Snow Leopard?

I've recently updated two machines to SL. Apart from a couple of small annoyances accessing networked shares (OSX prob) and BBC iPlayer Radio not working (RealAudio prob) it's great.

But the real revelation is with music replay. For reasons I can't fathom, my music replay - particularly 24/96 vinyl rips - through the digital side of the system sounds much closer to the vinyl replay. Single biggest improvement is being able to follow individual instruments more easily.

I'm very pleased.

So I knew I was going to have to do it.

I have a number of Mac Mini's that are used for software testing - so moved one of these over. Unfortunately not identical. First machine, 2Gbytes of memory, external storage, Snow Leopard. Second machine internal disc, 1Gbyte of memory and Leopard.

Track used - an Acoustic version of Contessa (Thea Gilmore).

Rest of System, Lavry DA10, 52/250/Obelisks.

Subjective Impression - "Leopard" - relative to SL - Thea seemed closer to the mike, the recording slightly more in 'speaker'. Snow Leopard - relative to Leopard - playback had more air and texture and was rhythmically a little stronger. Subtle, but a difference is there - and SL is a musical stronger - IMO!

Could I tell blind between the two? Probably - but plugging cables is difficult with eyes closed.

So to answer my own question - my SL machine is musically superior (cannot state this is due to the change in OS alone) - and moves iTunes in the direction of Amarra - though I still think Amarra has an edge. Again improving on the qualities above.


Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
I've recently updated two machines to SL. Apart from a couple of small annoyances accessing networked shares (OSX prob) and BBC iPlayer Radio not working (RealAudio prob) it's great.

That's not good as I access my music through a NAS and use iPlayer all the time on my mini !

The shares prob doesn't prevent me from using iTunes (luckily!) and there's a work-around (download Pathfinder and do GET INFO for the drive and uncheck the ALIAS box).

AS332

iPlayer is just fine on mine after installing SL. Music now sounds 7.83% better than before!

OK, I made that last bit up as I can't, through the casual listening I have done, detect any difference.

Cheers

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
I've recently updated two machines to SL. For reasons I can't fathom, my music replay - through the digital side of the system sounds much closer to the vinyl replay.

Single biggest improvement is being able to follow individual instruments more easily.

I'm very pleased.

Hi Dave,

This is exactly my experience.

Joe

Exactly my experience too. The improvement is not subtle. I only did the OS update this morning and have cancelled plans to go out tonight.

Paramus, with the exception of speakers we have the same system.

Rich

Has anyone done a clean install of SL or just upgraded?

ALWAYS a clean install here - it's a good excuse to upgrade the internal laptop drive on my MacBook 13".

ALWAYS faster and problem-free than incremental install-over-existing-OS....

'Sir'

Trying not to over-egg it

Garyi,

OK First you give me shit for thinking they wont sound different. Then you say you actually havent heard but still continue to give me shit. Then you say you have been running it for months and state "I am not for one minute saying the sound is better or even different"

What gives? Make up your mind. Is it better or not, do you have it or not.

Also, I dont have ANY problems with Macs, Apple or their fans and owners. It is my not choice for audio. What the hell is so wrong with that?

I have listed my reason for not using iTunes to rip. I have stated why I dont use iTunes as a player. NONE of the them have ANYTHING to do with sound quality.

So back the F off with your statement "you rightly get pissed at apple people and so every thing apple by design is a *bad* thing (except of course for the products you own)"

I have never said anything bad about apple or aple users. It just isn't my choice and I woudl NEVER use it for rips and you shouldn't either. I just ripped another CD a few days ao that had pre-track info. Itunes would have mised it.

REgarding iTunes as a player. I just dont like it. I am sure it sounds great, but dont like it.

I have an iPhone, a Macbook, a blutooth Keyboard, and the mighty mouse (crap, never use it), I like Apple just fine. I just dont personally see the big deal about having to exclusively use a Mac computer, or a PC for that matter. It just isnt my deal to use any of the software they have developed for audio.

IF I could run Foobar, adn EAC on Mac, i bet my Macbook would be chilling in my kit rather than a PC. Who knows?

But in any event PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth that are miles from anything I have ever said or intimated.

thanks

Patrick read my posts on the matter. Where did I state it sounds better anywhere?

I am mearly stating that 10.6 has been built from the ground up. It may look the same but its not. I am not giving you shit. I am asking you to be consistent in your approach. As far as I can remember you have stated a number of times you would never use your mac to play back music. You said you prefer foobar. Why is that exactly? Just so you can listen to crowd noises before a cd starts?

I have had issues with the betas of snow leopard in terms of network sharing and as such have not installed it on the mac which provides music. Therefore I do not have an opinion on if it sounds better, only that its a possiblity. Because as I am sure you are aware software has the power to alter sound, just as surely as naims in house software does, Ammara and indeed foobar.

GAryi,

go away. You are so boring.

I use Foobar because it is the best player for ME!

As a player I DONT use iTunes for the reasons above. NO FLAC, Bad album art, slow as hell with my library size and playlists. What the F do you care?

As a ripper, I use EAC for the reasons above, Log, Cue, Gaps, Pre-tracks, FLAC, etc...

NONE of which relate to SQ, NONE. Please find ONE, just one, single thread where I said ANY of these sounded different from each other. Please, just one.

Foobar doesn't sound any different to anything else in my ears. Sorry to disappoint you. Go on making all kinds of shit up in your head, from what Ive said to your guess that Snow Leopard sounds better.

Patrick why do you take things so personally?

this is a discussions forum. The thing with a forum is everyone posting on it has an opinion.

