'.

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That's an interesting observation, and I don't want to start an argument here, but I really dislike what I'm calling 'fat notedness' - and that's one of the reasons that I went for the DNM over the 82/HC/250, as I felt that it had a greater ability to delineate 'fat notes' into their respective places. In fact, if anything, I'd criticise the DNM of perhaps erring in the other direction, as its transparency and resolution can make some recordings sound slightly thin.

For this very reason, I have to beg to differ. I respect a lot of what you write, but either the DV amps are incredibly 'thin' (which I doubt, as everyone raves about them) or the 3B you heard was either setup incorrectly, or there was a cable mismatch or something like that.

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So perhaps, just perhaps, ther is a lack of synergy between the CDS2 and DNM preamps.

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Maybe, just maybe. Once problem I experienced when I moved from my old preamp to the DNM was that proximity of other equipment (especially PSUs) to the DNM would result in a slight 'fattening' of the notes, as described. Mana also did this, which I found really difficult to cure, resulting in my having to move the preamp from the rack altogether (sitting it on a nearby non-ferrous shelf).

Not wanting to bring up the issue of ferrous effects again (and despite my leanings I am highly ferro-sceptic about it all), I wonder if the XPS could be the cuplrit?

Obviously, for the purposes of the demo, I put the XPS on the rack, on a nearby shelf (but as far from the CDS-II as possible). I didn't think to keep it from the DNM, so perhaps, just maybe, the presence of the XPS (which wasn't present when I was so impressed with the CDX), is the prevalent factor and just maybe my demo didn't allow either item (CDS-II or DNM) to do justice to the sound.

As Steven Toy will confirm, the CDX worked like a dream in my system, and he will also confirm how keen I was on it. For the CDS-II not to really build on that substantially (despite the price), good though it undeniably is, maybe points to other issues.

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I would still consider lack of proper warm up and bedding-in as the most likely reason for your dissatisfaction but I do know how carefully you have built your system. We both know that system synergy is vital, it is pointless just buying the 'best' individual boxes if they don't perform optimally together.

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Absolutely. The warm-up thing is almost certainly a factor, but my instinctive reaction is that (whilst I was impressed by the CDS-II/XPS) the very fact that I wasn't really blown away would point to a contribution of different things.

I can state this much:

The CDX worked very well, and nothing in my system changed (setup, cable dressing or otherwise) between that player's time in my system and the CDS-II/XPS, other than moving my CD recorder so that I had a shelf for the XPS as well.

Warm-up may be a factor, but I fail to accept that it is as substantial a factor as would make me ultimately a little disappointed. My original findings were positive, after a bit, but in the cold light of day, I wondered if I was experiencing a bit of the 'emperor's new clothes' syndrome with the bigger player.

Setup of player was as close to textbook as I could tell - and running through the POST confirmed that the CDS-II was not experiencing any errors reading the CDs.

An element of doubt, re: the price, definitely coloured my expectations. As I said before, it's a lot of cash for an inferior format, and maybe reading so much about the player and it's legendary performance built a strawman to which the reality couldn't quite meet...???

Now, Alex, let me just reiterate something you wrote to hammer it home:

quote:

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system synergy is vital, it is pointless just buying the 'best' individual boxes if they don't perform optimally together.

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Maybe, just maybe, this is it. Assuming for a second that there was no problem with the CDS-II/XPS, perhaps the player is just voiced in a way that doesn't suit my system, which for the record is a DNM-3B preamp with Primus external PSU, Crimson 640D monoblocks, Neat Gravitas/Petite III speakers on Mana, QS Ref rack, Nordost SPM interconnects and Red Dawn speaker cable. Eclectic mix, but one which I know works.

It's a real puzzler, and not at all what I expected. So much so, in fact, that I'm doubting my own ears somewhat. Once before, I ran into bother with a few people because I dared to question what we were all striving for - I for one don't seek a 'PA-like' presentation in my living room, whilst I know that some do - and so I wonder if perhaps my end-goal with CD playback isn't compatible with the CDS-II's voicing and character?

Ah, very deep for a Tuesday morning...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

are considerably improved by including a CDX in the system...
Many thanks to Soundpilot whose experiences rang a lot of bells for me.
In the last month I've replaced a 92r with a 72 and a 3.5/Flattie with a CDX
I've only had the cdp for 3 days but its made a huge difference to the cd collection...I believe that around 4 weeks is the run-in time on one of these players so as you can imagine I'm feeling pretty optimistic at this stage.

For anyone considering Fb1 a word of caution...they are very good speakers but still lack the magical X factor which make a speaker truly great. An SBL or Brik they'll never be I'm afraid...just one shade too clinical..not enough heart and soul.

Next move is to add a HiCap...this will leave me with a CDX,72,Hi,180 which I think is a pretty good/balanced system.

Then, and only then, will I replace the speakers...nice pair of pre-loved SBLs could be just the ticket

One thing I have learned...music and hifi don't mix!

Thank you all for your responses.

best..
redeye