Melbourne Grand Prix

These guys live as one family for most of the year, and are mostly good mates. The rivalry you display as fans isn't reflected personally among the drivers, only professionally between the teams and on the track. Drivers move from team to team and leave many good friends amongst mechanics and team members of all team colours.
No-one is intentionally or unintentionally putting another driver in danger, they are all drivers within the circus and are friends (mostly). This isn't football, it's a bit more evolved than pond life.
I have been bored rigid over the past few years and have given up watching, but always at the start of the season watch it just in the hope that it may fire me up again. I miss it.
MS is a brilliant driver, and getting paid over £1m per race, well....he would have an ego, wouldn't he. Anyway, it's self belief that is the mind-set that you need to be a successful driver. You can't be shy and polite now, can you!
I thought the race was OK and for the first time in years, I didn't fall asleep. I really hope we might have a season worth watching.
I was shocked to see Eddie Jordan gone. I wished MS would have spent one season driving for him, just to help out. That would have been interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
This isn't football, it's a bit more evolved than pond life.

And this despite ITV's pathetic attempts to drag the coverage down to this level.

Good point Rasher.

Footballers = pond life - can't argue with that.

Anyone remember Senna? I seem to recall that he wasn’t the nicest bloke on the track, yet he never received the amount of flack Schumacher does.

I watched some of the race in hope and nothing seemed different to the boredom of the last few years, we had a jumbled up grid due to contrivances of the qualifying system (and weather) but nothing has altered the fundamental fact that the cars are too fast, too hard to overtake and appear to be driven by remote control.

I feel no 'connection' with the teams or drivers now. The only races I'll be watching are ones when it rains-at least then you get a glimpse of driver skill.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
The only races I'll be watching are ones when it rains-at least then you get a glimpse of driver skill.

Bruce

Q: And who's the best wet weather driver on the track?

A: Mr Schumacher.

So, a highly talented driver who by all accounts has built a very stable and loyal team around him, with an equally talented strategist planning every race, driving THE most reliable Formula One cars on the track, seems to be winning everything. Well, bugger me, that's just plain WRONG isn't it.

It SHOULD be interesting. A talented driver in a superb car SHOULDN'T be allowed to win all the time. So let's change the rules for the 2004 season to make it harder for him and his team to win everything. Oh bugger, he (and his team mate) still dominated the season. Let's change the rules AGAIN for 2005...

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
Anyone remember Senna? I seem to recall that he wasn’t the nicest bloke on the track, yet he never received the amount of flack Schumacher does.

I think he did. And if he'd won more championships he would have got more flack. Particularly in the present day where the sports media want to sensationalise everything and will put any rent-a-gob in front of a camera if he's got some dirt to dish (or more probably an axe to grind). I think it's more the stupid age in which we live than volume of flack per se.

Cheers

Harry

A re-read of the thread does suggest it's more of a case of "let's knock the bloke that keeps winning"! Sorry to HTK and cunningplan if you felt my earlier attack was directed at you - my intention was not to single anyone out in particular. It's certainly true that Schumacher is an incredibly talented driver, as was Senna, and in saying that he does tend to push the rules to the limit on ocasion, as Senna did. There's no denying, however, that there are times when he unquestionably blows the competition away, like in one of last year's races his driving in the wet which was masterful.

quote:

I guess Schumacher is arrogant. He was probably arrogant when he was go-karting too. I don't see how its possible to win in motor racing unless possessed of a large ego and an unassailable sense of it being your absolute right to win and this must be especially true of Formula One.

Hmmm, not something you would accuse, Fangio, Moss, Hill (both), Villeneuve (Gille) or Prost of?

Senna had his faults but Shumacher has taken it to new heights, a couple of times when under pressure for a world championship, rather than raise his game and win on the track he has seemed uncomposed and lost, ultimately resorting to dubious tactics when being passed. That is why he will never be a GREAT driver in my eyes.

That signature 'chop' across the pack at the start just changed the rules. Drivers used to race with 'gentlemens agreement' but as the sport has gotten safer and more commercial, HUGE amounts of money are at stake, so the unspoken rules have changed. That is progress I suppose.

Still there is always Goodwood....

Andy

BTW if your inclined check out Dijon 1979 the video clips say it all.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy Kirby:

quote:

I guess Schumacher is arrogant. He was probably arrogant when he was go-karting too. I don't see how its possible to win in motor racing unless possessed of a large ego and an unassailable sense of it being your absolute right to win and this must be especially true of Formula One.

Hmmm, not something you would accuse, Fangio, Moss, Hill (both), Villeneuve (Gille) or Prost of?

Good point. I guess that, as a fan of Ferrari, I excuse Schumacher for his arrogance too easily.

