Great quotes by politicains, Lyndon B Johnson, Winston Churchill, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL:
(I have great hopes of Obama, if not others).

Do you have hopes for great quotes or for his Presidency?

It is already obvious that his cabinet has no idea of what it's doing other than making sure that government becomes bigger and more controlling and that we become a socialist democratic nation like the rest of Europe. His constant cries of turmoil just put fear in people and then they want to turn to gov't for even more. Exactly what he wants to create.

That's worse than selling government to big business then?

I didn't say that was good either. The fact of the matter is that they are all working in concert together. None of this has anything to do with what the country needs. It's above politicans self serving themselves and their wealthy patrons to the exception of everyone else. The CEOs don't care as long as they get their own money and the politicians want money and power, neither lives in the world that the rest of us do.
In the US last year Congress voted itself a full pension of $180K/yr for serving only one term. Why do they and others even have pensions when the rest of us have to save for ourselves and our employees by the way. None of these people on pensions even pay into the medicare/ss system.

The govt can impose regulations and start hauling all of these guys to jail--everyone one of them. Don't also forget that govt also forced this crisis. While the fat cats took the money the govt was forcing people to lend to people who haad no means of afording their home to begin with. Both sides knew what was going on.

Jaimie,

Have you read Robert Caro's trilogy on LBJ. Really interesting and informative. Waiting for the fourth and final volume. My wife's grandfather and LBJ were schoolboy friends and I've seen pictures with both of them in Stonewall County Texas.

I'm really interested to see Caro's take on the (vice)presidency, civil rights, and Vietnam. The volumes really tell you alot how politics works in this country from elections, congress, the Senate and all of the garbage that goes on. One thing for sure is that nothing in Wahington gets done without an ulterior motive and payoff of some sort. The right thing only gets done when power, politics and money coincide otherwise it's an influence game.

Even the Civil Rights Laws of 1964 only came into being because Johnson could see that there was a political opportunity and a political need to get those Southern Democrats behind the legislation. Prior to that they were staunchly against anything.

Thanks Gary, I will look out for those.

I have read Norman Mailer on 60's US politics, and of course Hunter S Thompson on the end of that era and the next, Tricky Dickie.

I always got the impression that LBJ was Kennedy's 'fixer', the man who made the deals, trading off interests of people in order to get the policies passed. I know the Southern Democrats were not the party for racial change in the 60's, so in a way I admire LBJ more for what he achieved.

I do have hopes for Obama's administration, and don't think a little social democracy would do the US any harm. Roosevelt's social(ist?) policies in a previous time of economic turmoil are a possible framework to base plans on. It will take time to see how this administration does.

I think the US is in better political hands than the UK at the moment. I never trusted Brown, as I always felt he was too close to 'the city', I didn't trust Blair because he was untrustworthy. I trust Cameron less than either of them.

I also don't expect to hear any great quotes from any of those three. Like his policies or not, Obama is a great orator, and may at least grace history with some memorable words.

Actually Jaimie, Roosevelt's New Deal policies did nothing to revive the US economy. They did benefit those individuals who were hired under the various work programs TVA etc... and only because of WWII did the economy improve.

It's those social democratic policies that in addition to "welfare" in the 60s is what's been the greatest burden and expense to our economy over the last 70 years. Unfortunately this has been a huge source of waste and corruption in our country.

While I believe in helping those in need this system has been perpetuated and abused by numerous individuals and the govt. does nothing to stop it. I also know people who live in France, England, Canada and I have had personal experiences with the "Universal" health system in Europe.

Social Democratic programs for the most part don't work, beget more waste than benefit, and ultimately limit access to those same programs because of escalating govt costs which cannot be maintained.

I am more than happy to pay taxes which go towards the common costs of education and healthcare for all. Anything less would be uncivilised. When it comes to other forms of welfare, everything is in the detail of their implementation. To say 'welfare leads to dependency' 'welfare invites abuse''welfare undermines the economy' etc is not enough. You're into a complex discussion of large and detailed canvas.

