The Published Results of my Poweramp Trials

Alex,

Quick question: I understand your 640s are 2 years old and you said before they were labelled as 630s. Are you sure that they weren't actually the 100w 630s? I say this because if they're two years old, they probably aren't the same amps as I am familiar with, which are new for 2001 as far as I am aware. Agree with most of what you have said, although I have never heard the Dynavector amps. The latest 640s use the slit-foil capacitors from DNM, I believe.

It's nice to hear someone else reinforcing the Crimson side of things for once, though - I thought I was alone in my appreciation of those cute wee monsters...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Alex.

I would expect the Dynavector to be better since it double the price of the other amps. Just for a quick clarification here: What are the transient power of those amps? I know that the NAP 250 has 400VA for a 70W/channel. How loud did you play them? I just went to Bob Dylan concert in Toronto on Thursday and realize that the music I like is not about high resolution or transparency or highly detailed sound of various instruments but ALL ABOUT rhythm and dynamic transient power. I am in the market for high power amps here. (I am thinking about the NAP 500 or at least a pair of 135s then go to 4 units if I follow that path).

...that the reason there is no picking up of individual instruments, etc., is that there is precious little control over the acoustics, and the priority is 'quantity of sound' over 'quality of sound' for most amplified gigs. For instance, I've been to a few hundred gigs in my time but nothing has ever come close to the sound quality I get in my living room, and I'd hope the same would be true of other members' systems also.

I think the 'dynamic' is a product of weaknesses in other areas of the amplified gig. Sure, it's louder and everything is so much more packed with energy, but the environment and acoustics of such gigs is rarely able to contain that sound and it invariably sounds really crap.

I'd know I'd have gone wrong if I got that sort of sound in my living room - gigs are enjoyable because of the atmosphere, the 'liveness', the interaction with the crowd and the sensation of the event - all good things that make a gig enjoyable DESPITE the sound, which you put up with for the sake of the other qualities.

Anyone wanting gig sound would be far better advised buying a Peavey rig and a mixing desk, one speaker turned all the way until it honks on its one note bass, and pumping up every slider to max. Guaranteed gig sound, and no NAP500s in sight...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Tuan

You will note that the HX1.2 and a pair of 135s would cost the same. I know what I would choose since I gave them (a guesstimate) 76 and the DV 86. I invite you to have a listen. The HX shifts current! (Don't have the spec to hand). Its rated at 130-ish watts into 8ohms (the new version is 190 watts). It has no problem with dynamics, handling of transients, power and scale. The fact that you can also hear all the instruments in a given mix I would consider an advantage.

I played everything at about 9.45 on the dial.

TC

The 2 years old Crimsons was just a guess to save writing. Since you ask, what they are is labelled as 630s but brought up to 640 specification by Dennis Morecroft (definitely 200watts but I believe there are even newer versions at 120 watts which deliver more current = more sophistication). They are Martin Morecroft's dem pair and he installed them in my system to his satisfaction. They do all the 250 does but better. They are just more fun, and a steal at £1400.

Alex

[This message was edited by Alex S. on SATURDAY 10 November 2001 at 18:13.]

You'll note that I rate the 250 and Crimsons equally with regard to musicality and enjoyment factor.

I think new 250s are better than old ones but by very little - maybe 2-3 points in these tests - and I prefer the old transformers.

Tuan mentions price so I will too, a pair of 200watt Crimsons will sost you £1400 and in a non-Naim system will perform really well. Unsurprisingly there is synergy with DNM since they use that company's capacitors and cable.

I would choose 135s in a Naim system ahead of any Crimsons. I would choose the Dynavector ahead of 135s in any system. I am not saying others should do the same but those in the 250 bracket could listen to the DVHX75, those in the market for 135s could examine an HX1.2 and those rushing off to spend 10K on a NAP500 might also audition the HX1.2 in order to confirm that the extra 6K is money well spent.

Alex

If (as I understand it) the 135s are simply monoblock NAP250s, then I'd still expect the 640Ds to blow them out of the water, although perhaps to a lesser extent.

However, I haven't done a comparitive demo, so until I have I can't say for sure.

All I know is that there is a performance gulf between the 250 and the Crimson 200w monoblocks (and I have done a demo with new latest-spec versions of each very recently) with the Crimsons 'out-Naiming' Naim on the PRaT and enjoyability, whilst having significantly more grip and control (I mean, seriously, did you expect anything else? A comparison with the 135s is therefore much fairer in this regard).

The interesting point to note is that I have found (like quite a few hifi components) the Crimsons do take a while (2 days+) to come onto song - but this variation is only small.

I think the fairer comparison would have been the 100w Crimson 630s versus the 250, the 135s versus the 640s - and I'd still back the Crimsons, unless the 135s are MUCH MUCH better than the 250 is.

But seriously, folks, we'd be comparing a pair of four grand monoblocks against a pair of fourteen hundred quid monoblocks - a David and Goliath situation, eh? Stick a DNM preamp on the Crimsons and watch them crucify all comers!

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Thank you Alex for your input. I will find who is the dealer for those Dynavector amps (HX1.2 etc.) in Toronto Canada and go for an audition. I think it is about time for Naim Audio to redesign the NAP250 and 135 lines (may be to implement what they learnt in building the NAP 500P). The 250 and 135 lines are good design but employing 10 years ago design. It seems like their price will not flair well with modern designs from other companies that offer products of better or equal performance grid.

Omer,

Just to put my 2p worth in. I used to own a 250, and trialed 135s and the HX1.2 in my system (CDSII/52/Wilson Benesch Actors).

To my ears the HX1.2 is in a different league. The sound is not the same as Naims, so probably not to everyone's taste. Then again, I have heard this said about the NAP500 as well.

David