Speeding on the M4 in Wiltshire (II)
Posted by: Steve Toy on 08 February 2006
Andy C, Please ask Van the Man your question here...
Meanwhile, relaxing the drinking laws has resulted in a 21% fall in alcohol-related violent crime and a 14% reduction in woundings. These falls cannot be attributed to a greater police presence as there were more police around for Christmas 2004 period too.
Liberalism can work and I think we could also see falls in road deaths and injuries by relaxing speed limits and their enforcement.
Posted on: 13 February 2006 by Nime
While a big fan of the Fredrik School of Motoring:
Given the improvements in vehicle technology I believe their is a good case for increasing speed limits on certain sparsely-populated motorways.
It also ought to be perfectly legal to increase one's speed considerably if no other vehicle is visible ahead. Provided the speed limit is strictly adhered to the moment another vehicle is sighted ahead.
But you can't legislate for the idiots who will always bend <or smash> the rules. Putting a lower top speed limit on drivers under 25 might be a good idea if road safety is the main consideration.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
It also ought to be perfectly legal to increase one's speed considerably if no other vehicle is visible ahead. Provided the speed limit is strictly adhered to the moment another vehicle is sighted ahead.
I think you are heading in the right direction with this idea. I'd like to suggest that observing the two-second rule in dry conditions (doubling that to four in the wet) would be equally effective whilst allowing more frequent opportunities for safe due progress to be made.
Keeping ones distance does require a litle more intelligent thought than blindly obeying a number in a red disc though, but such initiative should surely be encouraged amongst the masses.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Van the man
The laws maybe draconian, particularly regarding driving early hours of the morning when the roads are relatively clear, but where do we stop regarding what laws we disobey? I mean if speeding can be turned a blind eye to how about taking a baseball bat to an intruder in your home and beating them until they're a puddle of blood on the floor? would we say that the law minimising force is draconian?
Two second rule? even on dry roads at 90mph you are not going to avoid a collision.
People will ofcourse carry on breaking the law, the defence that the law is draconian is no defence.
I would suggest a two offence limit with a lifetime ban, if someone wants to hurtle along at 90mph and kill themselves when they have a blow out go for it, but when as always is the case there are more casualties than the speeder I have no sympathy for them.
The attitude that a person has driven for 25 years without incident is no defence either, allow more time for the journey, you will be less tired mentally than hurtling at any speed over the limit.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Steve Toy
So if you get caught twice with a tail light or brake light out it's the birch then?
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
you will be less tired mentally than hurtling at any speed over the limit.
That's a load of bollocks. Boredom causes tiredness. Driving at an
optimum safe speed provides the requisite stimulation to arrive refreshed. This optimum may be above 70mph on the M6 through Cumbria on a dry and sunny afternoon. As for the blowout, drivers caught twice with incorrect tyre pressures or worn tyres should be flogged to within an inch of their lives before being hung drawn and quartered.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Derek Wright
The French Concorde was proceeding along the runway at a legal speed and it hit a bit of debris
Unfortunately debris does litter roads and can kill - a friend died in such a crash due to a lose catseye block on the road, and witnesses said she was driving at a sensible speed.
But then super reaction Toy would spot these hazards even before they are visible.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by andy c
quote:
Boredom causes tiredness.
fatigue also does - in your line of work you would know that. over work also does - being asked to more that is reasonable re spending time at wotk etc...
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Steve Toy
Most taxi drivers work long hours and usually 6 days a week. The alternative is to work 5 days and shorter hours (nights only in my case.)
This gives me more time for rest, but in order to make my money up I have to put my foot down...
The glib comment above about leaving earlier often means getting up earlier and sleeping less. Not good.
Posted on: 14 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
Unfortunately debris does litter roads and can kill - a friend died in such a crash due to a lose catseye block on the road, and witnesses said she was driving at a sensible speed.
So driving below the speed limit doesn't make one immune from fatal crashes then, does it?