We should remember - if I'm allowed to express such and unreformedly 'socialist' point of view, that there are large and powerful vested interests whose profits are eroded by any form of welfare provision and we should be wary of repeating the lines they feed us.

David

I think (although I'm open to being corrected) it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said:

"It makes no difference to the outcome whether you are an optimist or a pessimist.
But an optimist enjoys the wait."

David, as a physician I get to see all sides of the issues due to practice demographics. I am well aware of the protests by special interest groups who wish to preserve their economic interests. And yes you are right that all of these things are difficult issues.

I differ with you in certain respects. I do not believe that everyone is entitled to everything just because. I do not think that it is the responsibility of those of us who pay taxes to pay for everything for everybody else. In the US we are close to 50% of all indivduals not paying any taxes and a large proportion of those people are bilking the system.

As I said when the govt pays for everything there will be rationing because there isn't enough money. Universal Health Care for instance is a disaster. Works great if you do not need any care, but if you do--watch out. I have only heard horror stories from the countries I mentioned above. My own experience confirmed what others have told me.

If the US ever develops a nationalized heathcare system here's what will occur. The cost will require the govt to limit payments(which are already ridiculously low and have no bearing on the real costs of doing business). Physicians will be driven to become employees of hospital systems because they will not be able to remain in private practice due to low re-imbursements and the fact that physcian salaries will be limited. These factors will reduce the number of physicians available to provide health care and thus access to care will be severely reduced. Since the govt is paying for everything there will be a rationing of services that the govt will pay for further reducing access to care. Talented people will not go into medicine and we will rely more and more on foreign medical graduates who are willing to work for less money because it is an improvement over where they currently live. This will result in more communication problems and because training in most countries is not up to US standards a decrease in the quality of already limited medical care. Finally a loss of huge numbers of jobs since the private US health care industry is one of the largest employers in the country providing jobs, health care benefits, and retirement benefits for a huge segment of the population. These people will not be able to find jobs in the health care industry because fewer positions will be available. Since in the suburbs of the US many communities and their vitality are tied to the private healthcare industry due to physicians who work and live there and also because their employees also live in the same and other nearby towns etc... A contraction of these jobs will lead to a natural erosion of the communities since fewer people will find work there.

This will be the end result of nationalized healthcare if it is instituted in the US. Talk about the unintended consequences which no one bothers to look at.

Thanks for the replies, but this thread could easily become overcharged with arguments on the effectiveness of different social policies of various administrations.

I hope others out there can post a few gems from their knowledge of great men and women, world leaders, and even sports coaches. LBJ and Winston Churchill are a couple of my favourites. I really should remember some from my field, film directors and actors, when I do I will post them.

Dear Gary,

I entirely accept not only that your view is your view and also that have have the perfect right to hold it and express it.

But I will say that it is a very un-European view, and such views are clearly widespread enough in the US for your health provision to be very different to that which Europeans would want.

There are quite a few things about the US - speaking entirely for myself - that I do not admire and your health provision is one aspect which alone would prevent me from ever wanting to emigrate to your country, or even risk paying it a visit. No doubt the US authorities would take an equally dubious view of any application from me either to emigrate to, or even visit the USA, as no doubt all these internet postings can be traced and recorded by your secret services.

There are many things I do not admire about many other countries in the world, and naming them would not be of much value in this context. I do think it reasonable to say though, as a European, that I can think of no part of the world that I would rather live than old Europe.

_________

On topic.

"Cats look down on you. Dogs look up to you. Only pigs look on you as an equal."

WS Churchill, Prime Minister and Pig Breeder.

ATB from George

Well George all I can say is that I have travelled pretty extensively in Europe and my wife and I love it over there, France especially. Unfortunately, govt controlled social democratic institutions do not work.

You are kidding yourself, if you believe that the curent health care system which you have is what "Europeans" want. This is the way it's been for decades and it's the only system you have lived under. You do not know what it's like to have the alternative. As I said I know many Canadians and Europeans who live under your system and wish that had the access to care that we have in the US.