Deane

JonR said

quote:

A re-read of the thread does suggest it's more of a case of "let's knock the bloke that keeps winning"! Sorry to HTK and cunningplan if you felt my earlier attack was directed at you

No need to apologise Jon I didn't see it as an attack on myself. I was just trying to point out it's not how many you win, it's how you win.
I think a lot of F1 fans would like to see some consistent competition against him, as there was when Senna and Prost raced each other.
He's not had ONE driver that's done it year in year out, it's been different drivers for limited periods, Hakkinen, Hill, Raikkonen etc.

As I mentioned earlier put him under pressure, and he does make mistakes, he has had it easy over the years. Perhaps it'll be different this year, but I won't hold my breath.

Regards
Clive

It's not a case of knocking a winner. MS has several times now moved over dangerously at the start, pushed others off and taken others out . It's always their fault though and never his. Is it a divine right to win? He seems to think so I and many others don't.

Howard

quote:

Is it a divine right to win?

No of course not. It's more a sheer desire to win and with that in mind I don't see how Schumacher is different to any other driver on the track. What's the point of getting all the way into Formula One if you didn't want to win? Now, it's how that desire manifests itself which is open to question. Arguably, Schumacher is prepared to, and is probably more adept at, taking the rules to their absolute limit and even breaking them in order to win. I suspect if his manoeuvre into Heidfeld's car was legal, many other drivers would indulge in such practices if they thought it would help them to win.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
It's not a case of knocking a winner. MS has several times now moved over dangerously at the start, pushed others off and taken others out . It's always their fault though and never his.

so have many others and my question still remains unanswered, why is it only Schumi that cops the flack for this? If you think it is bad to drive in this manner (and note I'm not saying it's not) then shouldn't any driver that behaves this way be held accountable?

Remember Hakkinen? World champ for a couple of years, but the nicest genuine bloke you could ever wish to meet. Lovely guy. But where is he now? Once the hunger went, he was hopeless. Still a nice guy though.
Senna was always being slagged for the championship he won by taking out Prost, and MS copied that move when he did Damon Hill, which was expected by the team and sponsers. So MS keeps motivated and hasn't lost interest yet, but he shouldn't be criticised for that. And as for saying he will never be a great driver....well. Even my mother would have to admit that he is one of the greatest drivers ever.
This isn't the golden age of Goodwood, Stirling Moss & Graham Hill. It isn't larking about with James Hunt driving races pissed from the night before. It is a big money business and very cut-throat. It's just the way it is these days and MS can't be blamed for making it that way.
Changing the rules every year just to stop one man is boosting this guys ego like nothing else. Well, it would, wouldn't it! It still takes another driver to beat him, and there still is no-one better, so he'll win again whatever the rules - as long as they apply to everyone.
They'll have to kill him to save the sport.

Should I have said MS consistantly etc....

H

No offense taken here Jon. Any flack directed at any driver makes no difference. It's the steward's decisions that count - and no one was penalised on Sunday, so that's that.

And whilst we're on the subject of Melbourne, let's hear it for Narain Karthikeyan. Am I the only one who thought his Q1 hot lap was nothing short of fantastic?

Cheers

Harry

F1 is not Sport: Basta:


Fritz Von I like Top Gear though ?

quote:

And whilst we're on the subject of Melbourne, let's hear it for Narain Karthikeyan. Am I the only one who thought his Q1 hot lap was nothing short of fantastic?

Not at all, a very impressive debut.

Also, well done Rubens, my tip for the Drivers Championship!

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
Also, well done Rubens, my tip for the Drivers Championship!

So he's got a new contract?

quote:

So he's got a new contract?

That made me giggle

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
F1 is not Sport: Basta:


Fritz Von I like Top Gear though ?

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. -Ernest Hemingway

(BTW, I hate bull-fighting with a perfect hatred. It is cruelty.)

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
F1 is not Sport: Basta:


Fritz Von I like Top Gear though ?

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. -Ernest Hemingway

(BTW, I hate bull-fighting with a perfect hatred. It is cruelty.)

What with our Ernie having a penchant for a swift half now and again, I would put his world class drinking skills up there as number 4 !

Fritz Von Pernod & Southern Comfort please John
heavy on the garlic

Gentlemen..............
start your armchairs!
Here in Italy Ferrari has become an obsession!
There's ferrari everywhere...in the news, in the newspapers, magazines.
Shumaker (or how the hell it's the name) started speakin' italian after years!
When he realized he was workin here.

Gianluigi Von South and Comfort - no ice, frozen glass please!

A bit of La Fee absynthe would be liked as well.

Gianluigi,

Still, you must be happy for your compatriot Giancarlo Fisichella who won the first race, even though he drives for Renault...!

Cheers,

Jon