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Toy:
Most taxi drivers work long hours and usually 6 days a week. The alternative is to work 5 days and shorter hours (nights only in my case.)
This gives me more time for rest, but in order to make my money up I have to put my foot down...
The glib comment above about leaving earlier often means getting up earlier and sleeping less. Not good.
My suggestion about the lifetime ban was in relation to people who take the piss regarding speeding, not for driving with a light out, that can happen any time to anyone, I have even seen the odd police car with a light out!
You obviously live a very stressed life, although you do your best to suggest that your lifestyle means that you do not.
I am affraid that if money was my only concern in my life I would feel I would be better off dead, maybe if they had a total ban for people who took the piss out the speed limit they would have the time to consider that their futures lie in other employment, no one is being forced to speed, that is fact, the only reson people speed is through their own will, people saying they cannot cater their driving to a safe manner within the limits is bollocks, all in my opinion ofcourse.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Steve Toy
Van,
You place a disproportionate emphasis on speed limit compliance.
You do this because either you believe the law to be some kind of absolute, you are a control freak or you honestly believe the propaganda and one-third lie.
The reality is 3% of road accidents are caused by exceeding a posted speed limit, 7% are caused by driving at excess speed for the conditions but within a posted limit, and 17% are caused by driving tired.
Tired driving is the result of either too many hours on the road or not enough sleep. Setting off earlier will mean getting less sleep. Travelling more slowly will mean more time spent driving.
Perhaps the answer is fewer and shorter journeys being made - that will certainly help the statistics and work towards the government's anti freedom-of-movement goals. However, it won't do much for our economy and this brings us to money. You seem to be an idealist on that score. Idealism doesn't pay the rent/mortgage, clothe us, put food on the table, pay bills, taxes and buy furnishings - before we even consider the luxuries like a hi-fi system.
Plenty of people drive for a living and without them the country would grind to a halt. Blind obedience of all posted speed limits for a professional driver would be like someone in a factory working to rule. If I stuck rigidly to every speed limit all of the time I would not earn enough money to keep my head above water or I'd be working long hours thus trading my 3% risk for a 17% one.
The speed limits are there not for safety but to drive us off the roads. This explains why they've been coming down faster than the accident statistics in recent years.
Before internet message board spin phenomena portrays professional drivers as lunatics we are not talking doubling speed limits but typically 40 mph in a 30 away from places where there are pedestrians actually milling around or walking along pavements, away from schools at the beginning and end of the school day. 50 in a 40, 70 in a 60, 80 on dual carriageways with multigrade junctions, 90 on the motorway, all when conditions allow - the latter being perfectly legal in a number of nearby countries.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Toy:
I'm sorry, but 90 mph through Cumbria, Dumfries and Galloway on 3 lane empty motorways is never going to be dangerous in dry conditions in a modern car. The Talivans along the above only help Gordon Brown to unbalance our books.
When heading to Edinburgh from down south what I do is cruise at 85mph or so on the M6 until I reach Carlisle, the follow the A7 to Langholm and then use backroads north (B709, A708, Talla reservoir road) to the A701. Far more entertaining than the motorway and just as fast as you can abuse the speed limits to your hearts content as there is no chance of a booking.
quote:
The Germans have no speed restrictions on equivalent strethches of motorway and yet their safety record is still second after ours in the EU.
The number of crashes in bad weather on the autobahns has to be experienced to be believed.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Toy:
Van,
You place a disproportionate emphasis on speed limit compliance.
You do this because either you believe the law to be some kind of absolute, you are a control freak or you honestly believe the propaganda and one-third lie.
The reality is 3% of road accidents are caused by exceeding a posted speed limit, 7% are caused by driving at excess speed for the conditions but within a posted limit, and 17% are caused by driving tired.
Tired driving is the result of either too many hours on the road or not enough sleep. Setting off earlier will mean getting less sleep. Travelling more slowly will mean more time spent driving.