My wife lived in Rome for a year and was hospitalized. What she experienced was, no clean sheets, food brought in by friends, no medication for fevers, just cold water enemas, and she spent the majority of the time in a hallway.


Last year when we were in France, my wife had severe reflux which caused her heart to slow and she became unresponsive. Since she had been treated empirically for an ulcer, by history, we thought she might have been bleeding. What we experienced was: 45 minutes to an hour for an ambulance to arrive (for a while we were told that there was no ambulance available and no doctor and if they could find a doctor we'd need to have a payment available for him to come), 45 minutes to move her to the ambulance, the first responders who were not allowed to give any medications, put in an intravenous line, all they could legally do was transport her to the urgent care station. Arrival at the care station, physician speaks to me, but dos not examine or treat my wife and leaves her in the ambulance. All that's done is place an IV. 1 hour to decide to then send her to the medical center 30 kilometers away. Arrival at the medical center where she waits in the hallway for 1 1/2 hours to be seen. The major medical center was in worse condition than any major city or county hospital that I trained in. Total time for this ordeal which I had to stand around helplessly and watch was 8 hours. If it turned out that she actually had had a life threatening problem she wouldn't be here today. This would never occur in the US. This is what occurs when the govt controls the health care system and individuals are no rewarded for their hard work. BTW the ER physicians spent a significant time on break sitting in the ambulance garage smoking cigarettes.

Furthermore, the couple who's Chambre d'hote we stayed at were British ex-pats. The husband had had a heart attack while living in England as when they called emergency were told that if an ambulance did not arrive within 30 minutes they should put him in a car and start driving. He was there a week and never had his room cleaned among other things.

The fact is in the US whether you can afford healthcare or not nearly everyone can get the care they need. The US system works because the majority of it is private and for profit so there is an incentive to provide high quality services (necessary ones). I've experienced first hand what happens when it is run the "European"way. In fact my wife and I would love to move to Europe at some point in the future for at least a portion of the year. What worries us is what will happen if we get sick!!!

One of my favorite quotes from anyone, let alone a politician, is by the late US senator Paul Wellstone:

Politics is not about power. Politics is not about money. Politics is not about winning for the sake of winning. Politics is about the improvement of people's lives. It's about advancing the cause of peace and justice in our country and in our world. Politics is about doing well for people.

Best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

The fact is in the US whether you can afford healthcare or not nearly everyone can get the care they need.

Then why is the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA the inability to pay astronomical medical bills?

Fred

Not exactly a quote but this does amuse me somewhat, attributed to Winston Churchill.

I have taken this from that truly excellent book of Political Memoirs by the former BBC Editor, inter alia, John Cole: As It Seemed To Me - well worth reading.

The story quoted is that an army officer was discussing the proposed funeral arrangements with an extremely old WC, expecting the statesman to nod the plans through. However WC asked that the planned route of his cortege be altered so that his coffin left via Waterloo Station rather than Paddington Station (which was the obvious station for the line to Blenheim). However WC knew that there was a connection at Reading and that the jouney could go to plan from there.

In response to the officer's query, WC replied: "Look, if de Gaulle dies before me, we can stick to present arrangements. But if he's to be at the funeral, I want it to pass through Waterloo."

quote:

... I never trusted Brown, as I always felt he was too close to 'the city', I didn't trust Blair because he was untrustworthy. I trust Cameron less than either of them.

I also don't expect to hear any great quotes from any of those three. ...

Oh, I think you're being unfair to both Blair and Brown.

Surely quotes such as: "Education, education, education", "Weapons Of Mass Destruction" and "pretty straight sort of guy" or "End of boom and bust" and "best placed ..." will stay with us for some time yet.

Personally, though, I'm waiting for the most memorable lines: "I'm sorry for ..."

I'm not sure if I can recall any lines by David Cameron, other than perhaps something about "hugging a hoodie" but then I'm not a Tory supporter.

Another Churchill-ism

Sir Stafford Cripps sent for Churchill in the House of Commons, and a messenger was despatched. WC was on the WC as it turned out, and he called out:

"Tell Sir Stafford that I am on the toilet, and I can only deal with one shit at a time."

