Snow Leopard?
Posted by: paremus on 03 September 2009
So I updated my MAC MINI server today. Ran a few tracks before hand, and replayed them after the upgrade. Seemed better. But its difficult to A<>B. I'm not downgrading the OS again 
Tried Amarra on Snow Leopard and - to my ears - there is still a noticeable improvement over the straight iTunes/Core audio. Note this not the Snow Leopard certified version of Amarra.
So anyone else upgraded? What are your thoughts? Am I hearing things?
Cheers
Richard
Tried Amarra on Snow Leopard and - to my ears - there is still a noticeable improvement over the straight iTunes/Core audio. Note this not the Snow Leopard certified version of Amarra.
So anyone else upgraded? What are your thoughts? Am I hearing things?
Cheers
Richard
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Snow Leoprad is working fine for me, but I can't say I notice any difference in sound quality.
My signal path: Lossless CD rips in iTunes - MacBook Pro - Airport Express - SuperNait - B&W 803 (ancient) - cloth ears - brain clogged with trivia.
Have you tried connecting the Mac directly to the Supernait?
Joe
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by winkyincanada
quote:Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
Have you tried connecting the Mac directly to the Supernait?
Joe
Yep. No difference there either to my ears. The only disadvantage of the wireless seems to be that my microwave oven causes dropouts. I'm streaming the files wirelessly from a TimeCapsule as well so I actually have 2 wireless links.
I'm going to swap to a "hardwired" Mac Mini when I get the motivation. Main reason is that I don't like using my back-up disc as an everyday storage unit for my music files. The longevity is the issue.
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Yep. No difference there either to my ears. The only disadvantage of the wireless seems to be that my microwave oven causes dropouts. I'm streaming the files wirelessly from a TimeCapsule as well so I actually have 2 wireless links.
I'm going to swap to a "hardwired" Mac Mini when I get the motivation. Main reason is that I don't like using my back-up disc as an everyday storage unit for my music files. The longevity is the issue.
Have you tried another DAC into the Supernait? I can't vouch for the SN but trying a few I have consistently found the Mac optically connected to them sounds better than using my AE (which is OK and certainly doesn't suffer any drop outs) but the directly connected route is consistently better.
Joe
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by QTT
It is a myth! I have been listening to a Mac Mini with Snow Leopard installed for a past couple of days - No difference at all.
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by js
I doubt there will be a concensus unless all eventually hold your view. Sounds like a reasonably priced better OS regardless so why not unless it needs a bit of debugging?quote:Originally posted by QTT:
It is a myth! I have been listening to a Mac Mini with Snow Leopard installed for a past couple of days - No difference at all.
Posted on: 08 September 2009 by tonym
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
Sector,
Curious, are you a Mac user?
I cant hear a difference between Foobar, iTunes, J River, Winamp, XBMC, VLC, Songbird etc.... I have tried them all. If you can cheers to you. It must drive you nuts to be able to hear things that are either a) not there, or b) beyond the threshold of human hearing. Can you hear dog whistles?
But if Foobar sounds like 80's digital to you, that is wonderful news! All of the best CD pressings were done in the mid to late 80s, prior to the "Loudness Wars". Barry Diament, and Steve Hoffman's work from this era are stunning. Barry's mastering surpasses the vinyl releases in many cases, most notably Led Zeppelin, Bob Marley, Yes and Genesis.
Keep in mind that just because it is on vinyl, does not always mean it is the best.
Open your mind, and ears.
So if Foobar does in fact sound like 80s digital, i suppose that is why I like it so much. Although I cannot say I can hear such differences. Of all the digital sources/players NONE sound like vinyl. So an 80s digital flavor sounds great!
-patrick
Good posting pc. I couldn't tell any difference between the various music thingies either. Exclusively Mac now, & happy with iTunes.
But I do think SL sounds a tadge better than Leopard.
Posted on: 09 September 2009 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by QTT:
It is a myth! I have been listening to a Mac Mini with Snow Leopard installed for a past couple of days - No difference at all.
With respect, you view is reported honestly and is no different to others who have found differently. It doesn't make anything a myth. There are too many variables. Absence of proof is not proof of absence and I agree with tonym, it is what I hear between two identical machines - only one of which was upgraded. I don't know why, wasn't expecting it but I am interested in what might have happened.
All settings, ripping program, cables, DAC, amp etc. are the same.