I respect your opinion Patrick, but its a little wooly is all. It would appear I was incorrect regards your reasoning for foobar.

Garyi,

I am not taking anything personally. I am simply expressing frustration. We obviously use different language, wooly (???) or otherwise.

I agree with you that everyone has an opinion/belief. And just because we have one does not make them true, or justified.

Gettier aside, this does not equal knowledge.

I suppose in the end, as it always is, if one thinks it is better, it is..... To them.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
The thing about the old OS is it was designed to go in all Macs going back years.
The new SL OS is a true update for the newer Macs.
This is the reason people are finding all this extra space in there Macs when they load SL.
Its clearing all the old shite thats not needed.
And there is alot of it.
Shite gone = better music replay.
Happy days Patrick try a Mac.
Stu

The shite shouldn't really effect anything unless it's processes running but it's all bit perfect regardless of OS, right? Sorry, I couldn't help it . Nice to know things are still getting better.

Exactly js...

I would be more inclined to think a particular hard drive, router or other piece of hardware in the chain would be more of a factor than an OS. And even then I would cry foul. These things just don't differ in a meaningful or measurable way.

In fact the OS shouldn't be doing anything with the audio except passing it on unfettered. How can it get better at doing that when it was already achieving it previously, nothing. How is 100% better than 100%?

I suppose there is a possibility that it is actually processing/altering the data in some way, a computational, virtual "loudness button".
But I doubt it as all of these players out there are tested as bit perfect.

I can buy, just barely, that there is a difference in SQ between DS and ASIO on a PC. But I surely cant hear a difference. Bit perfection can be achieved with both options although with ASIO it can be guaranteed to not fail in those one in a million chances where it wouldn't. DS is fine so long as there is only one audio stream being processed at a time. Even when it is, it can still be OK.

Both Foobar and iTunes volumes can be used without affecting this perfection. Although it was previously not thought to be the case with iTunes, and to be safe I always leave my Foobar's @ 100%.

Now in the area of performance, I can definitely see the OS playing a part. A huge one. A computer is pushed pretty hard when playing hi res audio. But even in those cases where the puter wasn't up to spec, you would hear drop-outs, pops, clicks, not a general reduction SQ. Or the program would just run really slowly, (iTunes) which is annoying but doesn't change the music.

I get the flat earthiness and all, but I just find it hard to swallow that any OS changes already bit perfect audio as these quotes above state:
"The improvement is not subtle"
"my SL machine is musically superior"
"playback had more air and texture and was rhythmically a little stronger"
"Thea seemed closer to the mike, the recording slightly more in 'speaker'"
"digital side of the system sounds much closer to the vinyl replay"
"being able to follow individual instruments more easily"
"upgraded one does have an improved sound"
"SL upgrade definitely moves iTunes/Core in the direction of Amarra"
"It does sound alot better"
"Shite gone = better music replay"


But, ironically, the best comment comes from you Garyi:
"I have been running it for months and have detected no sound differences"

We aren't so far from each other after all. Going to watch soccer this afternoon, and throw some pints. I'd love to buy you one!

Patrick

Sorry PC but I was being facetious. I don't know if it sounds different or not but believe it could, just like drives, USB and firewire cables etc. I'm hoping the new DAC removes some of this but we'll have to wait and see.

By the way, I've tried the dig outs of the new players and you can clearly tell that the CDX2 is better with the DACs on hand. Again hoping for some correction later.

Pstrick.

Its nothing to do with "bit perfect" - its everything to do with reduction in jitter. The two are orthogonal concerns!

JS - my only previous statement - was that my computer solution was better then my CD player. Which it is. The gap has just widened.

Cheers

General rib not directed at you. Might have some noise differences also.

yeah it will soon be xmas

quote:

Patrick why do you take things so personally?

this is a discussions forum. The thing with a forum is everyone posting on it has an opinion.

I respect your opinion Patrick, but its a little wooly is all. It would appear I was incorrect regards your reasoning for foobar.

LOL - no contest

garyi - 100

pcstockton - 0

imo Foobar sounds like bad mid-80's digital - boring

Nick

Stu,

Got to be perfectly honest - i cant really tell as i think the SL2s are still running in...so in this case it would be unfair to say that it definitely is. having said that the system is sounding sublime.

Dave

Sector,

Curious, are you a Mac user?

I cant hear a difference between Foobar, iTunes, J River, Winamp, XBMC, VLC, Songbird etc.... I have tried them all. If you can cheers to you. It must drive you nuts to be able to hear things that are either a) not there, or b) beyond the threshold of human hearing. Can you hear dog whistles?

But if Foobar sounds like 80's digital to you, that is wonderful news! All of the best CD pressings were done in the mid to late 80s, prior to the "Loudness Wars". Barry Diament, and Steve Hoffman's work from this era are stunning. Barry's mastering surpasses the vinyl releases in many cases, most notably Led Zeppelin, Bob Marley, Yes and Genesis.

Keep in mind that just because it is on vinyl, does not always mean it is the best.

Open your mind, and ears.

So if Foobar does in fact sound like 80s digital, i suppose that is why I like it so much. Although I cannot say I can hear such differences. Of all the digital sources/players NONE sound like vinyl. So an 80s digital flavor sounds great!

-patrick

Snow Leoprad is working fine for me, but I can't say I notice any difference in sound quality.

My signal path: Lossless CD rips in iTunes - MacBook Pro - Airport Express - SuperNait - B&W 803 (ancient) - cloth ears - brain clogged with trivia.