Sorry to mix real politics with a quote; but given the current climate what the heck.

Winston Chruchill would have said of Gordon Brown

"Success can be measured by the ability to move from one failure to another with no loss of ones enthusiasm"

By this measure Labour are a great success :-)

Harry S Truman coined a few of my favorite phrases:

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

and

"The buck stops here."

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

The fact is in the US whether you can afford healthcare or not nearly everyone can get the care they need.

Then why is the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA the inability to pay astronomical medical bills?

Fred

Fred,

As I made clear in my quote, people get the care they needed at the time. I never said, nor do I believe that it should be free. Bankruptcy laws have been too lenient and continue to be so. We have had people declare bankruptcy who we've treated. In almost all instances these were people who were insured, but were declaring bankruptcy because they ran up credit card bills for irresponsible purchases that they could not afford to pay back and it had nothing to do with their medical bills.

Secondly, how many people who are in the situation you mentioned are in that position because they chose not to buy insurance and went bare. What the supporters of UHC do not ever tell you is that of the $47 million who are uninsured the overwhelming majority are people in the 18-30 age group who are employed and who have CHOSEN not to buy insurance because they'd rather spend their money on alchol, electronics, cigarettes etc...

Finally the costs of health care continue to rise because the govt regulators continue to allow health insurers to raise premiums, raise deductibles, and lower insurance companies co-insurance portion. While the insurance companies continue to say it's because of the physicians charges, that is bogus. Since most physicians are contracted and thus paid a set fee for thier services, raising the fees does nothing to effect what the insurance company pays for that service. It's all a myth, supported by politicians and lobbyists to pull the wool over your eyes. Since I started practice in Illinois in1998 I have seen a 300% increase in my health care costs for premiums/deductibles/ etc... At an average of 2%/yr CPI that should have been a 20% increase.

What's occuring is that the money is not going to Drs., but to insurance company executives and shareholders. Pure greed. Since costs increases have to be approved by the insurance commission in each state who's giving the rubber stamp?

At this point in time because of what you personally have to pay, the 1.2 trillion that insurance companies "spend" each year amounts to nothing more than a return of a portion of their profit and nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:


One of my favorite quotes from anyone, let alone a politician, is by the late US senator Paul Wellstone:

Politics is not about power. Politics is not about money. Politics is not about winning for the sake of winning. Politics is about the improvement of people's lives. It's about advancing the cause of peace and justice in our country and in our world. Politics is about doing well for people.

Best,
Fred

That's a great quote if only it were true. First of all politics is first and foremost about getting re-elected. Everything else is secondary.

Read Robert Caro's trilogy on LBJ or his best book about Robert Moses "The Power Broker" for a real look at what politics really is.

I don't know who first said it, or of whom, although it was relatively recently said of John Howard by Paul Keating, in an Australian election.

"He's like a shiver, looking for a spine to crawl up."

Quite a good put-down.

quote:

"The buck stops here."

I think this long predated Truman. My recollection is that the 'buck' was a buckskin-handled knife handed round groups of American Indians. While a person held the knife, they had to right to speak uninterrupted. It worked just like the 'talking stick' of some other cultures.

Fraser

Gary,

I have no doubt American healthcare is exemplary for those whose insurance is adequate to their needs.

All I can say is your anecdotes are grim, but bear no relation to my experience of the British health service. Similarly I've heard of many individual experiences of the American system which horrified me. Predictably they were mostly examples of denial of service rather than dirty rooms and lengthy waiting times.

As it happens I have often been prescribed medications and even some quite expensive and sophisticated procedures but I have never been given a cold water enema. I have heard that they are more popular on the continent. This is probably less to do with the inadequacies of public funding than with cultural traditions. I expect well heeled Italians in the private wards were paying good money for their enemas and going home happy.

David

They don’t get any better than this.

"It is right for society to bear down on, and deal with, anti-social behaviour that is associated with drinking, But ... it is also right that we do not want the responsible, sensible majority of moderate drinkers to have to pay more, or suffer, as a result of the excesses of a small minority."