Joe
Posted on: 09 September 2009 by pcstockton
I stand corrected. It is completely plausible that an OS could have an effect on jitter. Albeit, most of these sources of jitter are hardware based. Although they are controlled, presumably, by the software of the OS.
There must have been a shiteload of jitter introduced in the older OS's. That is the ONLY explanation given none of the hardware has changed.
Of all of the likely sources for jitter into the audio stream the following could possibly be affected by the OS:
Master Clock Jitter
S/PDIF conversion
If the OS controls any Buffers
Toslink optical Conversion
The ones that shouldn't be affecting the audio given a particular OS:
Transmission Line (TL) effects
Printed Circuit Board design
Digital Cable materials and design
Power Subsystem
CD/Media imperfection
Buffers (as mentioned above if it they are completely hardware dependent)
EVERYONE with a Mac should upgrade asap. Others should look into how Vista and 7 could be an "upgrade" as well.
Cheers,
Patrick
There must have been a shiteload of jitter introduced in the older OS's. That is the ONLY explanation given none of the hardware has changed.
Of all of the likely sources for jitter into the audio stream the following could possibly be affected by the OS:
Master Clock Jitter
S/PDIF conversion
If the OS controls any Buffers
Toslink optical Conversion
The ones that shouldn't be affecting the audio given a particular OS:
Transmission Line (TL) effects
Printed Circuit Board design
Digital Cable materials and design
Power Subsystem
CD/Media imperfection
Buffers (as mentioned above if it they are completely hardware dependent)
EVERYONE with a Mac should upgrade asap. Others should look into how Vista and 7 could be an "upgrade" as well.
Cheers,
Patrick
Posted on: 09 September 2009 by js
Buffers would be software controlled and influenced if there is any.
Posted on: 13 September 2009 by winkyincanada
I posted earlier to say I couldn't tell the difference that SL had brought. Well, after a few days, I keep being drawn a bit more into the listening and a bit stunned at how good my setup sounds. This used to happen every now and then, but it has been happening more lately. Hmmm. Maybe there is something in this OS thing after all.
Posted on: 15 September 2009 by Exiled Highlander
Winky
Having come to the same conclusions as you (no difference) I also agree that there is something drawing me more into the music...it just seems to flow better and like you it draws me in more. Weird.
Jim
Having come to the same conclusions as you (no difference) I also agree that there is something drawing me more into the music...it just seems to flow better and like you it draws me in more. Weird.
Jim
Posted on: 15 September 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Having come to the same conclusions as you (no difference) ...it just seems to flow better and like you it draws me in more.
Is there not some kind of major contradiction above? Is it different or not?
Posted on: 15 September 2009 by CharlieP
Well I updated to SnowLeopard, OS10.6.1, over the weekend, also Upgraded to iTunes 9. I am pretty sure my system sounds better, even though I use the TC firewire audio interface to my DAC. It is quieter background and better "musical texture" for want of a better word. I normally always undo a change to confirm "improvements" in an effort to reduce audio-halucination. Not practical to do this, so I offer my observation with considerable reservation.
It would be great to learn what is different.
Charlie
It would be great to learn what is different.
Charlie
Posted on: 16 September 2009 by Stephen B
I didn't notice any improvement when I updated to Snow Leopard, but when I did the iTunes 9 update a few days after I noticed improvements similar to Charlie's above.
This is with a MacBook into a Cambridge DacMagic.
This is with a MacBook into a Cambridge DacMagic.
Posted on: 22 September 2009 by winkyincanada
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Having come to the same conclusions as you (no difference) ...it just seems to flow better and like you it draws me in more.
Is there not some kind of major contradiction above? Is it different or not?
Hard to say. Nothing that I could objectively identify. It is entirely possible that the improvement is totally psychosomatic.
Posted on: 22 September 2009 by james n
Oh well for £25 its worth a punt. Itunes running Amarra on Leopard sounds bloody good anyway.
James
James
Posted on: 22 September 2009 by Exiled Highlander
PC
What I was trying to convey was that somehow over time I subconsciously found the music more involving and it could be entirely psychosomatic as Winky says. But you know what - if I think it's better it is better isn't it?
Jim
I don't think so. When I listen "critically" I find that I am listening for pieces of the music, is the bass better, the high's clearer of less splashy or whatever.quote:Is there not some kind of major contradiction above? Is it different or not?
What I was trying to convey was that somehow over time I subconsciously found the music more involving and it could be entirely psychosomatic as Winky says. But you know what - if I think it's better it is better isn't it?
Jim