Perhaps the answer is fewer and shorter journeys being made - that will certainly help the statistics and work towards the government's anti freedom-of-movement goals. However, it won't do much for our economy and this brings us to money. You seem to be an idealist on that score. Idealism doesn't pay the rent/mortgage, clothe us, put food on the table, pay bills, taxes and buy furnishings - before we even consider the luxuries like a hi-fi system.
Plenty of people drive for a living and without them the country would grind to a halt. Blind obedience of all posted speed limits for a professional driver would be like someone in a factory working to rule. If I stuck rigidly to every speed limit all of the time I would not earn enough money to keep my head above water or I'd be working long hours thus trading my 3% risk for a 17% one.
The speed limits are there not for safety but to drive us off the roads. This explains why they've been coming down faster than the accident statistics in recent years.
Before internet message board spin phenomena portrays professional drivers as lunatics we are not talking doubling speed limits but typically 40 mph in a 30 away from places where there are pedestrians actually milling around or walking along pavements, away from schools at the beginning and end of the school day. 50 in a 40, 70 in a 60, 80 on dual carriageways with multigrade junctions, 90 on the motorway, all when conditions allow - the latter being perfectly legal in a number of nearby countries.
" You place a disproportionate emphasis on speed limit compliance."
Not at all, what would you describe as disproportianate? not being allowed to belt along the motorway at any speed you want? well ok go for it, just dont plead the " I have to do it to get the money in " when you're pulled over or the ticket drops on the mat, simply pointing to what other countries do is nothing to do with the subject.
" The speed limits are there not for safety but to drive us off the roads. "
Do not agree with that one, if people speed often enough and they're caught one time too many it will be their own behaviour that has resulted in their being driven off the road.
"Setting off earlier will mean getting less sleep. "
Not at all, go to bed earlier!
Anyway, I guess people will always try to justify why they live life on the edge, will just sign off with the line from that verve song, " you're a slave to money then you die "
That is a universal quote steve, not just aimed at one person.
best wishes.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
Not at all, go to bed earlier!
The glibness doesn't stop does it?
Like most people I have a life. I also have a daily bio-rhythm that doesn't let me sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. I sleep when I'm tired, not on command. I may have to wake to the command of the alarm clock though. If I were simply to go to bed earlier I'd just lie awake until my usual sleep time.
quote:
Do not agree with that one, if people speed often enough and they're caught one time too many it will be their own behaviour that has resulted in their being driven off the road.
You've missed that point too. The government is driving us off the roads not through speeding tickets and points but by making the road to private users an unattractive transport proposition.
They have their ears to the wankery organisation Friends of the Earth that came out with the following statement back in 1995,
"Speed limits should be set low and rigidly enforced to take the glamour out of motoring."
The above organisation also believes that economic slump is the necessary consequence of becoming environmentally friendly.
Safety doesn't even enter the equation other than for the purposes of spin.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
simply pointing to what other countries do is nothing to do with the subject.
A point of reference. If it's ok for them from a safety POV it is ok for us. They have a sense of balance and perspective. We don't.
Posted on: 15 February 2006 by Nime
I bet cab drivers thrashed their horses too!
Your stress is of your own making Steve. Your perspective is oddly skewed for someone earning a crust by driving.
Is being an old (and still angry) taxi driver a desirable goal for someone with intelligence and an education?
Posted on: 16 February 2006 by Steve Toy
I'm not angry. So far I've escaped the clutches of speed limit enforcement.
All I ask on the behalf of all those who drive regularly and not just for a Sunday picnic is for speed limits/enforcement policy that reflect the needs of getting around and the economy rather than the agenda of the "green" extremists.
quote:
Is being an old (and still angry) taxi driver a desirable goal for someone with intelligence and an education?
I'm beginning to wonder that myself.
Posted on: 16 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
I bet cab drivers thrashed their horses too!
If I'd been a cab driver in a previous life with the character I possess now I'd never have done that even if it had been legal.
There are wrongs when the law says it is right and vice versa. I choose to live by this code and if folks think I'm wrong then I accept that and will continue nevertheless
If ever injured someone through driving (or any other normal activity) I'd take full responsibity for it whether I acted within the law or not.
I know of a colleague, however, who was convicted of dangerous driving after a cyclist at night with no lights, ran into the side of his car. That conviction was wrong and the cyclist should have paid for the repairs to the vehicle.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Nigel Cavendish
I wonder, Steve, what one of your clients would say if they missed a plane/train/important meeting because you had been pulled over for speeding.
I wonder what their family would say if you crashed at excessive speed and killed him/her?
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by lyndon
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
I wonder, Steve, what one of your clients would say if they missed a plane/train/important meeting because you had been pulled over for speeding.
A customer calls our office and says that their car won't start and they need a taxi to the airport ASAP. A driver arrives within five minutes to be told that the plane leaves in an hour and the gate closes in 35 minutes. The driver then proceeds to the airport sticking rigidly to all speed limits. Even when they get stuck at a set of temporary traffic lights he makes no attempt to regain a little lost time on the 10 mile stretch of motorway that follows.
They narrowly miss their flight.
The police tend not to pull taxi drivers with passengers on board. They usually follow the taxi until the passengers have reached their destination before pulling the driver.
We have one driver at our firm who sticks rigidly to all speed limits. He receives more complaints and more requests of
don't send... than any other for this reason. He also works the longest hours.
quote:
I wonder what their family would say if you crashed at excessive speed and killed him/her?
What would the family say if I fell asleep at the wheel and crashed?
Tiredness causes 17% of accidents.
Exceeding posted speed limits causes 3%.
Get over the myth of speeding drivers/accidents relationship. The link is tenuous.
Posted on: 21 February 2006 by Nime
Repeated raising of the hormonal output to cope with the "highs" involved in driving at illegal speeds results in chronic tiredness, heart disease, cancer.. oh, and an inability to judge damaging behavioural patterns?
Posted on: 21 February 2006 by Steve Toy
So as I understand it then, the hormonal output rises once the speeds of 31, 41, 51, 61 and 71 mph respectively are reached then?
There is an optimum safe speed that may, on occasions, be above a posted limit.
I think driving at 69.9999 mph when your plane is about to take off will release a lot of hormones...
Posted on: 21 February 2006 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by Nime:
Repeated raising of the hormonal output to cope with the "highs" involved in driving at illegal speeds results in chronic tiredness, heart disease, cancer.. oh, and an inability to judge damaging behavioural patterns?
The more tired I get the poorer my patience and judgement becomes. OK so no news there. One factor (of admittedly many) which doesn’t seem to have been discussed much is how tiring the car is to drive. Tomorrow I’ll be off at 5.00 for a 220 mile trip and making the return trip sometime after 18.00. Pretty typical but a bit earlier than usual. Getting to the client unfatigued and alert won’t be a problem. But the trip back will be draining. Whilst being no substitute for physical fitness, concentration, skill, eating properly and taking breaks, the refinement, comfort and driving characteristics of the car will be a significant factor in the state I reach home in. I’ve had hire cars and loaners for long trips – I can’t believe how draining some cars are to drive and how people put up with such a miserable, uncomfortable experience. I guess they don’t know any different. Of course, it’ll help to get a good night’s sleep tonight too.
I’m also more likely to drift over the speed limit if knackered. Odd how being tired doesn’t make me drive more slowly. If I’m over the speed limit and exhausted, if I have an accident does that get classified as fatigue, excessive speed or both?
Just my £0.02
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 21 February 2006 by Steve Toy
I tend to slow down when I'm knackered, although on one occasion on Autobahn 6 west of Kaiserslautern I deliberately floored the car it in order for a rush of adrenalin to stop me from falling asleep. I'd been driving almost continuously for 22 and a half hours.
